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telnetd

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  1. In that case, the suffering of unsaved souls would also include Latter-day Saints who were not faithful in keeping their covenants or did not participate in all the temple ordinances.
  2. Thank you 3DOP. You've explained it well.
  3. The doctrine of spirit prison resembles a purgatory for the wicked, where individuals must suffer for their own sins to be cleansed. While faithful LDS elders avoid this suffering to preach to those in darkness (D&C 138:57), the spirits in prison are only redeemed after receiving all temple ordinances (v. 58). Furthermore, verse 59 suggests that Christ's atonement alone does not exempt them from paying a personal penalty for their transgressions before being washed clean. Catholic purgatory is exclusively for the saved whereas spirit prison includes both the unevangelized, the unrepentant, the wicked, and possibly those who have not received all the temple ordinances. How do you feel this requirement for personal suffering and all temple ordinances impacts the core teaching regarding the sufficiency of Christ's atonement? Keeping all the commandments is also a requirement. "That by keeping the commandments they might be washed and cleansed from all their sins, and receive the Holy Spirit by the laying on of the hands of him who is ordained and sealed unto this power".
  4. I don't know, since the term is not applied to the men.
  5. Why do you believe Doctrine and Covenants 132:61 refers to virgins as being women who have never had sexual relations?
  6. So the reference to virgins in Doctrine and Covenants 132 is different from 1 Nephi 11:15–20, 2 Nephi 17:14, and Alma 7:10?
  7. It's possible where some unforeseen death occurs before consumation or they choose to remain celibate.
  8. It's possible that a widow remained a virgin.
  9. "Virgin" in a sexual sense. And Mary said to the angel, "How will this be, since I am a virgin?" (ESV) Then said Mary unto the angel, "How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (KJV)
  10. Yes. I'm making mention of it based on what is written in D&C 132. I figured "virgins" would be the context of what Joseph F. Smith said too. If elders should marry non-virgins, why would verses 61-63 specifically mention only virgins?
  11. That portion of the Welsh Saints Project had this section: The "Parable of the ten talents" means wives. ... Joseph F. Smith said that young men who hold the Lesser Priesthood an [and] aspire to the Higher should be put under covenant to adopt Plural marriage or forfeit all right to the High Priesthood, said this time would soon come. Young men had better be married by the Bishop than go into the House of God and make covenants they do not intend to keep. I associated female "virgins" to my question based on what was written in Doctrine and Covenants 132:61-63. One can conclude these "young men" would naturally be seeking virgins for their plural marriage. Why should they be virgins and how young would these virgins be?
  12. @Calm @webbles The so-called revelation doesn't only deal with wives; concubines are there too. "I, the Lord, justified my servants Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, as also Moses, David and Solomon, my servants, as touching the principle and doctrine of their having many wives and concubines ... David also received many wives and concubines, and also Solomon and Moses my servants, as also many others of my servants, from the beginning of creation until this time; and in nothing did they sin save in those things which they received not of me". Jacob 2:24 said the opposite. "Behold, David and Solomon truly had many wives and concubines, which thing was abominable before me, saith the Lord". I am not aware of any wives and concubines that did not turn their heart away from God. Do you believe Abraham, Jacob and Moses really had MANY wives and concubines? Which MANY others of my servants from Adam all the way down to our time also participated? If talents really means "many wives" as the Welsh Saints Project records, why must they be virgins? Is there a minimum age for the virgins?
  13. So 132:61 is speaking of unmarried (unattached) women who are not virgins?
  14. Show me where the elders accumulated virgins but remained celibate after each instance. Imagine this conversation ... "Sorry honey, but I'm going to marry up to ten virgins but I promise to remain celibate with each one of them" Did Joseph Smith remain celibate with Emma?
  15. Verse 61 doesn't really make sense. It assumes you will marry a virgin, then she will remain a virgin all the while you are looking for your second or other virgins to marry. Would your 5 wives really remain virgins as you march toward your tally of ten mentioned in the next verse?
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