Eric Moutsos

[grapevine]

He has a following.  Refused to do security in gay pride parade and terminated.  Many people don’t believe I’m that stuff to but should you trade shifts or do job then?  For anti vaxxer  follow  him.  Says in blog and Facebook posts that the prophet does not have stewardship 9ver the family and we don’t sustain the individual.

 

of course we are not to be commanded in all things and family rules church does not dictate them down to the letter.  But why do we watch General Conference and go to Stake Conference, read what they say in church news and releases?  Does the Lotd want us to trifle with there words?   Does the lord tell the prophet one thing then tell individuals it does not apply to them.

 

of course no one follows the prophet perfectly and you don’t lose your recommend for not doing things 100 percent,  the issue here is not perfection on food storage, sabbath observance, or a myriad of other things,  but questioning the prophet and stewardship.  You won’t go to Hell or lose recommend if you don’t get vaccine,  but we’re is his stewardship to direct people himself, and question the prophet.

 

is it ok to date before your 16, watch r rated movies, because that is family stewardship?  Prophet won’t lead us astray.  Like Bl Gritz and others what will happen when lines are down who will we get revelation from?  New world order people.    Boyd I. Packer oct 92, M Russell Ballard, 99 and 2017, and Quention L Cook 2016 oct warmed about things like that.  Missing mark listening to people not called.  We will have access to prophets words even when limes are down like they did in past.  Just take longer to get revelation.

 

prophecing of things that probably won’t happen.  Issue isn’t vaccine or masks as much as him questioning the prophet.  I don’t sustain the man.  He is who God called to lead us.  Trust Jesus when he called the prophet.  Personal revelation will not tell you prophet is wrong.  People following him to justify disobedience and not prophet is were I take issue with him.  Listen to prophet we will be fine.

[Calm]

On 11/14/2021 at 7:38 AM, grapevine said:

Refused to do security in gay pride parade and terminated.

That is incorrect, he volunteered to do security for the parade instead of performing in the motorcycle squad as, iirc, the first was to protect which was his job, but the second celebrated gay lifestyles which wasn’t. His superior disagreed as he had volunteered to be on the squad, to receive the training and he didn’t have the right to pick and choose what events he wanted to be a part of.  His superior would not let him to the trade he had arranged, he was suspended first iirc and then terminated. 

I think when his boss vetoed the trade Moustas said he would perform, but his boss said he didn’t want someone with that mindset working on the police force, it wasn’t acceptable. (Added:  Couldn’t find that or the article I had read about the Kiss incident to confirm those memories though I read Moutsos himself making a ‘pat on the back’ claim and it is possible my memory switched that into a member of the LGBT community saying it though I think I would be more skeptical, so don’t assume either is definitely true, please).

It was interesting the first time I looked up that incident as Google took me to the Temple Square Kiss incident. He had been one of two officers who arrived after church security had take the couple into custody. He uncuffed the two and whatever he did, the local gay community applauded his respectful approach (iirc, couldn’t confirm). That time he was the hero of the day for them. Probably one reason he was surprised when he was terminated. 
 

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2455935&itype=CMSID

Edited November 18, 2021 by Calm

[Calm]

Quote

In June, Moutsos was assigned with several other motorcycle officers to ride at the front of the annual Utah Pride Parade in Salt Lake City. They were to perform what he described as celebratory circles. He told his superiors that his religious views made him uncomfortable doing something that suggested he supported the cause, which he does not.

In a six-page public statement released this week, he says his superiors refused his request to swap roles and work a different part of the event. “It is unquestionably my duty as a police officer to protect everyone’s right to hold a parade or other event, but is it also my duty to celebrate everyone’s parade?” he wrote.

Mostsos told The Times: “I asked my supervisor, ‘What if an African American officer didn’t want to ride in front of a KKK parade?’ And he said he’d have to do it. That’s when I knew in my heart it was wrong.”

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-utah-officer-gay-pride-20150226-story.html

Quote

Chief Burbanks also told reporters: “How can I then send that officer out to a family fight that involves a gay couple or a lesbian walking down the street?”

Moutsos counters that he has worked police security at previous gay and lesbian events.

He says he also made the local news in 2009 in his handling of an incident in which two gay men were detained and handcuffed by securityafter they were found kissing on Mormon church property at Temple Square in downtown Salt Lake City.

“I was the officer who responded on the scene and the first thing I did was take off those handcuffs. One was intoxicated and so I was within my rights to arrest him,” he recalled. “But I talked with them for 20 minutes. We shook hands. They thanked me for my handling of the matter. I felt for them.”

 

 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Calm

[ttribe]

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

That is incorrect, he volunteered to do security for the parade instead of performing in the motorcycle squad as, iirc, the first was to protect which was his job, but the second celebrated gay lifestyles which wasn’t. His superior disagreed as he had volunteered to be on the squad, to receive the training and he didn’t have the right to pick and choose what events he wanted to be a part of.  His superior would not let him to the trade he had arranged, he was suspended first iirc and then terminated. 

I think when his boss vetoed the trade Moustas said he would perform, but his boss said he didn’t want someone with that mindset working on the police force, it wasn’t acceptable.

It was interesting the first time I looked up that incident as Google took me to the Temple Square Kiss incident. He had been one of two officers who arrived after church security had take the couple into custody. He uncuffed the two and whatever he did, the local gay community applauded his respectful approach. That time he was the hero of the day for them. Probably one reason he was surprised when he was terminated. 
 

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=2455935&itype=CMSID

All this is consistent with my recollection. We had a long-running thread about the episode with Burbank on this board at the time. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, grapevine said:

For anti vaxxer  follow  him.  Says in blog and Facebook posts that the prophet does not have stewardship 9ver the family and we don’t sustain the individual.

 

Do you have a link or documentation for this? I’d like to read it for myself rather than rely on hearsay. 

[Calm]

Anti vaccine:

https://kjzz.com/news/local/anti-vaccine-utah-group-meets-to-burn-giant-syringe-end-medical-tyranny

[Calm]

Haven’t seen anything in his FB yet like that though 

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10158492918609352&id=755264351

not really interested in reading it 

[Calm]

Here is something that looks relevant, Scott, and now off to something else:

https://www.ericmoutsos.com/who-do-we-have-faith-in/

[Hamba Tuhan]

Eric Moutsos is a false prophet. As I noted in a post last week, I have two friends in America who follow him, as does the wife of my nephew. They are all filled with rage (one has threated to burn the governor's mansion to the ground) and on the brink of apostasy.

My nephew's wife earlier this year posted on Facebook the contents of a letter that she had sent to the First Presidency calling them to repentance on their support of vaccines. She recently spent several weeks in ICU for 'pneumonia', and though she survived and is home now, she's dependent on bottled oxygen, and the damage to her lungs from Covid is so great that she may never be able to function without it again. I've been blocked from her Facebook page, but my sister yesterday confirmed that she is back to reposting Moutsos's material (i.e., Covid is a fraud, government is bad, the prophets have been deceived).

One of my two Moutsos-following friends lost both her brother and her father to Covid in the same week earlier this year. Her response (besides threatening to torch the governor's residence)? A post on Facebook demanding that no one judge her or her family.

Over the weekend, the other disciple of Moutsos that I know posted how sad she was that the prophets were requiring vaccination to attend events on temple square. I replied with a supportive comment. Her response made it clear that she is on her way out of the Church.

As I noted in my previous post, Moutsos currently has a meme on his Facebook page that visually compares those who comply with workplace vaccine requirements to the Roman soldiers who crucified the Saviour. His post about Christmas events at Temple Square has, so far, attracted over 1,100 comments. A representative sampling of the most liked ones:

• 'Until I hear taking this shot is a “commandment”[,] I will no longer be loosing [sic] sleep over my conviction to abstain from the “arm of flesh” an[d] allow poison to be injected into my body. I have prayed to “hear him” and the answer is “no”[.] If the doors of the temple or the church are closed to me[,] the sin will be on the leadership'.
• 'I'm trying to talk my daughter OUT of a mission over all this. I would have been thrilled for her to go, but not so much after the past 2 years'.
• 'Cut your ties with this institution. They may hold temple square but they do not hold the square on truth or the gospel'.
• 'This is deeply troubling. It makes me wonder if I’m a “tare.” I guess I’ll own it if that’s the case. I’m not going to lose my faith[,] but I’m also not taking the poison. If it comes to it, I’ll worship and study the gospel on my own'.
• 'Preach it[,] brother[,] preach it[.] virtue signaling and letting the government's [k]now they're falling in step[.] prove me otherwise'.
• 'How can we get mad and fight back towards the governments and business doing this and then allowing the church to do the same thing[?] Allowing them so much grace when they are part of this mess. I am a faithful member and not sure what to do at this point'.
• 'I am sad and angry! They are playing politics! The church should still speak out and stands for truth!'
• 'Really regret getting married here, repenting of it now'.
• 'Hard pass for me but enjoy visiting beautifully lit and consciously voluntary prison camp compliantly crawling with blood clots and ADE, and sieg heil to your fellow comrades while you're there'.

 

Edited November 15, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Eric Moutsos is a false prophet. As I noted in a post last week, I have two friends in America who follow him, as does the wife of my nephew. They are all filled with rage (one has threated to burn the governor's mansion to the ground) and on the brink of apostasy.

My nephew's wife earlier this year posted on Facebook the contents of a letter that she had sent to the First Presidency calling them to repentance on their support of vaccines. She recently spent several weeks in ICU for 'pneumonia', and though she survived and is home now, she's dependent on bottled oxygen, and the damage to her lungs from Covid is so great that she may never be able to function without it again. I've been blocked from her Facebook page, but my sister yesterday confirmed that she is back to reposting Moutsos's material (i.e., Covid is a fraud).

One of my two Moutsos-following friends lost both her brother and her father to Covid in the same week earlier this year. Her response (besides threatening to torch the governor's residence)? A post on Facebook demanding that no one judge her or her family.

Over the weekend, the other disciple of Moutsos that I know posted how sad she was that the prophets were requiring vaccination to attend events on temple square. I replied with a supportive comment. Her response made it clear that she is on her way out of the Church.

As I noted in my previous post, Moutsos currently has a meme on his Facebook page that visually compares those who comply with workplace vaccine requirements to the Roman soldiers who crucified the Saviour. His post about Christmas events at Temple Square has, so far, attracted over 1,100 comments. A representative sampling of the most liked ones:

• 'Until I hear taking this shot is a “commandment”[,] I will no longer be loosing [sic] sleep over my conviction to abstain from the “arm of flesh” an[d] allow poison to be injected into my body. I have prayed to “hear him” and the answer is “no”[.] If the doors of the temple or the church are closed to me[,] the sin will be on the leadership'.
• 'I'm trying to talk my daughter OUT of a mission over all this. I would have been thrilled for her to go, but not so much after the past 2 years'.
• 'Cut your ties with this institution. They may hold temple square but they do not hold the square on truth or the gospel'.
• 'This is deeply troubling. It makes me wonder if I’m a “tare.” I guess I’ll own it if that’s the case. I’m not going to lose my faith[,] but I’m also not taking the poison. If it comes to it, I’ll worship and study the gospel on my own'.
• 'Preach it[,] brother[,] preach it[.] virtue signaling and letting the government's [k]now they're falling in step[.] prove me otherwise'.
• 'How can we get mad and fight back towards the governments and business doing this and then allowing the church to do the same thing[?] Allowing them so much grace when they are part of this mess. I am a faithful member and not sure what to do at this point'.
• 'I am sad and angry! They are playing politics! The church should still speak out and stands for truth!'
• 'Really regret getting married here, repenting of it now'.
• 'Hard pass for me but enjoy visiting beautifully lit and consciously voluntary prison camp compliantly crawling with blood clots and ADE, and sieg heil to your fellow comrades while you're there'.

 

Last summer I noticed an ad that he was coming to a park in my hometown not far from where I live, for a Freedom Light Festival. I talked my husband into going and it was too hard to stay and we got up to leave and I yelled "boo" very timidly, no one heard but it made me feel better, lol.

[PacMan]

Eric Moutsos is a dangerous man.  He doesn't understand the doctrine of the church, he's arrogant, and he's not very smart.  That's not a good combo.  He's an alarmist and conspiracy theorist.

When you begin criticizing statements of the First Presidency as "NOT a spiritual letter at all.  Not even close," that's called apostasy.  If Moutsos stays on the same course, he will be out of the church in the next 5 years.

When someone mixes religion with politics, that's a red flag.  When they mix religion with politics to sell "freedom" supplements, that someone is a joke.

[Scott Lloyd]

Moutsos was spot-on in standing up to Burbank, but I can’t agree with his statements about the Church leadership. I’m very disappointed in him. 

[MustardSeed]

Charismatic leaders always raise the hairs on my neck. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 hours ago, PacMan said:

If Moutsos stays on the same course, he will be out of the church in the next 5 years.

Agreed. I suspect that, like Dehlin and others, he will stay in as long as he can in order to capitalise on the 'credibility' of continued membership.

And in the meantime, many of his disciples will precede him to the exit as he carefully nourishes their apostasy -- including, as I mentioned above, some who are now dead or debilitated because they believed his words.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

Update: seven hours ago, Moutsos reposted an image from something called the COVID Blog claiming that Canadian singer Céline Dion is now paralysed and in extreme pain as a result of receiving a Covid vaccine. His personal comment: 'This is just the beginning folks... #wakeup'.

Oh, and be sure to follow him on Instagram. And buy his overpriced 'freedom' vitamins ...

[smac97]

12 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Update: seven hours ago, Moutsos reposted an image from something called the COVID Blog claiming that Canadian singer Céline Dion is now paralysed and in extreme pain as a result of receiving a Covid vaccine. His personal comment: 'This is just the beginning folks... #wakeup'.

Oh, and be sure to follow him on Instagram. And buy his overpriced 'freedom' vitamins ...

I wonder how Moutsos would respond to these data:

Quote

HOW MUCH GOOD DO THE VACCINES DO?

I have always had a lot of faith in the anti-covid vaccines {}. At the same time, I think pretty much everyone has been disappointed in the limitations on the vaccines’ performance, particularly the relatively short duration of whatever protection they confer and their inability to stop or substantially prevent the spread of covid.

The best data I know of on the actual effectiveness of vaccination come from Kevin Roche’s Healthy Skeptic. These charts, based on numbers from the Minnesota Department of Health, provide a good window into important aspects of the vaccines’ performance. They compare cumulative hospital admission and death rates in vaccinated and unvaccinated Minnesotans:

Kevin comments on issues with the data here. On first glance, it may appear that there is hardly any difference between vaccinated and unvaccinated populations when it comes to either hospitalization or mortality rates. But that is due to the large number of cases among younger people, who have extremely low rates of both hospitalization and death. If you look at people ages 50 and up, and especially among the elderly, vaccination appears to provide very substantial, if certainly imperfect, protection against those outcomes. Kevin writes:

[H]ere is the headline interpretation. While the cumulative case rates of hospitalization and deaths don’t look very different, in older age groups the protective effect of vaccination is very clear and strong. The cumulative rates are unduly influenced by the very large number of cases and low number of hosps and deaths in younger age groups.

For age groups 50 and over, you are at least three times less likely to die if you get infected and you are vaxed than if you get infected and aren’t vaxed. While the hospitalization difference is not quite as great, it is still substantial.

It would be nice if we had governments at both the national and state level that would help to promote a rational understanding of the data, rather than behaving in a hysterical and deceptive manner.

I have very much disliked the politicization and governmental overreach and "never let a crisis go to waste"-esque power grab efforts associated with the vaccine.  I also dislike hysterical and overwrought and borne-of-ignorance antipathy towards the vaccine.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited November 16, 2021 by smac97

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, smac97 said:

I wonder how Moutsos would respond to these data:

I don't think Moutsos is interested in such things. 1) He reposts 'information' from Joseph Mercola, probably the single largest public figure in America's antivaccine movement. 2) Moutsos is more interested in growing his cult of personality than in data, from what I can tell. On 12 November, he posted a simple message: 'Do no comply!' I'm struggling to find that message in scripture or in the words of the living prophets, but so far it has attracted 125 comments, 194 shares, and more than 1,400 likes, including one from my nephew's wife, who after a 3-week stint in ICU with Covid, is now hobbling around their home tethered to an oxygen bottle like an elderly woman despite the fact that she's only in her 30s, her 'sovereign', unvaccinated lungs so filled with scarring that she may never return to her normal health.

Moutsos doesn't care. He created a post calculated to press a political/cultural button in people like her, and it worked. He got her approval on Facebook. And she's a faithful disciple. She attends (well, attended) his speaking events and reposts his material with greater passion than I've ever seen her post Church-associated material.

Quote

I have very much disliked the politicization and governmental overreach and "never let a crisis go to waste"-esque power grab efforts associated with the vaccine.

I worry sometimes that many American Saints have grown so accustomed to false prophets of the 'progressive' variety carefully leading Church members into apostasy that they might not immediately recognise the exact same phenomenon when it has a more 'alt-right' flavour. In their own ways, Moutsos and his ilk are very much not letting this crisis go to waste.

[The Nehor]

3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I don't think Moutsos is interested in such things. 1) He reposts 'information' from Joseph Mercola, probably the single largest public figure in America's antivaccine movement. 2) Moutsos is more interested in growing his cult of personality than in data, from what I can tell. On 12 November, he posted a simple message: 'Do no comply!' I'm struggling to find that message in scripture or in the words of the living prophets, but so far it has attracted 125 comments, 194 shares, and more than 1,400 likes, including one from my nephew's wife, who after a 3-week stint in ICU with Covid, is now hobbling around their home tethered to an oxygen bottle like an elderly woman despite the fact that she's only in her 30s, her 'sovereign', unvaccinated lungs so filled with scarring that she may never return to her normal health.

Moutsos doesn't care. He created a post calculated to press a political/cultural button in people like her, and it worked. He got her approval on Facebook. And she's a faithful disciple. She attends (well, attended) his speaking events and reposts his material with greater passion than I've ever seen her post Church-associated material.

I worry sometimes that many American Saints have grown so accustomed to false prophets of the 'progressive' variety carefully leading Church members into apostasy that they might not immediately recognise the exact same phenomenon when it has a more 'alt-right' flavour. In their own ways, Moutsos and his ilk are very much not letting this crisis go to waste.

The “do not comply” slogan is believed to have been borrowed from the ridiculous sovereign citizen movement.

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

In their own ways, Moutsos and his ilk are very much not letting this crisis go to waste.

These crises are just grist for the mill for all like-minded people. 

[Hamba Tuhan]

Just now, Stargazer said:

These crises are just grist for the mill for all like-minded people. 

Exactly. And we need to be very cautious that our personal affinities (Left, Right, or whatever) don't blind us to the wolves who might be using words that tickle our own itching ears.

I'm not sure how well I do at this, to be honest, but my strategy is to try to keep my ears attuned to the authorised prophets.

Some weeks ago, a man who used to live in our ward asked me why I wasn't concerned about <insert something about a global communist power grab/New World Order here>, and my response was that, out of the infinite number of things that I could focus my concern on, I have chosen to focus my concern on the clear, repeated messages of the prophets.

[Danzo]

One of things I have noticed in the scriptures is that a prophet will usually tell us something that we don't want to here.  God wants to correct us through the prophets, not just use them to pat us on the back.  That is why I try to pay especial attention when a church leader tells me something I don't want to hear.

I was recently told by someone that accused me of getting the vaccine only because the prophet said so (unfortunaly not true, I got it for my own selfish reasons before the press release).  In a sense, I wish it were true.

There is a person who is a member of the church  that works in my office who was very Vaccine hesitant.  Everyone in the office was vaccinated execpt her.  Just yesterday she got her second dose of the vaccine.  She said that even though she wasn't sure about the vaccine, she couldn't ignore the counsel of the Prophet. I really admire her faith. It is really easy to follow a prohpet who tells you want you want to hear and to do the things you want to do. 

The faith to follow god by listening to the prophet is going to be a much bigger blessing to her than whatever benefit the vaccine provides. 

[Calm]

I got Mom a $2500 settlement as part of a class action suit for fraud against Mercola for an oversized and very overpriced light. I hate those who take advantage of the desperate. Thankfully Mom could afford it. Those who can’t….

Edited November 18, 2021 by Calm

[mfbukowski]

On 11/14/2021 at 9:22 AM, ttribe said:

Utah thing.

[SeekingUnderstanding]

On 11/15/2021 at 4:26 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

Moutsos was spot-on in standing up to Burbank, but I can’t agree with his statements about the Church leadership. I’m very disappointed in him. 

Or perhaps Burbank, being Moutsos boss was privy to parts of his personality and conduct that were not available to the general public. In hindsight firing the guy seems like a really good decision.