One easy fix to the lack of ministering

[Fether]

Assign like minded people to minister to each other.

Young married couples minister to young married couples. Young families minister to young families. Established families to established families. Empty nesters to empty nesters. Old people to old people.

I’m a young family and my companion is younger than me. We minister to three old dudes. We can talk to them and get to know them, but it is like pulling teeth.

The purpose of ministering is to make sure everyone is doing well and to develop relationships on the ward. This is far easier and far more affective when the people can actually relate. 
 

Why is this not a standard? I understand some leaders may feel inspired to mix it up a bit, but the vast majority of members don’t need a miracle ministering member, they just need someone in the ward they can call friend. That doesn’t happen between a 48 year old guy that likes hunting and a 26 year old guy that likes video games and architecture.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Fether

[BRMC]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

Assign like minded people to minister to each other.

Young married couples minister to young married couples. Young families minister to young families. Established families to established families. Empty nesters to empty nesters. Old people to old people.

I’m a young family and my companion is younger than me. We minister to three old dudes. We can talk to them and get to know them, but it is like pulling teeth.

The purpose of ministering is to make sure everyone is doing well and to develop relationships on the ward. This is far easier and far more affective when the people can actually relate. 
 

Why is this not a standard? I understand some leaders may feel i spired to mix it up a bit, but the vast majority of members don’t need a miracle ministering member, they just need someone in the ward they can call friend. That doesn’t happen between a 48 year old guy that likes hunting and a 26 year old guy that likes video games and architecture.

Perhaps there is more to the purpose of ministering?

[Fether]

14 minutes ago, BRMC said:

Perhaps there is more to the purpose of ministering?

Like what?

[BRMC]

1 minute ago, Fether said:

Like what?

Like a benefit to both parties, not just to make sure ever is doing well.  I was assigned an older family last year that had little in common with me.   I bring  my younger children to most service, and it's been pretty cool to watch the older couple bond with them.  I've learned quite a bit from this relationship both about myself, my boys, the Church  and relationships in general.   
 

Several years ago I had an odd experience that has changed my outlook.  I try to go into most things now with a side thought of "what am I supposed to learn from this?"

[Scott Lloyd]

As God’s covenant people, we need to have less segregation in the Church, not more. And we individually need to develop the capacity to minister to people in diverse circumstances. People in my ward whom I count as friends I probably would never have gotten to know were it not for the Church. 

[Fether]

1 minute ago, BRMC said:

Like a benefit to both parties, not just to make sure ever is doing well.  I was assigned an older family last year that had little in common with me.   I bring  my younger children to most service, and it's been pretty cool to watch the older couple bond with them.  I've learned quite a bit from this relationship both about myself, my boys, the Church  and relationships in general.   
 

Several years ago I had an odd experience that has changed my outlook.  I try to go into most things now with a side thought of "what am I supposed to learn from this?"

I definitely see the benefit on those types of relationships. And I’m all for the personal benefits of doing your ministering regardless of what the situation is. On a micro level, I love it.

But on a macro level, we hear the concern that only 1% of the church is doing ministering. That means there is an untold number of people who are not being reached at all. That 1% microcosm is doing great, but what about the other 99%?

You can have the best of both worlds if you made companionships out of people in both boats and keep their assignments to those two groups.

ie me and 60 year old bro Jones are companions and we minister to other young families and older people.

[Navidad]

There are three basic Greek words used in the New Testament to refer to a minister or ministering:

diakanos - is the most familiar; we get our word deacon from it. It usually involves serving to help someone else's interest, not your own. It is like when my wife and I help serve at funeral meals. We are serving the family's interest - not our own.

leitourgeo - We get our word liturgy from this one. It is a more formal term, often used to describe someone as a minister - filling a position or office in the service of others. In the best of all worlds it is used of political folks like the Minister of Education or the like. Hopefully they serve to serve! Not always, huh!

huperetes - My personal favorite and perhaps least used of the three. This is a compound Greek word coming from hupo - under and eretes - a rower. It signifies the one serving who can't really be seen. He or she keeps the ship moving in the right directions, but assumes a subservient position in so doing. I really like this concept of ministry or service. For example, it is the word used for "ministers" of Christ in I Cor 4:1 -  "Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God."  This person isn't the ship captain, navigator, or even the on deck seaman. This person is invisible  - the "under rower." I really like that concept. Three different words with three different meanings even though they share a common English word - minister or ministry.

Lord - in my ministry make me willing to be an "under-rower" for You! That is my prayer.

Edited December 7, 2021 by Navidad

[Fether]

9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As God’s covenant people, we need to have less segregation in the Church, not more.

On paper this looks beautiful. But when applied it doesn’t apply the way you think. Who you minister to doesn’t have anything to do with segregation. It’s about building the organization in a way that people are taken care of. Ministering is maybe 10% of my church social life. The silly banter with 80 year bro Steele in Priesthood is not going to stop because he isn’t my companion. Cool kids table is not going to form at the Christmas party because we are only ministering to people our age.

 

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

we individually need to develop the capacity to minister to people in diverse circumstances.

I agree, and I have been doing this. On a personal level, this is not an issue. The issue is the vast majority of members are not doing ministering because the idea of approaching someone you were assigned to look after who you have nothing in common with and is 30 years older/younger than you feels awkward and disingenuous. Many of those that need to learn to minister to people in diverse circumstances lack the social ability to do so.
 

It is like asking a toddler to go ride a road bike. instead we should be giving them training wheels, then a small bike, then a road bike.

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, Fether said:

On paper this looks beautiful. But when applied it doesn’t apply the way you think. Who you minister to doesn’t have anything to do with segregation. It’s about building the organization in a way that people are taken care of. Ministering is maybe 10% of my church social life. The silly banter with 80 year bro Steele in Priesthood is not going to stop because he isn’t my companion. Cool kids table is not going to form at the Christmas party because we are only ministering to people our age.

 

I agree, and I have been doing this. On a personal level, this is not an issue. The issue is the vast majority of members are not doing ministering because the idea of approaching someone you were assigned to look after who you have nothing in common with and is 30 years older/younger than you feels awkward and disingenuous. Many of those that need to learn to minister to people in diverse circumstances lack the social ability to do so.
 

It is like asking a toddler to go ride a road bike. instead we should be giving them training wheels, then a small bike, then a road bike.

What you say makes sense. But in general, we don’t start to grow until we get out of our comfort zones. And though we’ll probably never reach the “on-paper” ideal (not in mortality, anyway) that shouldn’t stop us from charting a course toward it. It’s part of becoming a Zion people. 

[Fether]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

What you say makes sense. But in general, we don’t start to grow until we get out of our comfort zones. And though we’ll probably never reach the “on-paper” ideal (not in mortality, anyway) that shouldn’t stop us from charting a course toward it. It’s part of becoming a Zion people. 

You are 100% correct 👍 you really are. But I think your missing the point.

I feel as though you are trying to talk to someone who wants easier ministering. Someone who is complaining about the difficulty of the way. You are not. I’m talking about making ministering more affective.

For those 1%, we continue to give them special cases where they can do more. But for the 99% that aren’t doing it any way, why not make it easier for them?

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Assign like minded people to minister to each other.

Young married couples minister to young married couples. Young families minister to young families. Established families to established families. Empty nesters to empty nesters. Old people to old people.

I’m a young family and my companion is younger than me. We minister to three old dudes. We can talk to them and get to know them, but it is like pulling teeth.

The purpose of ministering is to make sure everyone is doing well and to develop relationships on the ward. This is far easier and far more affective when the people can actually relate. 
 

Why is this not a standard? I understand some leaders may feel inspired to mix it up a bit, but the vast majority of members don’t need a miracle ministering member, they just need someone in the ward they can call friend. That doesn’t happen between a 48 year old guy that likes hunting and a 26 year old guy that likes video games and architecture.

This would be ideal, but the numbers don't always work out.

When we're contemplating ministering assignments we'll also look at proximity. Neighbors ministering to neighbors.

Making it standard? I think it could be encouraged, but their are too many variations between units across the church for any sort of directive from church HQ to be needed. This also, as noted earlier, diminishes the role of revelation in the assignment process.

[Fether]

14 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

When we're contemplating ministering assignments we'll also look at proximity. Neighbors ministering to neighbors.

In areas with a high density of members (Idaho down through NV and AZ), proximity really shouldn’t be a major factor. Everywhere else it is important.

14 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

Making it standard? I think it could be encouraged, but their are too many variations between units across the church for any sort of directive from church HQ to be needed. This also, as noted earlier, diminishes the role of revelation in the assignment process.

I agree, change between needs. And when I say standard, I mean it should be the goal. But inspiration and circumstances can always change that. 

I’m a believer that the vast majority of callings don’t require a burst of spiritual revelation. God just needs work done and often times he doesn’t care who does it. 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Fether

[BRMC]

37 minutes ago, Fether said:

 

For those 1%, we continue to give them special cases where they can do more. But for the 99% that aren’t doing it any way, why not make it easier for them?

It goes back to what I said earlier:  maybe there is more to it.  There are many things that can be changed in the Church that would make it easier.   I don't particularly worry about them, personally.  I worry about trying to do what I've been asked as best as I can. 
 

I completely agree with your point and I'm not disputing it. You asked why this isn't standard, and I'm just offering some food for thought.   

[ksfisher]

4 minutes ago, Fether said:

In areas with a high density of members (Idaho down through NV and AZ), proximity really shouldn’t be a major factor. Everywhere else it is important.

When I'm saying proximity I'm thinking about 3 or 4 houses away.  Someone who you'd naturally reach out to if you need help or who you see when you go outside.

[Fether]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

When I'm saying proximity I'm thinking about 3 or 4 houses away.  Someone who you'd naturally reach out to if you need help or who you see when you go outside.

Personally, I’ll be quicker to reach out to my close friend who lives 2 blocks away than my neighbors, who I know and talk to, but don’t relate to as readily. I think social proximity is a bigger factor than physician proximity.

This of course changes if your neighbor is an 80 year old widow. On such cases, absolutely have the neighbor minister to them.
 

Thought and Inspiration still needs to be a factor, but I get the feeling that the standard is “roll the dice unless we feel particular about a specific assignment”. Instead, I just suggest the standard is to put like minded people together unless inspired to do otherwise

[Fether]

10 minutes ago, BRMC said:

It goes back to what I said earlier:  maybe there is more to it.  There are many things that can be changed in the Church that would make it easier.   I don't particularly worry about them, personally.  I worry about trying to do what I've been asked as best as I can. 
 

I completely agree with your point and I'm not disputing it. You asked why this isn't standard, and I'm just offering some food for thought.   

To clarify myself, when I say standard, I am not meaning the church should come out and say “this is how we do it”. I’m just saying that as leaders, we should make this the effort.

I dont think there is some secret reason for ministering that we can’t see, so we should maintain the status quo. Rather, I think the church is run by volunteers that don’t have training in organization management.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

As God’s covenant people, we need to have less segregation in the Church, not more. And we individually need to develop the capacity to minister to people in diverse circumstances. People in my ward whom I count as friends I probably would never have gotten to know were it not for the Church. 

There is an essay called Why the Church is True As the Gospel that addresses the benefits of interacting with those we typically would never choose or have opportunity to interact with. Several well written pages you summarize almost perfectly here, imo. I would simply add “and the capacity to relate to and understand” after “minister to” though your last sentence implies that quite well….I just want it emphasized a bit more. 

 

Quote

LET US CONSIDER why this is so. In the life of the true Church, there are constant opportunities for all to serve, especially to learn to serve people we would not nor­mally choose to serve—or possibly even associate with—and thus opportunities to learn to love unconditionally. There is constant encouragement, even pressure, to be “active”: to have a calling” and thus to have to grapple with relationships and management, with other peoples ideas and wishes, their feel­ings and failures; to attend classes and meetings and to have to listen to other people’s sometimes misinformed or prejudiced notions and to have to make some constructive response; to have leaders and occasionally to be hurt by their weakness and blindness, even unrighteous dominion; and then to be made a leader and find that you, too, with all the best intentions, can be weak and blind and unrighteous. Church involvement teaches us compassion and patience as well as courage and dis­cipline. It makes us responsible for the personal and marital, physical, and spiritual welfare of people we may not already love (or may even heartily dislike), and thus we learn to love them. It stretches and challenges us, though disappointed and exasperated, in ways we would not otherwise choose to be— and thus gives us a chance to be made better than we might choose to be, but ultimately need and want to be.

The essay is online and I encourage anyone who hasn’t read it to do so. 
 

https://www.eugeneengland.org/why-the-church-is-as-true-as-the-gospel

[CA Steve]

I like to golf. Golf courses like to send out foursome which many times I do not have. Usually the course will fill in the missing people with other groups or singles. Going in to play i always try and avoid getting those extra people placed in my group because i am uncomfortable with strangers.  Over decades of playing i can only think of one time that i did not enjoy meeting and playing with those added people. I realize the problem with new people is wholly of my own making.

[BRMC]

40 minutes ago, Fether said:

To clarify myself, when I say standard, I am not meaning the church should come out and say “this is how we do it”. I’m just saying that as leaders, we should make this the effort.

I dont think there is some secret reason for ministering that we can’t see, so we should maintain the status quo. Rather, I think the church is run by volunteers that don’t have training in organization management.

Sure.  I don't claim to have all the answers.  For that matter, I don't claim to have any answers, only opinions as I muddle through life trying to serve as best as I can.  

[Fether]

21 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

I like to golf. Golf courses like to send out foursome which many times I do not have. Usually the course will fill in the missing people with other groups or singles. Going in to play i always try and avoid getting those extra people placed in my group because i am uncomfortable with strangers.  Over decades of playing i can only think of one time that i did not enjoy meeting and playing with those added people. I realize the problem with new people is wholly of my own making.

All were like minded people that had something in common. I love for Golf

[Peacefully]

I don’t want to just minister to other old people, lol. Younger people are usually more open-minded and have fresh ideas. And when you think about it, as a YW President I “ministered” to very young people, same in primary. I think it is a mind-set, but I do see what you are saying. Maybe we should find out what works for each person. 

[bluebell]

31 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

I like to golf. Golf courses like to send out foursome which many times I do not have. Usually the course will fill in the missing people with other groups or singles. Going in to play i always try and avoid getting those extra people placed in my group because i am uncomfortable with strangers.  Over decades of playing i can only think of one time that i did not enjoy meeting and playing with those added people. I realize the problem with new people is wholly of my own making.

I can relate to this. Escape Rooms usual have a certain number of people who have to be in the room so they will combine random groups to fill the room. I refuse to play under those circumstances. I’d buy out the whole room if we don’t have the correct number rather than have strangers added. I am an introvert through and through.

I’d rather have surgery than make small talk. 

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

Thought and Inspiration still needs to be a factor, but I get the feeling that the standard is “roll the dice unless we feel particular about a specific assignment”. Instead, I just suggest the standard is to put like minded people together unless inspired to do otherwise

Have you been part of an elder's quorum presidency before?

[Navidad]

I am not real sure that matching ages has much to do with it. I think the key to successful ministry is discernment about what those who one is ministering to actually need. Needs vary as much as do the folks who have them. I think the ministry must be aimed at the receiver's needs, not the minister's or what some guidebook says about defining successful ministry.

For about three years here, we had the same two gentlemen ministering to my wife and me. They were very comfortable with each other and were life-long best friends. The one thing they never did that was the best thing they could have done (does that make sense?). They never overtly tried to "convert" us. That would have chased us away quite quickly. We were looking for fellowship and worship; not to find what we had already found.

One of the great old Billy Graham crusade hymns is  titled "Just as I am." It was critical, especially in the early years that our ministers accept us "just as we are." That may go against some church teachings, but they did it anyway, as did our bishop. We reciprocated and as a result built a good relationship.

One of our ministers is now dying of cancer and it breaks my heart. He can't come over any more. We really miss him. Our other minister is a rancher and what I called growing up in a rural Mennonite area a "water witch." He dowses and earns a nice income telling ranchers and farmers where to dig their wells. I grew up with that, so I was comfortable with it. He also pounded rebar stakes into our property to stop the currents from underground water flows that are, in his understanding unhealthy. We must have twenty stakes on our house property! Well . . . we do have pretty good health!

Ministry is hard. I appreciate our friends' hard work at trying to be for us what we needed . . . and for all the rebar in our front, side, and back yard!

Edited December 7, 2021 by Navidad

[Tacenda]

I disagree, from personal experience. My most memorable visits were to an elderly woman, and from an elderly woman in two different situations. Back then it was called visiting teaching. Too often we don't get to hear from the older folks and their precious wisdom. And maybe the youth to the older person, with theirs.