One easy fix to the lack of ministering

[Chum]

12 hours ago, Peacefully said:

I was the RS President when ministering started and we had many coordinated meetings with the EQ Presidency. We went through the lists of brothers and sisters and made assignments of couples together and then RS made assignments of sisters. We prayerfully considered circumstances as we made assignments. We also had a fifth Sunday mtg where EQ Pres and I explained the new program. Once we had the assignments approved by the Bishop, the EQ Pres and I or our counselors met with couples to make assignments. Then sisters met with sisters for their assignments. It was a very long process and we were winging some of it because it was so new. The EQ Pres treated me as an equal in every way and it was one of the best experiences I had in leadership. When we started following up with people it seemed like it was kind of a learning curve and people needed time to get into the ministering mindset. I moved a few months after we got it set up so not sure where it went from there, but it was quite the experience. 

My experience is that when we ask to be assigned to specific families, leadership is thrilled to do that. Most of the time we can get whoever we want.

[Peacefully]

3 hours ago, Chum said:

My experience is that when we ask to be assigned to specific families, leadership is thrilled to do that. Most of the time we can get whoever we want.

Yes, we definitely took people’s requests into consideration and usually honored them. In fact, I can’t think of an instance where we said no you can’t minister to someone. I do think we may have had a couple of overlaps but I can’t remember for sure as it was a few years ago. 

Edited December 8, 2021 by Peacefully

[Teancum]

Just so ya all know, I am rather sad nobody from my ward reaches out. I have never asked them not to. I was the bishop of the ward for almost 6 years.  I was on the HC for 4 years after that.  I was an EQ president, YM president, ward mission leader and on and on.  Not in a boasting way, but I have been a fairly prominent member of my ward and stake for 40 years.  I stop attending and hardly anyone asks what is going on. Even close friends.  So why is that?  I would be quite fine with visits from my ward.  I still give to the fast offering fund every year. A substantial amount.

[ksfisher]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

Maybe once did I live within walking distance of another member. Generally they're miles away. I've had HT routes where the closest stop was a 45 min trip.  I figure most of the planet is like that.

Probably.  There are a lot of very dedicated people out there.

[Tacenda]

3 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Probably.  There are a lot of very dedicated people out there.

Well, that would put a damper on home teaching for sure. Especially if it's required to have an in home visit each month like the old days. ETA: Oops!! That was mean't for @Chum !

Edited December 8, 2021 by Tacenda

[Chum]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, that would put a damper on home teaching for sure. Especially if it's required to have an in home visit each month like the old days.

I went every month but I was a fresh convert. I also did the whole went by myself bc couldn't get my senior companion to come thing. The older single sisters didn't complain but my EQP did (at my companion).

[Hamba Tuhan]

21 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well, that would put a damper on home teaching for sure.

It needn't. Visiting one of my ministering families takes a minimum of 3-4 hours. We just plan well and often make an evening/day of it. As Pres Monson used to remind us, love is spelt T-I-M-E.

[rongo]

6 hours ago, Teancum said:

Just so ya all know, I am rather sad nobody from my ward reaches out. I have never asked them not to. I was the bishop of the ward for almost 6 years.  I was on the HC for 4 years after that.  I was an EQ president, YM president, ward mission leader and on and on.  Not in a boasting way, but I have been a fairly prominent member of my ward and stake for 40 years.  I stop attending and hardly anyone asks what is going on. Even close friends.  So why is that?  I would be quite fine with visits from my ward.  I still give to the fast offering fund every year. A substantial amount.

It's probably because most members are uncomfortable and don't know how to respond or what to do with a prominent member going completely inactive and losing their testimony. If it was simply a matter of you going inactive, there probably would have been some rescue visits (with a visiting GA for stake conference?  ). Do people know --- have you said things? --- that you don't believe the important, foundational things any more? Knowing that would terrify most people, because they don't know what to do or say. 

The sad thing is that reaching out may have helped you tremendously. As you have said, you actually have wanted them to reach out and are hurt and bewildered that they haven't. 

Maybe you should make the first move and break the ice by going back.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

43 minutes ago, rongo said:

Knowing that would terrify most people, because they don't know what to do or say. 

Terrify? Or bore? Personally, I'd rather spend my limited time around people who are more interesting than a 1970s anti-Mormon tract.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Terrify? Or bore? Personally, I'd rather spend my limited time around people who are more interesting than a 1970s anti-Mormon tract.

I don't think most people are bored by the thought of reaching out to those who have left the Church (formally, or practically). In my experience, people have some cogdis because they want to or know they should, but are nervous at the thought --- so they don't. 

[Peacefully]

10 hours ago, Teancum said:

Just so ya all know, I am rather sad nobody from my ward reaches out. I have never asked them not to. I was the bishop of the ward for almost 6 years.  I was on the HC for 4 years after that.  I was an EQ president, YM president, ward mission leader and on and on.  Not in a boasting way, but I have been a fairly prominent member of my ward and stake for 40 years.  I stop attending and hardly anyone asks what is going on. Even close friends.  So why is that?  I would be quite fine with visits from my ward.  I still give to the fast offering fund every year. A substantial amount.

That is sad. Have you mentioned to  any of the members that you would appreciate being visited? 

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, Teancum said:

Just so ya all know, I am rather sad nobody from my ward reaches out. I have never asked them not to. I was the bishop of the ward for almost 6 years.  I was on the HC for 4 years after that.  I was an EQ president, YM president, ward mission leader and on and on.  Not in a boasting way, but I have been a fairly prominent member of my ward and stake for 40 years.  I stop attending and hardly anyone asks what is going on. Even close friends.  So why is that?  I would be quite fine with visits from my ward.  I still give to the fast offering fund every year. A substantial amount.

I'm not making excuses for anyone in your ward.  When something people thought they had in common with you (especially something as seemingly all-encompassing as belief and participation in the Church of Jesus Christ) gets taken away, sometimes people wonder how, given such a momentous shift, they're supposed to be able to relate to you.  Perhaps they are concerned about giving offense.  As a Church community, collectively, we need to do a better job of internalizing and operationalizing (how's that for jargon! ) the idea that ministering isn't necessarily about what we do specifically as it is about simply showing genuine love for, interest in, and care for our brothers and sisters.  I hope the members of your ward come to that realization.  I wish you well.

[Teancum]

11 hours ago, rongo said:

It's probably because most members are uncomfortable and don't know how to respond or what to do with a prominent member going completely inactive and losing their testimony. If it was simply a matter of you going inactive, there probably would have been some rescue visits (with a visiting GA for stake conference?  ). Do people know --- have you said things? --- that you don't believe the important, foundational things any more? Knowing that would terrify most people, because they don't know what to do or say. 

 

I am very quiet and don't express my thoughts publically.  I do have a couple close LDS friends in another ward in our stake that I have talked to but I am always  respectful of boundaries.  

11 hours ago, rongo said:

The sad thing is that reaching out may have helped you tremendously. As you have said, you actually have wanted them to reach out and are hurt and bewildered that they haven't. 

The prior bishop visited once.  We had a nice chat and I told him vaguely some of the reasons I was where I was at but we did not drill into it and he did not seem to want to. I did tell him contact and visits were welcome.

11 hours ago, rongo said:

Maybe you should make the first move and break the ice by going back.  

Believe it or not I do consider this at times.  I never say never.

[rchorse]

20 hours ago, Teancum said:

Just so ya all know, I am rather sad nobody from my ward reaches out. I have never asked them not to. I was the bishop of the ward for almost 6 years.  I was on the HC for 4 years after that.  I was an EQ president, YM president, ward mission leader and on and on.  Not in a boasting way, but I have been a fairly prominent member of my ward and stake for 40 years.  I stop attending and hardly anyone asks what is going on. Even close friends.  So why is that?  I would be quite fine with visits from my ward.  I still give to the fast offering fund every year. A substantial amount.

When someone goes inactive or leaves the church, I think a lot of people just assume they won't want contact or that they'll respond with hostility. I think most church members have been burned a time or two reaching out to people, and it makes them hesitant. The hard part is overcoming that fear of rejection or conflict and at least asking what people want. I think the reasons others have mentioned are also valid. There are as many different reasons as there are different people. Even being active, I find that most friendships tend to dwindle if both parties don't make regularly make an effort to stay connected. It's just human nature. Out of sight, out of mind is unfortunately a huge factor in most human relationships.

I currently minister to a sister who multiple people in the ward told me did not want contact. She never responded to my calls, texts, or emails, but my companion and I were able to catch her at home finally, and she was very friendly and not remotely hostile. I think she just didn't care enough about "ministers" or "ministering" to bother responding to the other forms of contact from someone she had never met.

We (especially me) definitely need to do better at just loving and fellowshipping people regardless of belief or lack of belief.

[rongo]

I'm not a fan of the suggestion in the OP that we group ministering according to shared interests or shared demographics. That can be and is a factor in how the assignments are decided, but if that is the sole consideration, it will lead to the further fracturing and, for lack of a better term, "a la carte specialization" in the Church (where people don't branch out and only pursue what they want or can get out of church). This looks at the Church solely in terms of "how does it meet my needs," and reminds me of President Faust's comment in the first Worldwide training broadcast that people see marriage as an institution for meeting the needs of the spouses, when it is actually is an institution for raising children (his definition). 

I think modern society, bleeding over into the Church, obsesses over this "what's in it for me, and what can I get out of it?" angle, which is antithetical to the purpose of the Church, service, branching out, etc. 

 

[kimpearson]

Why does no one mention the thought that the abysmal home teaching/ministering results of the last 40 years (the time frame I have participated) might be the result of our Church culture, level of true compassion and erroneous instruction of ministering.  The first problem I see is that most members have very shallow relationships with other members.  Everything is on the surface, everything is fine and I don't really want to deal with your personal struggles.  There is almost a universal aversion of both sides of following Alma's admonition to "to mourn with those that mourn; yea, and comfort those that stand in need of comfort".  Now I know there are exceptions to this in every ward and some wards are much better than others but I believe this is generally true of over half of active members.  All most all active members have some other members in the ward they do have deep strong relationships with.  They mistake these relationships as evidence of their compassion and love for others when such relationships are actually quite selfish and often exclusionary.   Church culture is very outward focused.  I show up at church every Sunday.  I or my family dress nice.  I attend all the ward events.  I serve in callings that for the most part other members see me serving.  I bear my testimony that I know the church is true.  I attend the temple and serve dead people that require no interaction.  The most important thing in living life is self reliance and those who are not good with self reliance or struggle with it are looked down upon.  I demonstrate service by mowing lawns, cooking meals or giving fast offerings.   Teaching each week focuses on the eternal family, the covenant path (temple attendance), stay worthy and the repetition of the same old answers a million times in lessons and talks.  Most talks focus on general conference talks with lots of quotes and scripture but almost no revelation of the true inner feelings of the speaker.   And the biggest problems of all, we never must talk of these shortcomings publicly in Church because we only discuss the positive.  With our inactive members, we never want to just listen to the true reasons such members aren't attending.  Often if we do listen, as soon as we are out the door,  we are dismissing those reasons to our companion as errant, evidence of a lack of faith or dumb because we just "know" why their issues are wrong.

Bottom line from the General Authorities to the newest member of the Church, as a whole, we are failing miserably at compassion and an honest desire to truly help each other with difficult struggles and personal doubts through ministering.  Ministering is generally a huge failure but we must never admit that because it is an inspired program and we will only hear reports of the successes in meetings, in print and from general authorities.

I know many will disagree and I would love to hear of the wards where ministering is going very well for everybody including the inactive.  I don't want to hear personal stories.  I do my ministering and have built some of the relationships that mean the most to me with those I minister too so I know individuals throughout the Church are doing a good job.  In my ward, the elder's quorum president told me that we can't be expected to minister to all the inactive members because the active members have lives to live and jobs to do to earn a living so we only focus on the active and semi-active.   In my ward ministering to the active and semi-active is less than 25% and the leaders are wondering why.  We got a lecture last 5th Sunday about how our covenants require us to minister by the 2nd counselor in the bishopric.  Did I mention this counselor ministers to my family and we have had contact with him directly maybe three times in the last 2 years, one phone call, one Christmas gift drop off and a 3 or 4 minute discussion at church once.  He does shake my hand and say hello at Church most Sundays.

[rchorse]

18 minutes ago, kimpearson said:

In my ward, the elder's quorum president told me that we can't be expected to minister to all the inactive members because the active members have lives to live and jobs to do to earn a living so we only focus on the active and semi-active. 

This is so exactly backwards to me that I'm struggling to comprehend it. There are limited time and resources for ministering, so they think those should be used on the people least likely to need ministering? I get that if you have 10 active members and 90 inactive households that need ministering, you probably won't be able to minister to all 90 effectively or even at all. But I can't understand how the next step in the thought process is to have those 10 active members just minister to each other and not worry about the 90 that are inactive.

[kimpearson]

3 hours ago, rchorse said:

This is so exactly backwards to me that I'm struggling to comprehend it. There are limited time and resources for ministering, so they think those should be used on the people least likely to need ministering? I get that if you have 10 active members and 90 inactive households that need ministering, you probably won't be able to minister to all 90 effectively or even at all. But I can't understand how the next step in the thought process is to have those 10 active members just minister to each other and not worry about the 90 that are inactive.

Yes what was even more amazing is he said it during a phone call to chastise me for preaching the false doctrine that the Church's position on marriage the blacks had changed since the beginning of the Church.  He said I had an agenda to destroy the Church so I asked him what his agenda was which included how are we as a quorum going to minister to the inactive in the ward? 

[The Nehor]

23 hours ago, kimpearson said:

Yes what was even more amazing is he said it during a phone call to chastise me for preaching the false doctrine that the Church's position on marriage the blacks had changed since the beginning of the Church.  He said I had an agenda to destroy the Church so I asked him what his agenda was which included how are we as a quorum going to minister to the inactive in the ward? 

How did that even come up? Do I want to know?

[kimpearson]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

How did that even come up? Do I want to know?

Just a discussion in priesthood meeting during a lesson on what is truth.

[mfbukowski]

On 12/8/2021 at 9:16 AM, Chum said:

Maybe once did I live within walking distance of another member. Generally they're miles away. I've had HT routes where the closest stop was a 45 min trip.  I figure most of the planet is like that.

Well obviously you are not in Utah.

This is a very Utah-centric board.

Most of the planet is what you suggest, I think.  We are in what Utahns call "the mission field "

 

[mfbukowski]

On 12/10/2021 at 9:09 PM, kimpearson said:

Just a discussion in priesthood meeting during a lesson on what is truth.

I like that hymn, "Jose, What Is Truth"?

[Navidad]

While I think many of the posts in this thread offer great insight, let me offer a bit of a different view. My wife and I have in the last several months ceased regular attendance in the ward. We have begun the long trek (1.25 hours) south of here to the nearest Mennonite community to attend church. That change has not been a spiritually uplifting experience. The Mennonite services are a combination of German, Low German, Spanish, with a  sprinkling of English. Sermons are all in low German with headphones for translation to Spanish. In some ways there is more cultural difference between us and the more conservative Mennonites than between us and our English ward friends in the LDS Church.

Since general and stake conferences in October, we have been heading south on Sundays instead of the fifteen minute drive north to the chapel. We had no falling-out, no stress greater than that which comes with being on the edge of inside of a group that is as much or more cultural than theological - similar to what we are finding in attending Old Colony Russian Mennonite services. In fact heading south we are probably more on the outside in what is a group of our own faith.

What my point is in telling about our journey is that we have been wrapped in good wishes, kindnesses, concerns, expressions of worry, good old-fashioned love from our LDS ward friends. Yesterday was my wife's birthday. Ladies from the RS came to the house with gifts, cards, and expressions of love and of missing her. I cried when I read the comments on the cards she received. Our folks have definitely let us know that they miss us (we never joined - we were what our bishop called faithful non-members).

We miss them too. Oh, and yesterday the primary leaders phoned to ask me to read the Christmas Story to the children at this week's ward Christmas party. I was surprised and delighted to accept. Our ward family has embraced us even as we drew away. That was the best ministry they ever could have done. They have done it with grace and they have done it well!

[Kenngo1969]

I wish to add to my previous comments on the thread ... Just some food for thought, really: Take it for what it's worth (or not ... ). What's the lesson of the Parable of the Good Samaritan?  If we are unlike those to whom we minister, if we lack common interests, or even if we are so different as, seemingly, to have absolutely nothing in common (wouldn't the fact that both of us are members of the Master's flock disprove that assertion?), are we (or are we to be) like the priest, like the Levite, or like the Good Samaritan?

[CA Steve]

On 12/8/2021 at 8:59 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Terrify? Or bore? Personally, I'd rather spend my limited time around people who are more interesting than a 1970s anti-Mormon tract.

I know, right? I mean, if I want to read a 1970's anti-Mormon tract I can just read one of the church essays.