Am I doing something wrong?

[longview]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

5 hours ago, longview said:

God sees the heart and the mind AND knows MORE than you know about yourself.

I hear this a lot but experience hasn’t borne this out in my experience.

Your experience? Are you claiming you know what God knows? Not during mortalityj!

[Calm]

1 minute ago, longview said:

Your experience? Are you claiming you know what God knows? Not during mortalityj!

And that is an issue since anyone can claim God knows, but there is no way to prove it in mortality.

Edited April 13 by Calm

[longview]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

If only they put as much energy into the science and being accurate as they do the propaganda 

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

[Calm]

15 hours ago, longview said:

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

Right….maybe if I was a democrat or admire the Kennedys or knew nothing of how actual scientific research is done, that might be persuasive….(but probably not….I feel the need to add this because of the good democrats I have known and here I mean good as in morality and righteousness, not good for the Party).

In regards to the first two points…I am not and do not.  Never have been, never did.  Quite the opposite for the second point, in fact.

In regards to the last….”research” is not a magic word bestowing authority on whatever it labels.  There are standards for determining credible research.  There are websites of people who have spent decades researching and proving to their own satisfaction the earth is flat.  Do you think I should see their many years of research as trustworthy and relevant to actual science just because of the time they put into it?  Do you think actual democrats think that way?  If so, you need to get out and meet more people. 
 

PS:  I really hope you were being sarcastic, perhaps you were actually thinking of a shared joke (as in you find the MAHA leadership problematic and contradictory—saying one thing and doing another—as well).

Edited April 13 by Calm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, longview said:

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

I should support him because he was related to someone? That is just stupid. Also the idea that the Democratic party is full of people I should deeply trust and respect due to affiliation? What? Why would I do that? That is cult leader type thinking.

Also he is a lawyer, not an expert in medicine. And his stance on vaccines is contributing to all the lovely measles outbreaks my state is experiencing. I guess we are too stupid to look at history and see how bad diseases can be. We forgot they were bad and have to try them again just to see what happens.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Also he is a lawyer, not an expert in medicine

And so not in nutrition.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

And so not in nutrition.

Or even basic health stuff like dead body disposal. He left that dead bear cub in Central Park.

[Calm]

51 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Or even basic health stuff like dead body disposal. He left that dead bear cub in Central Park.

Quote

"I wasn't drinking, of course, but people were drinking with me who thought this was a good idea," Kennedy said. "So we went and did that and we thought it would be amusing for whoever found it, or something."

Somehow I had missed this one…and his excuse and reasoning is as believable and as sound as ever. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/05/nx-s1-5063939/rfk-jr-central-park-bear-bicycle

Edited April 13 by Calm

[MustardSeed]

11 hours ago, longview said:

RFK jr is a scion in the Democrat party. You should trust him and his many years of research.

I’m surprised by this comment.  I’m more D leading than R but even I have instincts to ignore his opinions. By the way I’m a great granddaughter to the Snelgrove ice cream founder- AND a life long member of the Church of a Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints - what can you trust about me? (Nothing.  I dislike ice cream) 

[BlueDreams]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

I really miss mushrooms, onions, garlic, chocolate, and wheat (can manage sourdough bread, it’s the sugars, not the gluten).  But so much less problems with stomach and gut that I am not the least bit tempted….just in mourning.  Thank goodness green onions work okay, but hing does not satisfy the garlic craving.  Besides waffles, I can do without wheat as corn and rice flour work great.

But mushrooms 😭

I wish there was some way to remove pressure changes from my life like food.

Weird thought, have you tried garlic chives? They're easy to grown and really do have a garlic taste to them. 

 

There's no goodd substitute for mushrooms though 😕

Edited April 13 by BlueDreams

[Calm]

I have grown garlic chives and they do have a garlicky taste, they got dug up though when we put in a deck.  Thanks for reminding me.     Now I know what’s going in the planter.

Edited April 13 by Calm

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

Somehow I had missed this one…and his excuse and reasoning is as believable and as sound as ever. 
 

https://www.npr.org/2024/08/05/nx-s1-5063939/rfk-jr-central-park-bear-bicycle

The wrong Kennedy survived.

[longview]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

what can you trust about me? (Nothing.  I dislike ice cream) 

Oh? Were you force-fed Snelgroves before bedtime?          ----------(just kidding)---------

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, longview said:

Your experience? Are you claiming you know what God knows? Not during mortalityj!

It doesn’t seem like whomever is running this show knows me very well. You can argue that God does know me super well and is playing some kind of long game but I like to think that an omniscient and omnipotent God that wanted to communicate that He knows me well would find a way to do it so that I would recognize since He, you know, knows me better than I do. If I don’t recognize it is that really some kind of defect in me?

[longview]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It doesn’t seem like whomever is running this show knows me very well. You can argue that God does know me super well and is playing some kind of long game but I like to think that an omniscient and omnipotent God that wanted to communicate that He knows me well would find a way to do it so that I would recognize since He, you know, knows me better than I do. If I don’t recognize it is that really some kind of defect in me?

A very petulant post. Sounds kind of whiney. The Second Estate: make of it however you want to proceed. Rejecting the power of the Atonement will afford a different path for you.

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, longview said:

A very petulant post. Sounds kind of whiney.

A nice label that allows you to dismiss it without considering what it might be like not to feel a connection with God.

I am not impressed by the depth of your analysis or empathy.

BTW, I don’t believe one has to agree with someone to be empathetic or to show it, even though it can be more difficult if you don’t.

Edited April 13 by Calm

[longview]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

A nice label that allows you to dismiss it without considering what it might be like not to feel a connection with God.

I am not impressed by the depth of your analysis or empathy.

Forgive me for becoming jaded with his constant drumbeat of negativity and unending rupture of victim classes and outrage at how awful and unjust mortal experiences are. Frequently pontificating on how God is just NOT proceeding with his expectations.

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, longview said:

A very petulant post. Sounds kind of whiney. The Second Estate: make of it however you want to proceed. Rejecting the power of the Atonement will afford a different path for you.

Yes, and this is why a lot of people leave. It doesn’t seem to be working and they are told the problem is really with them.

But really, I am not upset over my life and that is not why I am doubting. My life has never been that great. i am used to a degree of misery and frustration and having to fight my own brain chemistry and deal with feeling like an outsider looking in. I have become less convinced that the gospel is suddenly going to reverse that either before or after death or that this process was somehow “refining” me.

13 minutes ago, Calm said:

A nice label that allows you to dismiss it without considering what it might be like not to feel a connection with God.

I have felt a sublime connection to God in the past. I even have experiences where I feel that sublime euphoria and connection sometimes now. I am just not convinced it is from God and I have read up on enough mystical experiences from all kinds of cultures and faiths that sound similar that I have a hard time accepting that these are an indicator of some eternal objective truth.

Edited April 13 by The Nehor

[Calm]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, and this is why a lot of people leave. It doesn’t seem to be working and they are told the problem is really with them.

But really, I am not upset over my life and that is not why I am doubting. My life has never been that great. i am used to a degree of misery and frustration and having to fight my own brain chemistry and deal with feeling like an outsider looking in. I have become less convinced that the gospel is suddenly going to reverse that either before or after death or that this process was somehow “refining” me.

I have felt a sublime connection to God in the past. I even have experiences where I feel that sublime euphoria and connection sometimes now. I am just not convinced it is from God and I have read up on enough mystical experiences from all kinds of cultures and faiths that sound similar that I have a hard time accepting that these are an indicator of some eternal objective truth.

For me, it is very understandable why people doubt once they know how the brain operates, what different chemicals can make you feel when nothing else really changes as far as one can tell. 

I feel lucky that even experiencing this chaos, I still interpret how I feel as a connection from God, but that’s my choice and it is because it works for me, makes my life better.  I know others’ lives aren’t affected the same way.  It doesn’t help them make sense of the chaos, but makes it all more confusing.  

If God is supposed to be a God of order and the order is not there to be seen, is it surprising that some conclude that means God doesn’t exist?  St least not in the way some are saying he does.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, longview said:

Forgive me for becoming jaded with his constant drumbeat of negativity and unending rupture of victim classes and outrage at how awful and unjust mortal experiences are. Frequently pontificating on how God is just NOT proceeding with his expectations.

Most of my friends think I am pretty optimistic. Also what is an “unending rupture of victim classes”?

The idea that mortal experiences are awful and unjust is weird? Has your life truly been that great? 

Warning: Vulgar language around one of the most empathetic things I have heard directed at those who are tired of living and want to give up. I send this to people who are struggling with their life and it usually makes them feel seen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sh7QWBb2U2A

And yeah, while my life is not particularly good I know a lot of people who have it much much worse and have endured things that probably would have broken me completely. So yeah, I question why God decided to give them these horrific scars that may never heal. It is called empathy. Then again I heard that got reclassified as sin in large parts of our culture.

When Dante went down into hell his humanity led him to feel empathy and pity for those being tormented. Then he corrected himself when his guide Virgil told him that his pity and empathy were misplaced as showing empathy was sin because the damned deserved that punishment and wishing it was not this way was questioning the judgement of God. Really really messed up stuff and it is still amongst us and not just towards the dead. Also to the “unending rupture of victim classes” which I assume means…..victims?

Edited April 14 by The Nehor

[Calm]

7 hours ago, longview said:

Forgive me for becoming jaded

Do you really want me to or are you being purely sarcastic?

Edited April 14 by Calm

[Tony uk]

I have always felt that people have an image of God, and appearance of Charlton Heston with a grey beard and hair, along with the voice of Morgan Freeman. This with the expectation that God will intervene as in Biblical times. As I have grown older, I have felt God intervenes in a way suitable to the time. A bit like a sculptor working on a project. At the start, big chunks being cut off, and along the way chiseling less to get to the finished article. At a time when God made big incursions into the world, maybe in the present time, God still intervenes, but possibly in a less noticeable way. 

For myself, when facing personal concerns and I have prayed to God for help. Assistance may come through the help and/or guidance of other people. Alternatively, the normal process of events may take a turn where I can overcome the difficulties that I face. So maybe God like the sculptor is gently chipped away, without any grand gesture. God, through the Holy Spirit maybe guiding us, and sometimes through other people. When people, through relationships, family, friends, workplace. Are facing difficulties, as problematic as it maybe. Need to understand the other person position, and work together through the issue.

Sometime, people, may walk away from their church, because of issues they feel strongly about. Unfortunately, walking away still leaves the issue there. I prefer to face whatever issues, and try to work on the issue to influence for the better.

 The thing is, have faith in God. He's been around for a long time, and knows what he is doing. Just trust in him.

[3DOP]

20 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Yes, and this is why a lot of people leave. It doesn’t seem to be working and they are told the problem is really with them.

But really, I am not upset over my life and that is not why I am doubting. My life has never been that great. i am used to a degree of misery and frustration and having to fight my own brain chemistry and deal with feeling like an outsider looking in. I have become less convinced that the gospel is suddenly going to reverse that either before or after death or that this process was somehow “refining” me.

I have felt a sublime connection to God in the past. I even have experiences where I feel that sublime euphoria and connection sometimes now. I am just not convinced it is from God and I have read up on enough mystical experiences from all kinds of cultures and faiths that sound similar that I have a hard time accepting that these are an indicator of some eternal objective truth.

Hello, The Nehor. I was thinking I should hear from you in another place. I now see you have been keeping busy. No worries. No obligation. 

There is no question that the presence of God in our lives is rather subtle to say the least. In my tradition, the greatest saints experienced long periods where they were feeling dry and desolate. There is a story in John 4 (I know, its too late, heh.) where Jesus meets a woman at a well and they get to talking. One of the things Jesus brings up, is that His Father seeks those who worship Him "in spirit and in truth". What does that mean? Catholics teach that God is actually an immaterial reality. Jesus says to her that God is a spirit. Maybe that has something to do with it?

But you don't have to believe as Catholics do about God being without a body. Either way, God is in any tangible, material sense, hidden from us. Seldom does anyone in any tradition have continual visions of God with their eyes or hearing His voice with their ears. It is difficult for material beings to worship or feel communion with anyone that is for whatever reason, beyond our sense experience. 

I agree with you, The Nehor, about feelings. But I would say that if we need to make sure not to trust our sublime feelings of connection with God, neither should we trust our low feelings of separation from God. Today is one of those days. I forced my way through my morning prayer routine, asking God to help me to pray. Sometimes that "works", in that I get elevated feelings, but not always and not today. I got a text message a little while after that asking if anybody could take a holy hour at noon. At our parish, we have a schedule so that someone keeps our Lord company in the Blessed Sacrament chapel 24/7 where even though we believe Jesus is really present, He still looks like bread! God is still hiding. So I am retired, and I volunteered, although I didn't want to then and still don't when it is less than an hour away. I don't know if I will feel better afterwards or not. I hope so. I love elevated feelings. However, I knew from experience I should do it. I have a little sense of gladness that I obeyed my conscience. I would be feeling even more troubled if I had not volunteered.

What I think I am learning is that God is more concerned with what we do than how we feel. Maybe it is meritorious to ignore our down times as well as our high times? I think our God would love to let us have sublime feelings all the time. What can happen though, is that we might start thinking that we are hot stuff for God. Humility can be diminished. Down feelings? Spiritual poverty can be a tool to help me be more resolute in doing the big and little things that I don't want to do. I hate it when I feel miserable. For me, disorder, and not keeping my schedule, almost invariably brings me down.

Sometimes just returning to my schedule brings me out of the dumps. I suppose I should try that, huh? Whatever our individual inclinations, we need to recognize our feelings in a peaceful and serene manner, remembering that our downs are as temporary as our ups and vice versa. I am thinking that to maintain our faiths, it can help to recognize that the feelings we don't want and feelings we do want are permitted by God for our good.   

If feelings can be ignored are they therefore unimportant? That is impossible for us up and down creatures. We should try to understand the effect they should and should not have on us for good or bad. But if we have trust that God loves us, in times of seeming desolation or exaltation, we should view them as instruments of grace from God, allowed for the supreme purpose of helping us learn best what it means to worship God in spirit and in truth. Like seemingly everything else with God it is not immediately apparent what that means or how to do it. Does the problem of God's apparent, and I believe, very real hiddenness mean He doesn't care if we fail or not? That can't be it. Look at what He does for us if we believe He came and died for us. Or look at what He does for us placing us in a world that is so full of things great and small that we humans perceive as beautiful.

I think God has a truly patient concern that for the most part we grow and develop step by little step. If it were for our good, I believe God would appear to us openly. For reasons my poor intellect can't clearly grasp, I believe God's hiddeness is for our good, even if doesn't always please us. I am happy to believe He loves all of us and isn't finished with any of us. Yes. I believe in love. And what a wonder, I think almost anyone can figure out what that means. St. Augustine had a saying. "Love and do what you will." That almost sounds like John Lennon. Love is all we need? If we have love we should guard it as our treasure and try to make every conscious act, out of love for God or neighbor.

I am just offering all this as suggestions. The whole rambling post is for what its worth only. I hope it is a help to anyone. Hey, that ain't a bad motive! Hehe. Feelings are on the way back up! My apologies for that embarrassing stream of consciousness. It seems like it could help without trying to impress anybody. You shouldn't be impressed. I am anything but impressive and I can prove it by warning you that if anyone is impressed, I will be on the way to believing you. Yeah. That is what I am really and truly like. I am as ridiculous as they come. But I am sure glad to believe in love.

Regards to all,

3DOP

Edited April 14 by 3DOP

[manol]

On 4/9/2026 at 12:52 AM, Maestrophil said:

so what do you and others here think of members buying alcohol for someone at dinner or as a gift?  And even if it is a gray area, is it severe enough in your minds to constitute a moral failure?  

On 4/10/2026 at 12:03 PM, Maestrophil said:

^^^^^

This is really what I wanted to ask here...

 

This is just my opinion of course, and it's not a response to that particular question; rather, it's a response to what I think the bigger question is: 

Your relationship with your wife is far, far, far more important than whether you are "right" or she is "right".  Even if all the replies in this thread were unanimous as to "who is right", that information doesn't really heal anything, does it?  The "healing the relationship" part still has to happen. 

People vastly more wise than me have commented on how to start the conversation that will lead to healing the relationship, so I'll just toss this out:

Imo it is the responsibility of whoever is the most sane in the moment to take the first steps towards peace and healing.  

(Jesus did not say "Blessed are those who are always right".  He said "Blessed are the peacemakers.")

Edited April 14 by manol

[The Nehor]

5 hours ago, 3DOP said:

Hello, The Nehor. I was thinking I should hear from you in another place. I now see you have been keeping busy. No worries. No obligation. 

There is no question that the presence of God in our lives is rather subtle to say the least. In my tradition, the greatest saints experienced long periods where they were feeling dry and desolate. There is a story in John 4 (I know, its too late, heh.) where Jesus meets a woman at a well and they get to talking. One of the things Jesus brings up, is that His Father seeks those who worship Him "in spirit and in truth". What does that mean? Catholics teach that God is actually an immaterial reality. Jesus says to her that God is a spirit. Maybe that has something to do with it?

But you don't have to believe as Catholics do about God being without a body. Either way, God is in any tangible, material sense, hidden from us. Seldom does anyone in any tradition have continual visions of God with their eyes or hearing His voice with their ears. It is difficult for material beings to worship or feel communion with anyone that is for whatever reason, beyond our sense experience. 

I agree with you, The Nehor, about feelings. But I would say that if we need to make sure not to trust our sublime feelings of connection with God, neither should we trust our low feelings of separation from God. Today is one of those days. I forced my way through my morning prayer routine, asking God to help me to pray. Sometimes that "works", in that I get elevated feelings, but not always and not today. I got a text message a little while after that asking if anybody could take a holy hour at noon. At our parish, we have a schedule so that someone keeps our Lord company in the Blessed Sacrament chapel 24/7 where even though we believe Jesus is really present, He still looks like bread! God is still hiding. So I am retired, and I volunteered, although I didn't want to then and still don't when it is less than an hour away. I don't know if I will feel better afterwards or not. I hope so. I love elevated feelings. However, I knew from experience I should do it. I have a little sense of gladness that I obeyed my conscience. I would be feeling even more troubled if I had not volunteered.

What I think I am learning is that God is more concerned with what we do than how we feel. Maybe it is meritorious to ignore our down times as well as our high times? I think our God would love to let us have sublime feelings all the time. What can happen though, is that we might start thinking that we are hot stuff for God. Humility can be diminished. Down feelings? Spiritual poverty can be a tool to help me be more resolute in doing the big and little things that I don't want to do. I hate it when I feel miserable. For me, disorder, and not keeping my schedule, almost invariably brings me down.

Sometimes just returning to my schedule brings me out of the dumps. I suppose I should try that, huh? Whatever our individual inclinations, we need to recognize our feelings in a peaceful and serene manner, remembering that our downs are as temporary as our ups and vice versa. I am thinking that to maintain our faiths, it can help to recognize that the feelings we don't want and feelings we do want are permitted by God for our good.   

If feelings can be ignored are they therefore unimportant? That is impossible for us up and down creatures. We should try to understand the effect they should and should not have on us for good or bad. But if we have trust that God loves us, in times of seeming desolation or exaltation, we should view them as instruments of grace from God, allowed for the supreme purpose of helping us learn best what it means to worship God in spirit and in truth. Like seemingly everything else with God it is not immediately apparent what that means or how to do it. Does the problem of God's apparent, and I believe, very real hiddenness mean He doesn't care if we fail or not? That can't be it. Look at what He does for us if we believe He came and died for us. Or look at what He does for us placing us in a world that is so full of things great and small that we humans perceive as beautiful.

I think God has a truly patient concern that for the most part we grow and develop step by little step. If it were for our good, I believe God would appear to us openly. For reasons my poor intellect can't clearly grasp, I believe God's hiddeness is for our good, even if doesn't always please us. I am happy to believe He loves all of us and isn't finished with any of us. Yes. I believe in love. And what a wonder, I think almost anyone can figure out what that means. St. Augustine had a saying. "Love and do what you will." That almost sounds like John Lennon. Love is all we need? If we have love we should guard it as our treasure and try to make every conscious act, out of love for God or neighbor.

I am just offering all this as suggestions. The whole rambling post is for what its worth only. I hope it is a help to anyone. Hey, that ain't a bad motive! Hehe. Feelings are on the way back up! My apologies for that embarrassing stream of consciousness. It seems like it could help without trying to impress anybody. You shouldn't be impressed. I am anything but impressive and I can prove it by warning you that if anyone is impressed, I will be on the way to believing you. Yeah. That is what I am really and truly like. I am as ridiculous as they come. But I am sure glad to believe in love.

Regards to all,

3DOP

It is more that I am saying that I don’t trust the sublime times or the down times any more and decided to try to figure out God or the lack thereof by other means becuase, as you said, good times and bad times both come and go. The quantity of bad times presents problems for an especially benevolent God existing but by itself it isn’t that conclusive.