LDS Church ever more insular and irrelevant in the community.

[Islander]

Since last week, we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people. A neighbor of ours that is active in his local church called me two days ago to see if we had a couple of blankets to spare to donate. They have opened several churches around the communities to house temporarily those left homeless by the fire as it burned its way through the foothills development and those evacuated because of danger. We were more than happy to help. We went yesterday and helped in the kitchen there to prep meals for about 150 people that are staying in that particular church building.

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

"And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James 2:16-17

[The Nehor]

It was Fast and Testimony meeting. Unless that was attached to some testimony why would it be mentioned?

Or did you mean in the sense of volunteerism? For cleanup the work probably hasn’t really started yet. I think the fire was only put out yesterday. Most likely the immediate needs of those who evacuated were dealt with during the week. I hope local leadership were in touch with their members making sure they were all okay and that their needs were being met and worked with community leaders to help with other needs but that might not be mentioned in sacrament meeting either.

[bluebell]

I'm surprised no one in your ward seemed to be aware of or care about what was happening, since they are a part of the community as well.  That is weird and not at all what my experience has been in the areas that I have lived.

I do wonder though, if some of this is a form of burnout.  There are so many disasters happening right now, so many people who are suffering and in need, that it never really ends, and there are always multiple people to pray for and events to ask God for help with almost every day.  I think that sometimes, especially when people feel like they can't really do much themselves (for right or wrong) that one form of self-protection is to mentally and emotionally distance themselves from it all.   There are a lot of difficult feelings that come with mourning with those that mourn--it's mentally and emotionally exhausting sometimes--and we've been having to do it a lot this year. 

I think that some people are emotionally and mentally tapped out.

[Vanguard]

41 minutes ago, Islander said:

Since last week, we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people. A neighbor of ours that is active in his local church called me two days ago to see if we had a couple of blankets to spare to donate. They have opened several churches around the communities to house temporarily those left homeless by the fire as it burned its way through the foothills development and those evacuated because of danger. We were more than happy to help. We went yesterday and helped in the kitchen there to prep meals for about 150 people that are staying in that particular church building.

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

"And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James 2:16-17

Deletion.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Vanguard

[Rain]

If you are in Colorado I know the missionaries have plans to help.

One thing I have found is that most members are really quiet about how much they serve the community, but actually put in an awful lot of time.  If asked they will change the subject or lessen the amount they do.  Then there are others who, like you say, don't really do much.  It's hard to know which ones they are at times.  

People just have a hard time talking about it because they don't want to be "seen of men".  

Often times the church works that way as well.  They go in behind the scenes and provide support. Other times they are out there front and center with yellow shirts. 

The other thing to look at is timing.  Sometimes people and organizations rush to get there at the start.  Others wait and then fill in the gaps that are just as needed. 

Also, I have found the leaders of a ward or stake make a huge difference.  Some wards it will be like pulling teeth to do service as activities.  Then a new leader will be called and there is a huge focus on service.

And sometimes a ward or stake will surprise you.  A few months back our stake had a service project or 2 going on that I somehow had never heard anything about.  Then I discovered that a newly arriving refugee family of 7 or 8 was moving into the stake with nothing.  My husband told in high council that our stake had an opportunity to fill the apartment with household goods, furniture and foods.  Within 3 days we had everything needed and the apartment was set up ready for the family a day or 2 later.  

I was shocked.  Always before I had viewed my staķe as a whole as not really committed to service.  I actually knew quite a few people that quietly did service on their own, but rarely did I see church things. I emailed the stake president pictures and info about how it went and that's when I found out we currently had the other project or 2 going as well.

So no, the church isn't insular and irrelevant in the community, though individuals, individual wards and stake might be.  Sometimes you may just have no idea what is actually going on. 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Rain

[Rain]

17 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'm surprised no one in your ward seemed to be aware of or care about what was happening, since they are a part of the community as well.  That is weird and not at all what my experience has been in the areas that I have lived.

I do wonder though, if some of this is a form of burnout.  There are so many disasters happening right now, so many people who are suffering and in need, that it never really ends, and there are always multiple people to pray for and events to ask God for help with almost every day.  I think that sometimes, especially when people feel like they can't really do much themselves (for right or wrong) that one form of self-protection is to mentally and emotionally distance themselves from it all.   There are a lot of difficult feelings that come with mourning with those that mourn--it's mentally and emotionally exhausting sometimes--and we've been having to do it a lot this year. 

I think that some people are emotionally and mentally tapped out.

Burnout is a huge thing.  You can't give out water if you have none to give. 

[Fether]

49 minutes ago, Islander said:

Since last week, we have experienced fires in the community that destroyed 100+ homes and displaced almost 6000 people. A neighbor of ours that is active in his local church called me two days ago to see if we had a couple of blankets to spare to donate. They have opened several churches around the communities to house temporarily those left homeless by the fire as it burned its way through the foothills development and those evacuated because of danger. We were more than happy to help. We went yesterday and helped in the kitchen there to prep meals for about 150 people that are staying in that particular church building.

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

"And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. " James 2:16-17

This is an issue of local wards, not the church itself. I have been in many wards and each one would have a completely different approach to how they did their service. Some were extremely active in the community while others seemed to take the hermit approach.

[SkyRock]

The church is one of the greatest source of charitable disaster assistance in the country. 

I happened to live within 5 hours of the devastation caused by Hurricane Harvey.  The church, like with all disasters, organized Helping Hands crews.   I went consecutive weekends, once to a Jewish neighborhood in Houston and once to a very impoverished black communiry 50 miles or so east of Houston.   We didn't help a single member.   We received profound thanks from people, who were devastated by what occurred. 

I suspect the local stakes near the fires are actively engaged in service there. 

[Islander]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

It was Fast and Testimony meeting. Unless that was attached to some testimony why would it be mentioned?

Or did you mean in the sense of volunteerism? For cleanup the work probably hasn’t really started yet. I think the fire was only put out yesterday. Most likely the immediate needs of those who evacuated were dealt with during the week. I hope local leadership were in touch with their members making sure they were all okay and that their needs were being met and worked with community leaders to help with other needs but that might not be mentioned in sacrament meeting either.

The local missionaries were not aware of any effort being organized. I asked.

[Islander]

3 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

The church is one of the greatest source of charitable disaster assistance in the country. 

I happened to live within 5 hours of the devastation caused by Hurricane Harvey.  The church, like with all disasters, organized Helping Hands crews.   I went consecutive weekends, once to a Jewish neighborhood in Houston and once to a very impoverished black communiry 50 miles or so east of Houston.   We didn't help a single member.   We received profound thanks from people, who were devastated by what occurred. 

I suspect the local stakes near the fires are actively engaged in service there. 

I am not interested in the "corporate effort". Christ never spoke about that. I am interest in the personal effort. The sacrifice that costs US time, energy, money, effort, the tangible hand that touches the lives of others though which people can see the love of Christ flowing through us. Lots of people donate lots of money for the wrong reasons but will never lift a finger to go and do the work. In the United States is the most common form of "help". Write a check and forget about it. 

[SkyRock]

Just now, Islander said:

I am not interested in the "corporate effort". Christ never spoke about that. I am interest in the personal effort. The sacrifice that costs US time, energy, money, effort, the tangible hand that touches the lives of others though which people can see the love of Christ flowing through us. Lots of people donate lots of money for the wrong reasons but will never lift a finger to go and do the work. In the United States is the most common form of "help". Write a check and forget about it. 

Thousands of members traveled hundreds of miles to engage in manual labor for strangers at their own expense, sleeping on the flours of school gyms.  

It seems you just want to find fault and are angry over your expectations not being met.   You can be far better than this. 

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Islander said:

I am not interested in the "corporate effort". Christ never spoke about that. I am interest in the personal effort. The sacrifice that costs US time, energy, money, effort, the tangible hand that touches the lives of others though which people can see the love of Christ flowing through us. Lots of people donate lots of money for the wrong reasons but will never lift a finger to go and do the work. In the United States is the most common form of "help". Write a check and forget about it. 

Sometimes that is the help that helps the most though.

I know that our local food banks, though always happy to take collected food, has said repeatedly that money is the most helpful. Because then they can buy the food they actually need, rather than rely on whatever is donated, whether it’s very useful or not.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community.

It is my experience that larger outreach is typically organized at the stake or area level. And I'll echo that it's a bit early.

Me: FL+30 years. I've consistently seen organized help quickly follow every tropical event.

[The Nehor]

12 minutes ago, Islander said:

I am not interested in the "corporate effort". Christ never spoke about that. I am interest in the personal effort. The sacrifice that costs US time, energy, money, effort, the tangible hand that touches the lives of others though which people can see the love of Christ flowing through us. Lots of people donate lots of money for the wrong reasons but will never lift a finger to go and do the work. In the United States is the most common form of "help". Write a check and forget about it. 

In most efforts the check is much more helpful than access to a short-term pool of unskilled labor.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

Today in Sacrament, not a peep about the issues affecting the community. In my view, more evidence of how disconnected, aloof and indifferent most (individual) members of our church are to what happens around them. I have argued before rather unsuccessfully, that "invisible, private faith" is no faith at all. If the work of the Spirit is not visible in terms of tangible "fruit", there is no Spirit at work in that person, regardless of whatever else the person may claim or adhere to in general. A scripture comes to mind:

The unfortunate trend I've seen:  The lack of (our) ward interaction with the community. Excepting the years when the stake would direct us to put on a day of service, we never, ever did anything for anyone who wasn't us (also excepting delivery of food orders to a women's shelter). We did a good job on that one day though.

I'll clarify that I'm talking about the ward I just moved from and over a 25+ year period. I can't speak to my new ward yet. It could be much better.

[BRMC]

1 minute ago, Chum said:

The unfortunate trend I've seen:  The lack of (our) ward interaction with the community. Excepting the years when the stake would direct us to put on a day of service, we never, ever did anything for anyone who wasn't us (also excepting delivery of food orders to a women's shelter). We did a good job on that one day though.

I'll clarify that I'm talking about the ward I just moved from and over a 25+ year period. I can't speak to my new ward yet. It could be much better.

I think people forget that "the ward" is made up of individuals who volunteer their time.  We all have a responsibility for service individually.   It's not "what has our ward done for the community", it's "what have we done for the community".  More specifically, what have "I" done for our community and encouraged others to do.

[Chum]

18 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

22 minutes ago, Islander said:

I am not interested in the "corporate effort". Christ never spoke about that. I am interest in the personal effort.

Thousands of members traveled hundreds of miles to engage in manual labor for strangers at their own expense, sleeping on the flours of school gyms. 

I believe that is the personal effort he's advocating.  I agree that check are necessary as well but support SkyRock's point that blessings freely flow when it's us out there doing labor - when our labor is the right fit, that is.

[Islander]

8 minutes ago, SkyRock said:

The church is one of the greatest source of charitable disaster assistance in the country. 

I happened to live within 5 hours of the devastation caused by Hurricane Harvey.  The church, like with all disasters, organized Helping Hands crews.   I went consecutive weekends, once to a Jewish neighborhood in Houston and once to a very impoverished black communiry 50 miles or so east of Houston.   We didn't help a single member.   We received profound thanks from people, who were devastated by what occurred. 

I suspect the local stakes near the fires are actively engaged in service there. 

You suspicions are unfounded. I asked the Elders and they had no idea about any relief related activity. My post is based on first hand knowledge of the apathy and lack of social engagement of this ward. When you have a ward with zero convert baptism in 5 years you are in the presence of a dead vine. This is the second ward in 10 years where I encounter a similar situation. It is just to easy to rationalize, to assume or attempt to justify. My question is, should you stand before the all-searching eye of the Almighty God to account for your lack of response when suffering and need abounded; will yout ell Him that you were "tired", "burned out" or short on time? Do you suppose that would fly or carry any weight?

[Chum]

13 minutes ago, BRMC said:

I think people forget that "the ward" is made up of individuals who volunteer their time.  We all have a responsibility for service individually.   It's not "what has our ward done for the community", it's "what have we done for the community".  More specifically, what have "I" done for our community and encouraged others to do.

I get that but there are a few issues. 

I belong to a unit of a service organization that only services itself and only occasionally. I can go find other organizations to devote my time to and that's what I do. The result is I become less invested in my ward.

The service I can do outside of my ward isn't remotely like the experience of Christ's church improving our community. Nothing is. But I settle for less because it's the only choice I have.

Ultimately, it is yet another thing I don't need my ward for; that leads me to question the value of whatever is left.

Edited January 2, 2022 by Chum

[Islander]

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

In most efforts the check is much more helpful than access to a short-term pool of unskilled labor.

I disagree. In times of crisis what you needs are hands and boots on the scene in order to move the resources on the ground and get them to the people in need. Long term is possible that checks my help but you need a whole bureaucracy to turn a check into goods and services

[BRMC]

Just now, Chum said:

I get that but there are a few issues. 

I belong to a unit of a service organization that only services itself and only occasionally. I can go find other organizations to devote my time to and that's what I do. The result is I become less invested in my ward.

The service I can do outside of my ward isn't remotely like the experience of being a part of Christ's church improving out community. Nothing is. But I settle for less because it's the only choice I have.

Ultimately, I start running out of things I need my ward for; I often question if whatever is left is worth it.

Why go outside your ward?   People in our ward regularly call each other and ask for help with projects.  As I've only belong to this one ward, is that a rarity?

[Chum]

1 minute ago, BRMC said:

Why go outside your ward?

There are people there. God's children no less.

2 minutes ago, BRMC said:

People in our ward regularly call each other and ask for help with projects.

People call on their friends for help. If their friends are members then that's what happens.

5 minutes ago, BRMC said:

As I've only belong to this one ward, is that a rarity?

I don't know.

[Rain]

50 minutes ago, Islander said:

The local missionaries were not aware of any effort being organized. I asked.

If it is Denver North their mission president posted about it on the parents page.  They had to evacuate 24 missionaries and the mission office so they were a little busy at first, but were at the time planning on doing something. 

[BRMC]

1 minute ago, Chum said:

There are people there. God's children no less.

 

I meant why go outside looking for help?   If you identify a need in your community, why not bring it up in EQ and ask for people to come fill that need with you?  That resolves all the issues you brought up in your response.

[MiserereNobis]

12 minutes ago, Islander said:

I disagree. In times of crisis what you needs are hands and boots on the scene in order to move the resources on the ground and get them to the people in need. Long term is possible that checks my help but you need a whole bureaucracy to turn a check into goods and services

That’s why your church often donates directly to Catholic Charities. We’ve already got the bureaucracy, infrastructure, etc. in place. Duplicating something we’ve already got in place would be a waste of effort that could instead go directly to help. 

Our churches have a decent history of working together on humanitarian issues.