LDS Church ever more insular and irrelevant in the community.

[Chum]

16 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Perhaps there are those who quietly go about helping, without fanfare. So you don't know about them.

When my wife's first husband passed away, it was first at his funeral that many of his own family found out about all the things he had done behind the scenes to help people in need. He was doing his Christ-like service where God could see it, and not for the world to witness. 

If I think service I've done is interesting, I'll talk it up.  Some years back, our stake had directed us to do a day of service. It was fairly complex with most of the planning done by the city, with us coordinating and providing most of the backs. From end to end it was a model of how to get it done. We repeated the the next 3 years which completed everywhere in city limits. After that the stake stopped directing us to be involved and that was the end of it.

Moves are not interesting.  However, there are times discussing them can be useful. eg: performing service after receiving assistance.

The kids and I have served a lot because we like to serve. Moving mulch will always be more enjoyable than listening to monotonal, droning 2nd hour lessons.

[The Nehor]

17 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I like how everyone is talking about how FOX isn't good news, and not a word about how CNN has fallen from king, to morally bankrupt, ratings-starved, irrelevant joke.

At this point, I'm thinking silence basically implies agreement.  But if that opinion isn't universally shared, let me throw down the gauntlet:  Hey any human on the face of the planet: If you think CNN in 2022 is NOT little more than a click-driven outrage-peddling transparently biased source of anti-news, I'd like to hear why you think that. 

Can anyone give me an updated count of CNN folks fired for doing naughty horrible sex things, but only after they get arrested, indicted, or accused publicly?  There's John Griffin, a former Chris Cuomo producer, fired after being indicted by a federal grand jury for alleged horrible sex things with minors.  There's Rick Saleeby, a former senior producer for Jake Tapper's show, resigned after being arrested as part of a criminal investigation into his allegedly describing alleged sexual fantasies about alleged young girls.  At least Chris Cuomo's allegations of sexual misconduct are coming from an adult, so that's something.

 

I’m not defending anyone or anything as pure or good but if you are trying to do some kind of comparative ‘these people are the worst because of sheer numbers’ things enjoy some light reading:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fox_News_controversies

That being said all cable news in general rots your brain, they are all pretty awful at being informative and helpful, and the 24 hour news cycle was a huge mistake and ironically leaves people less informed than the evening news segments we used to have. Instead of hearing a few stories with a bit of details you get headlines relentlessly slammed into your brain and a gaggle of idiots discussing it. I am glad that younger generations don’t watch TV in the same way as the older generations. Then again the social media news has the potential to get much worse and probably will. It is already being weaponized by political and economic forces as a tool of disinformation and confusion. I see so many obvious bots now that it is just sad and I am betting 90% of them are run very economically by Russia and China.

In any case a war of which news channel has the most sex offenders or altered images or is the most biased misses the point that the whole thing is toxic and should be destroyed. Anyone know how?

Downside of the new online journalism is no one is paying for it and reporting on local issues has diminished and reporters aren’t watching a lot of the action. No one is going to the local zoning meetings to catch any obvious bribery or whatever. If you have the right kind of conscience (i.e. you don’t have one) I highly recommend going into local politics. The corruption is going to be particularly pervasive and lucrative in the coming years. The competent investigative journalists left are doing some good work but almost no one hears them unless they do it as entertainment. Some do news entertainment well and some are just propaganda mills with shallow jokes thrown in that are more about tribal identity than they are being funny.

[Chum]

57 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I like how everyone is talking about how FOX isn't good news, and not a word about how CNN has fallen from king, to morally bankrupt, ratings-starved, irrelevant joke.

At this point, I'm thinking silence basically implies agreement.  But if that opinion isn't universally shared, let me throw down the gauntlet:  Hey any human on the face of the planet: If you think CNN in 2022 is NOT little more than a click-driven outrage-peddling transparently biased source of anti-news, I'd like to hear why you think that. 

Can anyone give me an updated count of CNN folks fired for doing naughty horrible sex things, but only after they get arrested, indicted, or accused publicly?  There's John Griffin, a former Chris Cuomo producer, fired after being indicted by a federal grand jury for alleged horrible sex things with minors.  There's Rick Saleeby, a former senior producer for Jake Tapper's show, resigned after being arrested as part of a criminal investigation into his allegedly describing alleged sexual fantasies about alleged young girls.  At least Chris Cuomo's allegations of sexual misconduct are coming from an adult, so that's something.

 

The whole You Suck So My Suck Doesn't Count thing is pretty much how we got here.

[LoudmouthMormon]

30 minutes ago, Chum said:

The whole You Suck So My Suck Doesn't Count thing is pretty much how we got here.

You mistake my intent.  I'm not holding anything up as "doesn't suck".  Let's review:

1. @Amulekand @Chum started talking about giving up news.

2. I posted something harping on CNN, ABC, MSNBC, FOX, and CBS.

3. @Cordelia, @The Nehor, @Chum, and @BRMC all launched into their various FOX-critical posts.  

4. I pointed out folks were talking about FOX and ignoring CNN, and harped specifically on CNN, pointing out it's recent December whirlwind of sex-related scandals, two of them involving minor children.

Apparently, harping on mainstream news, then doubling down specifically on CNN, means I automatically support FOX, and am therefore part of the problem.  Again, I find this gut-reflex defensive reaction to CNN criticism to be fascinating.  Is it that hard to just plain old harp on child sex abusers, and let their old employer sweat a little under some increased scrutiny?  

For the record, I'm largely with The Nehor here:

58 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That being said all cable news in general rots your brain, they are all pretty awful at being informative and helpful, and the 24 hour news cycle was a huge mistake and ironically leaves people less informed than the evening news segments we used to have. Instead of hearing a few stories with a bit of details you get headlines relentlessly slammed into your brain and a gaggle of idiots discussing it. I am glad that younger generations don’t watch TV in the same way as the older generations. Then again the social media news has the potential to get much worse and probably will. It is already being weaponized by political and economic forces as a tool of disinformation and confusion. I see so many obvious bots now that it is just sad and I am betting 90% of them are run very economically by Russia and China.

In any case a war of which news channel has the most sex offenders or altered images or is the most biased misses the point that the whole thing is toxic and should be destroyed. Anyone know how?

Downside of the new online journalism is no one is paying for it and reporting on local issues has diminished and reporters aren’t watching a lot of the action. No one is going to the local zoning meetings to catch any obvious bribery or whatever. 

I'm a bit more optimistic about local reporting than you.  In that I see regular folks, not educated and paid journalists, producing quite a bit of insightful relevant content.  It's true that folks need to be smarter about their news sources.  And folks need to understand there's no such thing as a lack of bias.  And folks need to know how to google better.  And be better at detecting horse hockey.   But those things'll be relevant to the conversation, whether it's 10 platforms and 1000 individual bits of journalism, or the old monopolies of the Dinosaur Media.

The solution to the toxic mess, just like most other problems, is to have people be brighter and care more.  As I said before, I'm thrilled to see how many people are leaving CNN.  It used to be the biggest, uncontested leader.  Then it started sucking, and it lost ground - it didn't gain.  That gives me renewed hope in my fellow humans.

(I'd have even more hope if @Chum could just say something critical about the recent discovery of two potential alleged child sex abusers at CNN.  It won't make you a FOX apologist, I promise...)

[Buckeye]

On 1/2/2022 at 2:38 PM, Islander said:

Since last week, we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people. A neighbor of ours that is active in his local church called me two days ago to see if we had a couple of blankets to spare to donate. They have opened several churches around the communities to house temporarily those left homeless by the fire as it burned its way through the foothills development and those evacuated because of danger. We were more than happy to help. We went yesterday and helped in the kitchen there to prep meals for about 150 people that are staying in that particular church building.

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

"And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James 2:16-17

I live in Littleton on the south side of Denver (moved here from Ohio this summer). The first testimony in our ward discussed the fires. I and many others are anxious to pitch in. So much so that the stake issued an email last night imploring members to stop calling their leaders (and especially stop calling the Boulder stake leaders) and promised that organized service opportunities will be forthcoming.
 

Right now there is little that can be done for direct assistance. Fires are out. A foot of snow covers everything. And the evacuated are largely placed (local shelters have tons of room a few takers). The impacted families tend to be upper middle class. They mostly need time and space to move forward, such as working through insurance claims and getting kids back in school. 
 

This isn’t a disaster that calls for roofs to be quickly fixed, debris removed, blood donated, or other types of service where LDS excel. In fact, the public is barred from the burn areas. Our church is taking care of its own (see the recent church news article) and I’m confident we’ll be at the forefront of community response. 

[Buckeye]

For what it’s worth, I’ve lived nearly a half century in a dozen plus locations around every corner of the county, all the while a member. I’ve never been somewhere with as many service opportunities - and in particular well organized service - as I have here in Colorado. 

While we wait for direction on how to help those in Boulder, I’ve had plenty to do making sure my family’s evacuation preparations are complete, coordinating pet plans with non-member neighbors, and checking in on my ministering families about their plans. 

[rodheadlee]

CNN got busted filming from a rooftop in Texas when they claimed they were filming from a rooftop in Baghdad. I haven't watched since.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rodheadlee said:

CNN got busted filming from a rooftop in Texas when they claimed they were filming from a rooftop in Baghdad. I haven't watched since.

My favorite was when my husband saw a Russian communist rally being shown after he had been there that day and had seen how the demonstrators (not a particularly enthusiastic crowd) were all forced into one small area of Red Square and then the news photographer took an overhead shot that didn’t show the edges of the crowd or one from farther back so you could see how big it actually was.  I think he said it was in the hundreds while CNN reported 10,000s iirc. The Communist Party upped that a magnitude, so CNN wasn’t the worst, lol (the CP were struggling in the election and were pretty much ignored by those in Moscow according to our Russian friends, contrary to what was being spread in the US at the time about a resurgence, wiki seems to view Zyuganov as the front runner at the beginning, so perhaps our Russian friends and the English papers we read were biased, but our friends would laugh about it https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gennady_Zyuganov_1996_presidential_campaign).

I always check to see if reporters take a long distance shot or show crowd edges now and don’t trust numbers…or much of anything else after hearing American reporting while in Russia or Canada. Not that accurate. 
 

I think the last time I sat down to see serious news was after a major international disaster and instead saw a bride wrestling a pig in her wedding gown. Nothing was said about the disaster.  After that, I do online news and try to get multiple sources for anything of import….but mostly ignore it. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by Calm

[poptart]

16 hours ago, Chum said:

Honestly, if I thought a different faith had a better method or thought the Church just sucks at this, I'd say so.

Objectively I think the Church is getting this about as right as is possible. It also matches my own experience defusing really bad situations.  It'd be nice if it was also satisfying but I'll settle for what works.

I think a lot of that is relative.  TBH, big reason why I invested the time in Christianity that I did, assimilation.  A lot of my E.Asian friends do that to some degree, some even join churches just to blend in.  They still keep their traditions, they just use Christianity to shield it.  The caucasian side very much favored me plus I had all that knowledge to borrow from so I pretty much used the same tactics.  When it comes to my core reasoning, I still fall on Buddhism plus the other things I grew up with.  At the end of the day, I'm still just an observer, my solutions just would not work here, the culture here is just too different from how I grew up and the family I'm close to, that and things like accountability/personal responsibility are foreign concepts to the culture here, at least from what i've seen.  

[bsjkki]

On 1/2/2022 at 4:30 PM, Islander said:

I disagree. In times of crisis what you needs are hands and boots on the scene in order to move the resources on the ground and get them to the people in need. Long term is possible that checks my help but you need a whole bureaucracy to turn a check into goods and services

Checks are much more helpful than stuff. I worked the YMCA Red Cross shelter for this disaster Sunday evening. The blankets and other donations take people to sort and store (Red cross doesn't do this but the YMCA does). So many donations, few people coming in for them and Monday morning they were being loaded and taken to ARC (like goodwill) and local food banks. As of Sunday night, no power or water in the affected areas. Less than 30 in the only remaining open shelter. So many people would come in volunteering to help but we had no use for them.  Overall. If you want to help in a disaster make sure you have already signed up. It took 3 months for me to go through the background checks and training required to volunteer in a shelter. We had many people coming in who needed mental health assistance. They were overwhelmed with their loss and we had trained staff to provide that. Another organizations was handing out space heaters and loading water for families. We would direct people to them but they were also fully staffed. Do ask local officials what they need and don't just show up with stuff. Much of it is not needed or helpful. We had to turn away pizza donations from a local shop due to food safety concerns because they were not a vetted partner. Plus, 3 meals a day were already being provided as well as snacks and beverages all day. People would come in with gift cards and those will go to assistance but at the shelter, unless you donate one for each shelter family, we can't hand them out. We don't get to pick and choose who gets a gift card. If you want to help someone directly, find victims and donate to their go fund me accounts.

The church will organize through their helping hands program when the time is right. When Boulder suffered flooding and when I lived in Hurricane areas, the church organized the volunteer efforts after consulting with local officials. We are actually really good at helping where we can in a very useful way. It is very rewarding to go out of area with fellow ward members and shovel mud and gather debris. When it is safe, I'm sure we will be instructed on how we can best help. 

Right now, our whole area is being asked to help with the refugee's. My area is staffing a warehouse and seeking help with apartment set-ups and needed donations for this. We have had numerous service nights to put items together. 

 

15 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I live in Littleton on the south side of Denver (moved here from Ohio this summer). The first testimony in our ward discussed the fires. I and many others are anxious to pitch in. So much so that the stake issued an email last night imploring members to stop calling their leaders (and especially stop calling the Boulder stake leaders) and promised that organized service opportunities will be forthcoming.
 

Right now there is little that can be done for direct assistance. Fires are out. A foot of snow covers everything. And the evacuated are largely placed (local shelters have tons of room a few takers). The impacted families tend to be upper middle class. They mostly need time and space to move forward, such as working through insurance claims and getting kids back in school. 
 

This isn’t a disaster that calls for roofs to be quickly fixed, debris removed, blood donated, or other types of service where LDS excel. In fact, the public is barred from the burn areas. Our church is taking care of its own (see the recent church news article) and I’m confident we’ll be at the forefront of community response. 

It was heartwarming to see how much people wanted to help. The county has opened an assistance center that will be a one stop shop for all those effected by this fire. County officials and FEMA, insurance co's and county housing reps will all be on site as well as mental health providers. It is a great community up there and they are doing everything they can to get people the help they need. I'm sure the 11 members who lost homes, are being flooded with help from their local ward, stake and area. 

Edited January 4, 2022 by bsjkki

[Rain]

 

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Checks are much more helpful than stuff. I worked the YMCA Red Cross shelter for this disaster Sunday evening. The blankets and other donations take people to sort and store (Red cross doesn't do this but the YMCA does). So many donations, few people coming in for them and Monday morning they were being loaded and taken to ARC (like goodwill) and local food banks. As of Sunday night, no power or water in the affected areas. Less than 30 in the only remaining open shelter. So many people would come in volunteering to help but we had no use for them.  Overall. If you want to help in a disaster make sure you have already signed up. It took 3 months for me to go through the background checks and training required to volunteer in a shelter. We had many people coming in who needed mental health assistance. They were overwhelmed with their loss and we had trained staff to provide that. Another organizations was handing out space heaters and loading water for families. We would direct people to them but they were also fully staffed. Do ask local officials what they need and don't just show up with stuff. Much of it is not needed or helpful. We had to turn away pizza donations from a local shop due to food safety concerns because they were not a vetted partner. Plus, 3 meals a day were already being provided as well as snacks and beverages all day. People would come in with gift cards and those will go to assistance but at the shelter, unless you donate one for each shelter family, we can't hand them out. We don't get to pick and choose who gets a gift card. If you want to help someone directly, find victims and donate to their go fund me accounts.

The church will organize through their helping hands program when the time is right. When Boulder suffered flooding and when I lived in Hurricane areas, the church organized the volunteer efforts after consulting with local officials. We are actually really good at helping where we can in a very useful way. It is very rewarding to go out of area with fellow ward members and shovel mud and gather debris. When it is safe, I'm sure we will be instructed on how we can best help. 

Right now, our whole area is being asked to help with the refugee's. My area is staffing a warehouse and seeking help with apartment set-ups and needed donations for this. We have had numerous service nights to put items together. 

I know some areas are really new to this and I don't know what yours is like.  Would they maybe like to see our apartment needs list or household item kits that can be made and donated that make it easier? If they have their own thing ready and running probably not, but if new they might find them helpful.

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

 

It was heartwarming to see how much people wanted to help. The county has opened an assistance center that will be a one stop shop for all those effected by this fire. County officials and FEMA, insurance co's and county housing reps will all be on site as well as mental health providers. It is a great community up there and they are doing everything they can to get people the help they need. I'm sure the 11 members who lost homes, are being flooded with help from their local ward, stake and area. 

 

[Kenngo1969]

17 hours ago, Buckeye said:

For what it’s worth, I’ve lived nearly a half century in a dozen plus locations around every corner of the county ...

You're kidding!  You've lived in every corner of the whole county?

Wow!

That's impressive.

You get around!!

Sorry.   Couldn't resist!   Carry on!

[Scott Lloyd]

21 hours ago, BRMC said:

There are a ton of stories on it.  Here's one.

https://www.npr.org/2020/09/29/917747123/you-literally-cant-believe-the-facts-tucker-carlson-tells-you-so-say-fox-s-lawye

Thanks. 
 

So I take it that Carlson’s lawyers successfully argued  — and the judge in the case agreed — that a reasonable listener would be able to recognize the use of hyperbolic expressions — expressions such as “there are a ton of stories on it” — when he hears them used in the statement of an opinion and not take them literally.  

[dougtheavenger]

On 1/2/2022 at 4:38 PM, Islander said:

Since last week, we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people. A neighbor of ours that is active in his local church called me two days ago to see if we had a couple of blankets to spare to donate. They have opened several churches around the communities to house temporarily those left homeless by the fire as it burned its way through the foothills development and those evacuated because of danger. We were more than happy to help. We went yesterday and helped in the kitchen there to prep meals for about 150 people that are staying in that particular church building.

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

"And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James 2:16-17

Wow 60 people per home. Remarkable.

[ksfisher]

2 minutes ago, dougtheavenger said:

we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people

 

2 minutes ago, dougtheavenger said:

Wow 60 people per home. Remarkable.

People can be displaced by a fire (also called being evacuated) without their home being destroyed.

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, dougtheavenger said:

Wow 60 people per home. Remarkable.

32,000 were evacuated and most did not have power restored until yesterday. Almost 1000 homes destroyed but many more ‘displaced.’

[Chum]

5 hours ago, poptart said:

I think a lot of that is relative.  TBH, big reason why I invested the time in Christianity that I did, assimilation.

We all have mixed motivations. One of my big ones was to embed myself with a better parenting environment. Or to take a lesson from my mom, hang with people who are better than me.

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

CNN got busted filming from a rooftop in Texas when they claimed they were filming from a rooftop in Baghdad. I haven't watched since.

If you applied that standard across the board for deceptive and fraudulent videography you wouldn’t watch any cable news at all. Again, I encourage this approach.

[Chum]

36 minutes ago, dougtheavenger said:

Wow 60 people per home. Remarkable.

Because your poorly reasoned conclusion must be what happened?

[The Nehor]

41 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Thanks. 
 

So I take it that Carlson’s lawyers successfully argued  — and the judge in the case agreed — that a reasonable listener would be able to recognize the use of hyperbolic expressions — expressions such as “there are a ton of stories on it” — when he hears them used in the statement of an opinion and not take them literally.  

"Remember the facts of the story. These are undisputed." - Tucker Carlson

That is not how you do hyperbole. It is how you do lying.

[Scott Lloyd]

20 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

"Remember the facts of the story. These are undisputed." - Tucker Carlson

That is not how you do hyperbole. It is how you do lying.

This is how you do cherry picking. 

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is how you do cherry picking. 

It is literally a quote from the piece he was sued over talking about the assertions he was sued over. The facts he is talking about were demonstratively false.

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is literally a quote from the piece he was sued over talking about the assertions he was sued over. The facts he is talking about were demonstratively false.

Some cherries need picking. To do otherwise is wasteful.

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It is literally a quote from the piece he was sued over talking about the assertions he was sued over. The facts he is talking about were demonstratively false.

Whatever. 
 

Obviously, the court disagrees with you. 

[Scott Lloyd]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

You're kidding!  You've lived in every corner of the whole county?

Wow!

That's impressive.

You get around!!

Sorry.   Couldn't resist!   Carry on!

I’ve lived in Salt Lake City, and now I live almost in Draper, so I guess I’ve lived in each end of Salt Lake County — though probably not in every corner.