One easy fix to the lack of ministering

[Amulek]

Is the lack of ministering a bug or a feature? Inquiring misanthropes want to know.  

 

[rongo]

27 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Is the lack of ministering a bug or a feature? Inquiring misanthropes want to know.  

Home teaching was bad even before ministering. Ministering made it much easier to "not do," because it eliminated any reporting (ministering interviews simply ask about families, not visits or visitation record). 

I think the Brethren knew that less actual ministering was going to take place under ministering, despite the talks about how this is a raised bar. I think the intent was to assuage guilt by removing the reporting and making texting and social media "contact" on a par with actual contact. 

And the the Covid hibernation of the Church happened . . . 

[Raingirl]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

I disagree, from personal experience. My most memorable visits were to an elderly woman, and from an elderly woman in two different situations. Back then it was called visiting teaching. Too often we don't get to hear from the older folks and their precious wisdom. And maybe the youth to the older person, with theirs. 

Thumbs-up to this. 

[bluebell]

37 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Is the lack of ministering a bug or a feature? Inquiring misanthropes want to know.  

 

The perk of the new ministering is that you don't have to have visits if that doesn't meet your needs.  As a before mentioned introvert, I can hallelujah to that.  I love knowing that there is someone that I can call in an emergency or if I need help with something.  Love that feature.

Just please don't show up at my house once a month.  I'm so glad that the Brethren changed it so that people don't feel like they have to go over in person just so they can tick a box or say they went.  Ministering should serve the people.  It shouldn't be the people serving ministering.

[BRMC]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The perk of the new ministering is that you don't have to have visits if that doesn't meet your needs.  As a before mentioned introvert, I can hallelujah to that.  I love knowing that there is someone that I can call in an emergency or if I need help with something.  Love that feature.

Just please don't show up at my house once a month.  I'm so glad that the Brethren changed it so that people don't feel like they have to go over in person just so they can tick a box or say they went.  Ministering should serve the people.  It shouldn't be the people serving ministering.

Neither of my current "assignments" are active in the Church.  They haven't been responsive to anyone.   I've respected their space, and each of them now call me for assistance when they need it.  The most standoffish member called me for a blessing.   Whether I'm doing it right or wrong, at least they now connect to the Church in at least a small way.   

[rongo]

3 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The perk of the new ministering is that you don't have to have visits if that doesn't meet your needs.  As a before mentioned introvert, I can hallelujah to that.  I love knowing that there is someone that I can call in an emergency or if I need help with something.  Love that feature.

Just please don't show up at my house once a month.  I'm so glad that the Brethren changed it so that people don't feel like they have to go over in person just so they can tick a box or say they went.  Ministering should serve the people.  It shouldn't be the people serving ministering.

Our home teacher is a high-functioning man with some form of mental retardation (that is too harsh, but there are profound cognitive issues). He has a heart of gold and a huge testimony, and he decides on his own whom he wants to home teach (leaders have talked to him and tried to dissuade him --- especially when he visits people who already have home teachers --- but he is zeroed in on the families he wants to visit). He served a proselyting mission, but would be assigned a service mission today. He reminds us a lot of Lenny from Of Mice and Men. 

Your head would explode at this, but he not only makes monthly appointments, they are very rough "brainstorms" as far as times. He is liable to come anywhere within an hour and a half before the set appointment time.  He's such a sweetheart, we don't have the heart to try to get out of it. We feel bad for his companion --- the other active priest in the ward besides our son whose dad isn't a member.

Since I'm now in the EQP, we made them our official home teachers. 

[Fether]

2 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Have you been part of an elder's quorum presidency before?

Yep

[Fether]

1 hour ago, Navidad said:

I am not real sure that matching ages has much to do with it. I think the key to successful ministry is discernment about what those who one is ministering to actually need. Needs vary as much as do the folks who have them. I think the ministry must be aimed at the receiver's needs, not the minister's or what some guidebook says about defining successful ministry.

For about three years here, we had the same two gentlemen ministering to my wife and me. They were very comfortable with each other and were life-long best friends. The one thing they never did that was the best thing they could have done (does that make sense?). They never overtly tried to "convert" us. That would have chased us away quite quickly. We were looking for fellowship and worship; not to find what we had already found.

One of the great old Billy Graham crusade hymns is  titled "Just as I am." It was critical, especially in the early years that our ministers accept us "just as we are." That may go against some church teachings, but they did it anyway, as did our bishop. We reciprocated and as a result built a good relationship.

One of our ministers is now dying of cancer and it breaks my heart. He can't come over any more. We really miss him. Our other minister is a rancher and what I called growing up in a rural Mennonite area a "water witch." He dowses and earns a nice income telling ranchers and farmers where to dig their wells. I grew up with that, so I was comfortable with it. He also pounded rebar stakes into our property to stop the currents from underground water flows that are, in his understanding unhealthy. We must have twenty stakes on our house property! Well . . . we do have pretty good health!

Ministry is hard. I appreciate our friends' hard work at trying to be for us what we needed . . . and for all the rebar in our front, side, and back yard!

You are talking about the 1% that are doing the ministering. I’m talking about solving the problem of the 99% that are not.

Forget “discernment”, they aren’t even going

Edited December 7, 2021 by Fether

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, rongo said:

Our home teacher is a high-functioning man with some form of mental retardation (that is too harsh, but there are profound cognitive issues). He has a heart of gold and a huge testimony, and he decides on his own whom he wants to home teach (leaders have talked to him and tried to dissuade him --- especially when he visits people who already have home teachers --- but he is zeroed in on the families he wants to visit). He served a proselyting mission, but would be assigned a service mission today. He reminds us a lot of Lenny from Of Mice and Men. 

Your head would explode at this, but he not only makes monthly appointments, they are very rough "brainstorms" as far as times. He is liable to come anywhere within an hour and a half before the set appointment time.  He's such a sweetheart, we don't have the heart to try to get out of it. We feel bad for his companion --- the other active priest in the ward besides our son whose dad isn't a member.

Since I'm now in the EQP, we made them our official home teachers. 

Yes, that would kill me. 

It would be the worst part of my month.   Not because of the man or him being over (and if my family ended up in his crosshairs I would endure it and spend a lot of time in prayer trying to be grateful), but just because I hate having people over under any circumstances, and having people over for an extended period of time, without knowing exactly when they are going to show up or leave, is one of my worst nightmares.  

[rongo]

6 minutes ago, Fether said:

You are talking about the 1% that are doing the ministering. I’m talking about solving the problem of the 99% that are not.

Forget “discernment”, they aren’t even going

With the principle of agency, and the undeniable deregulation of reporting in ministering, I don't think "solving" the problem of the 99% who aren't doing it is possible. Especially since the Church scrupulously avoids anything that approaches causing guilt or depression/anxiety (or that people claim causes it in them). 

It is what it is, and I think the Brethren knew this would happen when the change was made. 

What else can or should the Church do that it isn't already doing (talks, etc.) --- short of reverting back to reporting or maybe making reported faithfulness a worthiness requirement?

[Fether]

9 minutes ago, rongo said:

With the principle of agency, and the undeniable deregulation of reporting in ministering, I don't think "solving" the problem of the 99% who aren't doing it is possible. Especially since the Church scrupulously avoids anything that approaches causing guilt or depression/anxiety (or that people claim causes it in them). 

It is what it is, and I think the Brethren knew this would happen when the change was made. 

What else can or should the Church do that it isn't already doing (talks, etc.) --- short of reverting back to reporting or maybe making reported faithfulness a worthiness requirement?

At a local level, presidents can make ministering easier by giving people assignments that are easier to approach. You won’t solve the problem, but it will help people who would t be doing it get into the habit

[Hamba Tuhan]

In our stake, every single bit of training on this topic has been to carefully make ministering assignments after first having considered the needs of both companions and the families/individuals they will be assigned to, and after having sought inspiration. EQ presidencies and RS presidencies coordinate in this work. Are you suggesting that none of this is happening in your ward?

Edited December 7, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, Fether said:

At a local level, presidents can make ministering easier by giving people assignments that are easier to approach. You won’t solve the problem, but it will help people who would t be doing it get into the habit

I know I don't have much credence any longer since I'm no longer active. But I believe it would be better to have kept the once a month HT/VT'g. At least we all know what is expected and in trying to live up to that standard a lot more was done, IMO. I might be a loner in this, but I enjoyed home teachers and visiting teachers, and I'm an introvert. And because of that I need more people in my life, even if those people may not want to be there. But for the most part, most of my home teachers and visiting teachers were genuine in their visits. It's one of the things I miss the most about being active. But had to stop being on the list to being ministered to because the ministers were spending money they didn't have on drop off gifts. I told them I'd love a visit or call the most. But it never happened. Maybe I didn't give it time, or maybe I'm a doubt germ or inactive people are hard to feel comfortable around. I can't put my finger on it, or I'm the 99% that isn't "visited". 

[Danzo]

7 hours ago, Fether said:

But on a macro level, we hear the concern that only 1% of the church is doing ministering.

Where do you hear that?

It certainly isn't the case where I live.

[Raingirl]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I know I don't have much credence any longer since I'm no longer active. But I believe it would be better to have kept the once a month HT/VT'g. At least we all know what is expected and in trying to live up to that standard a lot more was done, IMO. I might be a loner in this, but I enjoyed home teachers and visiting teachers, and I'm an introvert. And because of that I need more people in my life, even if those people may not want to be there. But for the most part, most of my home teachers and visiting teachers were genuine in their visits. It's one of the things I miss the most about being active. But had to stop being on the list to being ministered to because the ministers were spending money they didn't have on drop off gifts. I told them I'd love a visit or call the most. But it never happened. Maybe I didn't give it time, or maybe I'm a doubt germ or inactive people are hard to feel comfortable around. I can't put my finger on it, or I'm the 99% that isn't "visited". 

I doubt very much that you did anything to drive people away. My experience since joining the church is that it’s a very odd competitive bragging right to be too busy to bother with visiting/home teaching/ministering. It’s some warped badge of honor.  
I went out on my own first assignment before I’d ever experienced a visit myself.  My assigned companion couldn’t be bothered, citing the trusty old “I’m too busy” excuse. She was my roommate at the time, was unemployed, and took exactly one class a week. I would come home from work, rushing to pick her up so we could go visit, but she’d be right where she was when I left for work twelve hours earlier- in bed. 
The ward I was in most recently got dissolved this summer. I seem to now be even more invisible than before. 

[Kenngo1969]

With due respect, while your (and others') mileage may vary, I believe that, at least potentially, such an idea smacks of the attitude, "Sure, I'll do it ... as long as it is [comfortable], [convenient], [doesn't take me out of my comfort zone]," and so on, ad infinitum, and I think that, largely, such an attitude misses the whole point of ministering.  Heck, it might miss the whole point of church, writ large. 

While an appropriate rejoinder would be that I need to take my own advice, I think setting up ministering so that I would minister to those like me would, in many ways, rob both me and those to whom I minister of opportunities to grow, to expand our horizons, to become more Christlike, and so on. 

[Kenngo1969]

56 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

... I seem to now be even more invisible than before. 

I'm sorry to hear that.  If, given the fact that our interaction is limited to "cyber"-interaction, it's any comfort to you, I see you.  

Warm Regards & Best Wishes,

-Ken

Edited December 8, 2021 by Kenngo1969

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

I doubt very much that you did anything to drive people away. My experience since joining the church is that it’s a very odd competitive bragging right to be too busy to bother with visiting/home teaching/ministering. It’s some warped badge of honor.  
I went out on my own first assignment before I’d ever experienced a visit myself.  My assigned companion couldn’t be bothered, citing the trusty old “I’m too busy” excuse. She was my roommate at the time, was unemployed, and took exactly one class a week. I would come home from work, rushing to pick her up so we could go visit, but she’d be right where she was when I left for work twelve hours earlier- in bed. 
The ward I was in most recently got dissolved this summer. I seem to now be even more invisible than before. 

Hugs, hope the situation has a good ending, and that you get seen, heard, and loved.

[Peacefully]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

In our stake, every single bit of training on this topic has been to carefully make ministering assignments after first having considered the needs of both companions and the families/individuals they will be assigned to, and after having sought inspiration. EQ presidencies and RS presidencies coordinate in this work. Are you suggesting that none of this is happening in your ward?

I was the RS President when ministering started and we had many coordinated meetings with the EQ Presidency. We went through the lists of brothers and sisters and made assignments of couples together and then RS made assignments of sisters. We prayerfully considered circumstances as we made assignments. We also had a fifth Sunday mtg where EQ Pres and I explained the new program. Once we had the assignments approved by the Bishop, the EQ Pres and I or our counselors met with couples to make assignments. Then sisters met with sisters for their assignments. It was a very long process and we were winging some of it because it was so new. The EQ Pres treated me as an equal in every way and it was one of the best experiences I had in leadership. When we started following up with people it seemed like it was kind of a learning curve and people needed time to get into the ministering mindset. I moved a few months after we got it set up so not sure where it went from there, but it was quite the experience. 

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Hugs, hope the situation has a good ending, and that you get seen, heard, and loved.

Thank you for this.  I have no expectation of things changing, but maybe life will surprise me in a good way for once. 

[Raingirl]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I'm sorry to hear that.  If, given the fact that our interaction is limited to "cyber"-interaction, it's any comfort to you, I see you.  

Warm Regards & Best Wishes,

-Ken

Thank you for your kind words. 
 

I’m used to being invisible because I’m so short, 😂but in the church it’s a whole different reason. 

[Kenngo1969]

7 hours ago, Raingirl said:

Thank you for your kind words. 
 

I’m used to being invisible because I’m so short, 😂but in the church it’s a whole different reason. 

I'm not, not, not, repeat not (clear enough? ) comparing notes with you, but ... single guy? ... never married? ... no children? ... middle-aged? ...  Yeah, I don't know that the Church of Jesus Christ, or my ward, et cetera, knows what to do with me, either.  Whatever problems there are, though, still, the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is true.

[Teancum]

23 hours ago, Fether said:

Assign like minded people to minister to each other.

Young married couples minister to young married couples. Young families minister to young families. Established families to established families. Empty nesters to empty nesters. Old people to old people.

I’m a young family and my companion is younger than me. We minister to three old dudes. We can talk to them and get to know them, but it is like pulling teeth.

The purpose of ministering is to make sure everyone is doing well and to develop relationships on the ward. This is far easier and far more affective when the people can actually relate. 
 

Why is this not a standard? I understand some leaders may feel inspired to mix it up a bit, but the vast majority of members don’t need a miracle ministering member, they just need someone in the ward they can call friend. That doesn’t happen between a 48 year old guy that likes hunting and a 26 year old guy that likes video games and architecture.

Age old problem. Home Teaching was the same.

[Teancum]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

There is an essay called Why the Church is True As the Gospel that addresses the benefits of interacting with those we typically would never choose or have opportunity to interact with. Several well written pages you summarize almost perfectly here, imo. I would simply add “and the capacity to relate to and understand” after “minister to” though your last sentence implies that quite well….I just want it emphasized a bit more. 

IT is a great essay by Eugene Englund. He point out a great strength of the church and is one of the things I do miss.  And we never get a visit from our ministering people.  I would actually be fine with them stopping by.

[Chum]

22 hours ago, ksfisher said:

When I'm saying proximity I'm thinking about 3 or 4 houses away.  Someone who you'd naturally reach out to if you need help or who you see when you go outside.

Maybe once did I live within walking distance of another member. Generally they're miles away. I've had HT routes where the closest stop was a 45 min trip.  I figure most of the planet is like that.