Women are given priesthood power and authority

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

And you get even worse. Non LDS ritual is for show and outward appearance and doesn’t have spiritual meaning or purpose?

Who are you to judge what non LDS ritual means to those who participate in it?

You must have liked that “playing church” comment guy. 

When that young Catholic priest said to me "Sure, it's all the same, anyway", and allowed me to speak from the sanctuary,  a "Mormon Bishop" at my mom's funeral, I suddenly got it.

The sign of the cross has GREAT parallels with some of our temple practices, garments vs vestments, kneeling and standing, even architecture- but few see this, since it is not easy to live both a Catholic and LDS life at the same time.

And I am sure that most Catholics AND most LDS would see those statements as sheer blasphemy, if spoken by someone from the "other side"

THAT'S it from both sides, right there.

And that young priest was born in India, so I am sure that mentally he was not just including LDS and Catholics in the statement.

Circumambulating the Stupa.

Awe before God is spoken in many languages

And ultimately that is why we are Universalists.  "Every knee shall bow and tongue confess"....

and on it goes.

edit:

All: Here, check this out and see  if something rings a bell...

https://www.esamskriti.com/e/Spirituality/Philosophy/Stupa-and-Linga-are-forms-of-the-TRUTH--1.aspx

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by mfbukowski

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

So there’s no difference between LDS women and the Relief Society? I mean, is it possible to be an LDS woman and not be in the Relief Society?

 

Nope.  It is the women's organization of the church and every adult baptized female member is considered to be a part of it.  It's motto is "Charity never faileth".

Edited March 21, 2024 by bluebell

[bluebell]

16 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

I don't how many have had the time to look over the full talk by Pres Dennis. I decided to do so this morning and it both clarified in some ways what she was getting at and was still concerning in other aspects. 

The full quote comes in the context of her talking about how she wasn't really aware of how she utilized P. Authority for decades. The full paragraph that's being summarized goes like this (basically): 

"There’s no org that I know of that has broadly given power and authority to women. There are religions that ordain some women to positions such as priests and pastors. But very few relative to the number of women in their congregations receive that authority that their church gives them. By contrast all women over 18 in the COJOLDS are endowed with priesthood power directly from God. And for whatever calling we have, we’re given priesthood authority to fulfill those responsibilities."

 

 

These were my general thoughts...

With luv,

BD

I don't understand what she meant by the bolded statement above.  What are your thoughts on how a woman is suddenly endowed with priesthood power when she turns 18?  From what I understand, our teachings are that women are endowed with priesthood power in the temple (which is not something that happens to every woman when she turns 18), or are delegated access to that power and authority by one who holds keys when set apart for a calling (something that also doesn't doesn't happen to every woman when she turns 18).

Is she saying that there is an endowment of priesthood power that comes from being a member of the RS?

[BlueDreams]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't understand what she meant by the bolded statement above.  What are your thoughts on how a woman is suddenly endowed with priesthood power when she turns 18?  From what I understand, our teachings are that women are endowed with priesthood power in the temple (which is not something that happens to every woman when she turns 18), or are delegated access to that power and authority by one who holds keys when set apart for a calling (something that also doesn't doesn't happen to every woman when she turns 18).

Is she saying that there is an endowment of priesthood power that comes from being a member of the RS?

I think I messed up the quote a little. The context was those endowed in the temple. But I botched it a little. 

But that still ignores and many many women are not endowed straight at 18. There's far more than there used to be, but it's by no means a universal thing.

 

With luv, 

BD

Edited March 21, 2024 by BlueDreams

[bluebell]

Just now, BlueDreams said:

I think I messed up the quote a little. The context was those endowed in the temple. But I botched it a little. 

But that still ignores and many many women are not endowed straight at 18. 

Got it.  Yes, very few girls are endowed that young (but more than used to be so that's a good change).

[Calm]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

This is quite the judgement of the heart and intentions of people who attend high church services. I’m calling you out on it. 

You should.  People need to pay attention to not only what their words say to them, but what they will likely convey to others.

Edited March 21, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, webbles said:

I was hoping that after we finished the series on the prophets, we would switch to a series on the Relief Society presidents.  I think it would be pretty cool to have a book for each of the Relief Society presidents.

It would have, wouldn’t it.  Even just a month on each.

https://history.churchofjesuschrist.org/collection/the-story-of-relief-society/presidents/relief-society-presidents?lang=eng

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by Calm

[Calm]

9 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

From the article in the OP:

“The Relief Society — one of the world’s oldest and largest service organizations”

Can I CFR this? I don’t see the Relief Society on any list I’ve googled, including top 100 lists. 

Saints love their unique definitions.  

Others see it as a religious/Christian organization for women.  Since it does not only do service, it seems a bit odd to label it as a service organization to me, especially since many of the women involved don’t actively do service (help out perhaps through fast offerings, but a lot don’t even attend church).  And while it may be voluntary to belong to the Church, female members after a certain age automatically get assigned to RS whether we want to or not (one can refuse the Priesthood).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Christian_women's_organizations

Perhaps it is seen as a service organization because church leaders see service as its primary purpose.  Seems to me at this point, religious education is its primary purpose though.  In the past service was much more obvious a part of its work.  They still have significant service projects though.  I just got an email last week requesting help for a husband in the ward who needed someone to sit with his terminal wife while he did errands. There are the dinners provided for funerals and additional help as needed.  Help with moves and cleaning.  They do kits for homeless or disaster areas at the Saturday local conferences usually.  Our ward gets assigned a couple of months out of the year to help with supplies for a local food bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Service_club

Quote

A service club or service organization is a voluntary nonprofit organization where members meet regularly to perform charitable works either by direct hands-on efforts or by raising money for other organizations. A service club is defined firstly by its service mission and secondly by its membership benefits, such as social occasions, networking, and personal growth opportunities that encourage involvement.[1][page needed]

Service organizations are not necessarily exclusive of ideological motives, although organizations with such defined motives are more likely to identify themselves through their association. Much like the historical religious organizations that formed the basis for many societal institutions, such as hospitals, service organizations perform many essential services for their community and other worthy causes. In the United States, some of these clubs usually also have a component club organization that is a tax exempt 501(c)(3)nonprofit organization.

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by Calm

[CV75]

17 hours ago, JAHS said:

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/power-of-covenant-keeping-women-celebrated-during-worldwide-relief-society-anniversary-devotional

"Sister Dennis (First Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency)said she knows of no other religious organization in the world that has so broadly given power and authority to women. “All women 18 years and older in the Church of Jesus Christ who choose a covenant relationship with God in the house of the Lord are endowed with priesthood power directly from God. "

“And as we serve in whatever calling or assignment, including ministering assignments, we are given priesthood authority to carry out those responsibilities. My dear sisters, you belong to a Church which offers all its women priesthood power and authority from God,” 

I understand having priesthood authority to perform certain callings (especially in the Temple) but where does the priesthood power come in to play? I guess it depends on how one defines "power"

Yes, I think it depends on the definition of "power," but generally the intersection of a person's faith and righteousness and God's will and grace results in priesthood power.

So this also depends on the definition of "priesthood," since it means the power of God given to people. There are many contexts to this, ranging from the light of Christ to the Holy Priesthood, after the Order of the Son of God and the Church of the Firstborn. This allows that both unordained and ordained people in and out of our Church to have priesthood power, recognizing that the contexts and effects differ.

[JAHS]

10 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

What could this mean?

What is power?

How do we know what is God's power anyway?  Lightning bolts?

This goes back to my original question. Are priesthood power and authority the same thing? Authority to me means you have been given the right by God to perform certain ordinances.
It seems to me that's all you need. Or is the "power" the force that causes the thing to happen that you have been authorized to do? That's why it seems to me that the power is what causes a person to be healed when given a priesthood blessing. 

[Rain]

50 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

So there’s no difference between LDS women and the Relief Society? I mean, is it possible to be an LDS woman and not be in the Relief Society?

 

To add to what others have said, unless it has changed, women under 18 also become a part of RS when they get pregnant and/or married.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

A lot of people don’t realize this, but you can get all of the talks from past relief Society presidents and other sisters right on the gospel library app for free. It’s been there for a few years, but I don’t remember when it was actually released. It’s called “at the pulpit“ and you find it under the adults tab, and then the women’s tab.

I thought it was awesome that the church provided that resource but I wish they would do something with it actually in church. I don’t know what they would do though.

Their books have been popular sellers at Deseretbook and other church bookstores as well in the past.

[telnetd]

35 minutes ago, bluebell said:

From what I understand, our teachings are that women are endowed with priesthood power in the temple (which is not something that happens to every woman when she turns 18), or are delegated access to that power and authority by one who holds keys when set apart for a calling (something that also doesn't doesn't happen to every woman when she turns 18).

What does the Book of Mormon teach about women and priesthood authority due them?

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, telnetd said:

What does the Book of Mormon teach about women and priesthood authority due them?

I don't think it teaches anything specific about women and the priesthood.

Edited March 21, 2024 by bluebell

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think it teachings anything specific about women and the priesthood.

This is how bad I am, does the BoM even mention the Priesthood much at all?

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I mean, is it possible to be an LDS woman and not be in the Relief Society?

No.  If you are a woman over 18 your are a member of the Relief Society.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This is how bad I am, does the BoM even mention the Priesthood much at all?

It doesn't ever use the term priesthood but the need for/existence of the power and authority from God is throughout the book.

Here is an article that gives an overview of it.

https://knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org/knowhy/what-does-the-book-of-mormon-teach-about-the-priesthood#:~:text=The importance of the priesthood,to perform sacred priesthood ordinances.

 

[telnetd]

23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I don't think it teaches anything specific about women and the priesthood.

How about generally?  Disregard.  I saw your post from BookofMormonCentral.

Edited March 21, 2024 by telnetd

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, telnetd said:

How about generally?

Generally what?

[telnetd]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

Generally what?

I saw a new post by BlueBell about BookofMormonCentral.  I think that answered my question.

[Nofear]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

This goes back to my original question. Are priesthood power and authority the same thing?

No.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2014/06/priesthood-power-available-to-all?lang=eng

[mfbukowski]

2 hours ago, JAHS said:

This goes back to my original question. Are priesthood power and authority the same thing? Authority to me means you have been given the right by God to perform certain ordinances.
It seems to me that's all you need. Or is the "power" the force that causes the thing to happen that you have been authorized to do? That's why it seems to me that the power is what causes a person to be healed when given a priesthood blessing. 

Insofar as the two different metanarratives, what the words "represent" can be separated: I vote that the word "authority" is more about permission within a human social structure and "power" is a natural force.

So in the wonderful world of electricity, the natural "power" of electricity is dispensed by the social "authority" of your local "power company" , a definite human made social structure.

Don't pay the bill? The Local Social Electrical Authorities will cut you off, but electricity keeps flowing as a natural power.

One can be "off the grid" and still have power!

 

 

Edited March 21, 2024 by mfbukowski

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

No.
https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2014/06/priesthood-power-available-to-all?lang=eng

Good quote from that talk:
"There is a difference, however, between priesthood authority and priesthood power. Priesthood authority is conferred by ordination, but priesthood power is available to all."

That is a difference, but it still doesn't explain what "power" actually is. I guess I have to equate it with something like "the force" in Star Wars. It is what causes things to happen.

[Senator]

9 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

 

One can be "off the grid" and still have power!

 

Now there's a metaphor for ya!

[MustardSeed]

6 minutes ago, JAHS said:

Good quote from that talk:
"There is a difference, however, between priesthood authority and priesthood power. Priesthood authority is conferred by ordination, but priesthood power is available to all."

That is a difference, but it still doesn't explain what "power" actually is. I guess I have to equate it with something like "the force" in Star Wars. It is what causes things to happen.

Indeed. * what exactly does priesthood power mean?* - and if women have it, which we are told we do, what are we expected, allowed, taught, encouraged to do with it? Why is there not more conversation about this in all of those priesthood lessons in those manuals, especially for the young women?