One easy fix to the lack of ministering

[Islander]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:54 AM, Fether said:

Assign like minded people to minister to each other.

Young married couples minister to young married couples. Young families minister to young families. Established families to established families. Empty nesters to empty nesters. Old people to old people.

I’m a young family and my companion is younger than me. We minister to three old dudes. We can talk to them and get to know them, but it is like pulling teeth.

The purpose of ministering is to make sure everyone is doing well and to develop relationships on the ward. This is far easier and far more affective when the people can actually relate. 
 

Why is this not a standard? I understand some leaders may feel inspired to mix it up a bit, but the vast majority of members don’t need a miracle ministering member, they just need someone in the ward they can call friend. That doesn’t happen between a 48 year old guy that likes hunting and a 26 year old guy that likes video games and architecture.

The problem is and has always been apathy. Lack of caring and disregard for the lives and needs of other. You can not institute a program that will provide what is missing. What I see is that whatever little ministering is being done is done out of "duty" rather than love. 

[MacGyver]

On 12/7/2021 at 3:40 PM, rongo said:

Home teaching was bad even before ministering. Ministering made it much easier to "not do," because it eliminated any reporting (ministering interviews simply ask about families, not visits or visitation record). 

I think the Brethren knew that less actual ministering was going to take place under ministering, despite the talks about how this is a raised bar. I think the intent was to assuage guilt by removing the reporting and making texting and social media "contact" on a par with actual contact. 

And the the Covid hibernation of the Church happened . . . 

I tend to agree. Home teaching was bad and the change to ministering and the removal of virtually all accountability has made it worse. The brethren had to have seen that coming. The bar was lowered significantly, not raised. If you want people to do something, they need more accountability, not less. That's just human nature.

I think that the diehard faithful home teachers and visiting teachers are still doing what they always did, even with the bar being lowered. But for someone like me, who has always struggled with home teaching, the switch to ministering didn't help. It did remove some guilt, but the amount of ministering I have done definitely dropped off dramatically. And as you pointed out, the Covid hibernation made it even worse. That's been my excuse anyway. 🙂

I wonder if the pendulum will swing back someday under a future church president and we will go back to a higher level of accountability, like we had under the home and visiting teaching programs.

 

[Kenngo1969]

@MacGyver

I agree with what you say here: I can't remember the exact wording or who said it, but the gist is that something that is monitored regularly tends to improve.  However, someone who was doing Home Teaching simply to "check off a box [monthly]" isn't going to be a good minister simply for his ability to do that.  I agree with the aim of persuading people to minister to others, not out of duty or obligation, but out of genuine love for one's brothers and sisters.  (And I say all of that as someone who could be, and needs to be, a much better minister.)

Thanks,

-Ken

[MacGyver]

2 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

@MacGyver

I agree with what you say here: I can't remember the exact wording or who said it, but the gist is that something that is monitored regularly tends to improve.  However, someone who was doing Home Teaching simply to "check off a box [monthly]" isn't going to be a good minister simply for his ability to do that.  I agree with the aim of persuading people to minister to others, not out of duty or obligation, but out of genuine love for one's brothers and sisters.  (And I say all of that as someone who could be, and needs to be, a much better minister.)

Thanks,

-Ken

I agree with what you are saying about individuals doing home and visiting teaching in order to check off the box each month. That's of course not the reason to do it, and I'm sure the switch to ministering was trying to address that.

At the same time, I think it's a lot better to visit someone each month out of duty than to do nothing or virtually nothing for them. 

[BRMC]

12 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

 

At the same time, I think it's a lot better to visit someone each month out of duty than to do nothing or virtually nothing for them. 

That duty hasn't changed.   

[MacGyver]

27 minutes ago, BRMC said:

That duty hasn't changed.   

We still have a duty to minister to assigned individuals and families. But there is no more expectation of a monthly visit and no real accountability. Which is why the level of ministering has actually gone down since the switch from home and visiting teaching to ministering. 

Edited December 23, 2021 by MacGyver

[jkwilliams]

On 12/21/2021 at 12:16 AM, Islander said:

The problem is and has always been apathy. Lack of caring and disregard for the lives and needs of other. You can not institute a program that will provide what is missing. What I see is that whatever little ministering is being done is done out of "duty" rather than love. 

Yup. We haven’t had “ministers” since before they stopped calling them “home and visiting teachers.” It’s literally been years since anyone has visited. It doesn’t matter to me, but I feel bad that my active, believing wife is ignored. Perhaps there’s some new rule about visiting part-active families that I’m unaware of. 

[BRMC]

2 minutes ago, MacGyver said:

You're right. We still have a duty to minister to assigned individuals and families. But there is no more expectation of a monthly visit and no real accountability. Which is why the level of ministering has actually gone down since the switch from home and visiting teaching to ministering. 

For some it has.  I believe it's improved in my life.   I am developing real friendships, or relationships of some sort, with my assignments.   I realize the "numbers" might not look the same, and some people need someone to force them to minister to their brothers and sisters, but I'd argue those aren't quality anyway.   I think the pressure of "BRMC is just calling to schedule his monthly visit because he's required to" has softened.  Oddly, one of my ministering assignments (who hasn't been active in the Church as long as I've been in the ward) calls me as much as I call him, if not more.   He called this week to make sure I pick him up next year's CFM manual and we talked about a podcast about the lessons that he just started listening to.   

That said, I know I still get called regularly by the EQP to discuss my ministering assignments.  I'll ask him this week at the Ward Council meeting how the "numbers" are and what his thoughts are on the change.

[MacGyver]

7 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Yup. We haven’t had “ministers” since before they stopped calling them “home and visiting teachers.” It’s literally been years since anyone has visited. It doesn’t matter to me, but I feel bad that my active, believing wife is ignored. 

I haven't had any come by since the change either. My neighbor and his 15 year-old son three doors down has been my ministering brothers for about two years now. He hasn't come by. But we do talk a lot and I consider him to be a friend, so it's not a big deal. Under the new program, that certainly counts. 

I miss the old days of home teaching, though. It was a blessing to have the home teachers come over and share a lesson once a month (or as often as they made it out). I also know that it was a blessing for me to go home teaching and get to know people, teach them a lesson, and provide service when needed. Of course I can and should still do those things, and just need to get my butt in gear, even without any real accountability or expectation anymore. 

13 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Perhaps there’s some new rule about visiting part-active families that I’m unaware of. 

No such rule exists. It's just your "ministers" dropping the ball. And the no-accountability ministering program and the Covid shutdown are likely a major factors for why they have been dropping the ball.

[BRMC]

24 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

Perhaps there’s some new rule about visiting part-active families that I’m unaware of. 

Nope.  In fact, all my new ministering assignments are mostly inactive.  I typically seem to get assigned inactive families.   They don't contact her at all, or they just don't stop by and/or teach?   

[jkwilliams]

Just now, BRMC said:

Nope.  In fact, all my new ministering assignments are mostly inactive.  I typically seem to get assigned inactive families.   They don't contact her at all, or they just don't stop by and/or teach?   

Not a phone call nor a note nor a visit. It’s been at least 4 years. 

[BRMC]

Just now, jkwilliams said:

Not a phone call nor a note nor a visit. It’s been at least 4 years. 

And she still attends Church and relief society meetings?   Is she solidly active?   I ask that, because some of our solid members get assigned weaker ministering brothers and sisters.  I think this is because the EQP assigns the stronger people to those that are struggling or need it more.    I'm not condoning or saying this is the right thing to do, I'm just saying I've been in meetings where they are looking at a short list of strong members and a long list of people that really need the support.   

[Kenngo1969]

As far as [alleged] lack of accountability goes, while the extent to which this happens might vary, I know I've gotten calls (and, pre-pandemic, visited in person with) a member of my Elders Quorum presidency regarding the welfare of my ministering families.  I consider such visits fundamentally different from (and, in fact, infinitely superior to) the sort of "check-the-monthly-box" "accountability" that may have prevailed before.

[BRMC]

Just now, Kenngo1969 said:

As far as [alleged] lack of accountability goes, while the extent to which this happens might vary, I know I've gotten calls (and, pre-pandemic, visited in person with) a member of my Elders Quorum presidency regarding the welfare of my ministering families.  I consider such visits fundamentally different from (and, in fact, infinitely superior to) the sort of "check-the-monthly-box" "accountability" that may have prevailed before.

Same.  I get formal interviews, but also regular check-ins concerning them.

[jkwilliams]

7 minutes ago, BRMC said:

And she still attends Church and relief society meetings?   Is she solidly active?   I ask that, because some of our solid members get assigned weaker ministering brothers and sisters.  I think this is because the EQP assigns the stronger people to those that are struggling or need it more.    I'm not condoning or saying this is the right thing to do, I'm just saying I've been in meetings where they are looking at a short list of strong members and a long list of people that really need the support.   

She’s as solid a member as there is. 

[rodheadlee]

On 12/7/2021 at 9:36 AM, Fether said:

I definitely see the benefit on those types of relationships. And I’m all for the personal benefits of doing your ministering regardless of what the situation is. On a micro level, I love it.

But on a macro level, we hear the concern that only 1% of the church is doing ministering. That means there is an untold number of people who are not being reached at all. That 1% microcosm is doing great, but what about the other 99%?

You can have the best of both worlds if you made companionships out of people in both boats and keep their assignments to those two groups.

ie me and 60 year old bro Jones are companions and we minister to other young families and older people.

Did somebody say boat? We are an older couple that live on a boat. The young missionaries love coming over to our place for dinner. It's a sailboat and it's difficult for overweight or  elderly people to come aboard. It was a rare occasion when someone our own age came over from the church.

Edited December 24, 2021 by rodheadlee

[Hamba Tuhan]

5 hours ago, MacGyver said:

The removal of virtually all accountability has made it worse ...

 

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

But there is no more expectation of a monthly visit and no real accountability.

 

3 hours ago, MacGyver said:

Of course I can and should still do those things, and just need to get my butt in gear, even without any real accountability or expectation anymore ...

And the no-accountability ministering program and the Covid shutdown are likely a major factors for why they have been dropping the ball.

I'm confused by your posts. What do you consider quarterly (or more frequent) ministering interviews with a member of the elders quorum presidency if not accountability?

[Peacefully]

My newly assigned ministering sister brought me some Christmas treats tonight:) I haven’t heard from anyone as far as ministering since we moved into this ward a couple of years ago. It’s not something I really worry about since we are pretty self-sufficient and I know there are people we could call if we really needed something, but I thought it was a pleasant surprise nonetheless:) 

Edited December 24, 2021 by Peacefully

[MacGyver]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I'm confused by your posts. What do you consider quarterly (or more frequent) ministering interviews with a member of the elders quorum presidency if not accountability?

Well I think I have had maybe two quarterly interviews with a member of the Elders Quorum presidency since the switch to ministering and none in over two years. In over two years no one has asked me how my families are doing or what I'm doing to minister to them. I consider that to be zero accountability. 

Prior to the switch to ministering I would be asked at least quarterly, often monthly, how my assigned families were doing and which months I had visited them. 

I was an Elders Quorum President twice back in the home teaching days, so I know that the accountability has gone way down since the switch was made to ministering. 

[MacGyver]

6 hours ago, BRMC said:

For some it has.  I believe it's improved in my life.   I am developing real friendships, or relationships of some sort, with my assignments.   I realize the "numbers" might not look the same, and some people need someone to force them to minister to their brothers and sisters, but I'd argue those aren't quality anyway.   I think the pressure of "BRMC is just calling to schedule his monthly visit because he's required to" has softened.  Oddly, one of my ministering assignments (who hasn't been active in the Church as long as I've been in the ward) calls me as much as I call him, if not more.   He called this week to make sure I pick him up next year's CFM manual and we talked about a podcast about the lessons that he just started listening to.   

That said, I know I still get called regularly by the EQP to discuss my ministering assignments.  I'll ask him this week at the Ward Council meeting how the "numbers" are and what his thoughts are on the change.

I think it's great that the switch to ministering has been better for you and for your assigned families. 

For me this has not been the case.

Admittedly, a lot of this is my own fault as I could definitely do a better job ministering to my assigned families. Which I intend to do moving forward, even with little to no accountability from the church. 

[BRMC]

7 hours ago, MacGyver said:

 

Admittedly, a lot of this is my own fault as I could definitely do a better job ministering to my assigned families. Which I intend to do moving forward, even with little to no accountability from the church. 

That's wonderful, and what I believe Christ wants.

[Tacenda]

15 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Not a phone call nor a note nor a visit. It’s been at least 4 years. 

I'd have loved just a phone call with my ministering sisters. Someone to talk to. That's all it would take, even if they at first were doing it out of duty, hopefully I would have been someone they'd like to speak to. But life gets so busy, that people aren't like the good old days.

In my "visiting teaching" days towards the end, I think I may have been one of those that was put with those that really didn't want to be bothered. I felt like a stalker trying to get a visit in. It was almost dehumanizing, that I was put in a position like that. 

In my earlier years of visiting teaching I had some amazing sisters that either visited or I visited them (and fantastic home teachers for the most part).  Some things seem to have changed in this day and age or maybe it's me, not sure. But had to put a stop in my recent ward when the ministering became drop off only. The husband generally bringing a gift and dropping it off. The wife didn't care for me much, she wouldn't talk to me or wave hello. So I didn't want them wasting their money. So we no longer have them. The ones before that were excellent, but they've moved to Boston. 

 

[jkwilliams]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'd have loved just a phone call with my ministering sisters. Someone to talk to. That's all it would take, even if they at first were doing it out of duty, hopefully I would have been someone they'd like to speak to. But life gets so busy, that people aren't like the good old days.

In my "visiting teaching" days towards the end, I think I may have been one of those that was put with those that really didn't want to be bothered. I felt like a stalker trying to get a visit in. It was almost dehumanizing, that I was put in a position like that. 

In my earlier years of visiting teaching I had some amazing sisters that either visited or I visited them (and fantastic home teachers for the most part).  Some things seem to have changed in this day and age or maybe it's me, not sure. But had to put a stop in my recent ward when the ministering became drop off only. The husband generally bringing a gift and dropping it off. The wife didn't care for me much, she wouldn't talk to me or wave hello. So I didn't want them wasting their money. So we no longer have them. The ones before that were excellent, but they've moved to Boston. 

 

Oddly enough, I always really believed in home teaching and enjoyed doing it. My father wasn’t the most “orthodox” Mormon, but he loved those we home taught and taught us by example to love them, as well. I never understood why people treated home teaching like an inconvenient chore. 

I don’t mean that to suggest I was better than anyone. Home teaching is just something I have always admired about the church. It helped me overcome my inherent shyness and was a blessing in my life. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by jkwilliams

[Tacenda]

7 hours ago, jkwilliams said:

Oddly enough, I always really believed in home teaching and enjoyed doing it. My father wasn’t the most “orthodox” Mormon, but he loved those we home taught and taught us by example to love them, as well. I never understood why people treated home teaching like an inconvenient chore. 

I don’t mean that to suggest I was better than anyone. Home teaching is just something I have always admired about the church. It helped me overcome my inherent shyness and was a blessing in my life. 

I loved the visits with people, I guess I didn't have a huge amount of social things going on outside of church, to this day too. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 12/24/2021 at 5:38 PM, MacGyver said:

Well I think I have had maybe two quarterly interviews with a member of the Elders Quorum presidency since the switch to ministering and none in over two years.

It sounds like you have at least three levels of failure in your stake: you, your elders quorum presidency, and the stake presidency member/ward adviser who oversee your elders quorum presidency. I'm glad you determined to fix the first level!

Edited December 26, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan