Eric Moutsos

[Scott Lloyd]

8 hours ago, SeekingUnderstanding said:

Or perhaps Burbank, being Moutsos boss was privy to parts of his personality and conduct that were not available to the general public. In hindsight firing the guy seems like a really good decision. 

This is pure fantasy. The current events are totally unrelated in time and content to the episode involving SLPD. 

[teddyaware]

On 11/16/2021 at 5:01 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

Exactly. And we need to be very cautious that our personal affinities (Left, Right, or whatever) don't blind us to the wolves who might be using words that tickle our own itching ears.

I'm not sure how well I do at this, to be honest, but my strategy is to try to keep my ears attuned to the authorised prophets.

Some weeks ago, a man who used to live in our ward asked me why I wasn't concerned about <insert something about a global communist power grab/New World Order here>, and my response was that, out of the infinite number of things that I could focus my concern on, I have chosen to focus my concern on the clear, repeated messages of the prophets.

I guess this excludes the grave warnings pronounced  by the prophet Moroni, and oft pointed to by Ezra Taft Benson, found in Ether chapter 8?

“I testify that wickedness is rapidly expanding in every segment of our society. (See D&C 1:14–16; D&C 84:49–53.) It is more highly organized, more cleverly disguised, and more powerfully promoted than ever before. Secret combinations lusting for power, gain, and glory are flourishing. A secret combination that seeks to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. (See Ether 8:18–25.)” “I Testify” Ezra Taft Benson, October 1988.

Do you believe President Benson was incorrect (see above) about the fulfillment (in our present day) of Moroni’s prophecy of a great worldwide secret combination, set up by Satan and his earthly servants, to destroy freedom throughout the world in the last days?

Edited November 19, 2021 by teddyaware

[Hamba Tuhan]

3 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Do you believe President Benson was incorrect (see above) ... ?

No, though I'll admit I'm uncertain whether your understanding of what Pres Benson said and meant is 100 per cent correct.

My point is that, in a world full of commotion, I have made a choice not to twist myself into knots of fear over matters that the living prophets of God are not instructing/guiding me to worry over ... especially when such causes seem to have been purposely designed by people who will benefit financially, politically, or personally from getting me to shift my necessarily finite focus from the prophets to them.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

This is pure fantasy. The current events are totally unrelated in time and content to the episode involving SLPD. 

Except for what they had in common, Moutsos himself. Unless there was a personality transplant, it was the same person making decisions back then as now. 

[teddyaware]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

No, though I'll admit I'm uncertain whether your understanding of what Pres Benson said and meant is 100 per cent correct.

My point is that, in a world full of commotion, I have made a choice not to twist myself into knots of fear over matters that the living prophets of God are not instructing/guiding me to worry over ... especially when such causes seem to have been purposely designed by people who will benefit financially, politically, or personally from getting me to shift my necessarily finite focus from the prophets to them.

And yet the prophet Moroni (and very often Ezra Taft Benson) warned and taught the very opposite…

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

By the way, if you are unable to discern that President Benson was correct in his last General Conference address, when he warned us about the literal fulfillment of Moroni’s dire prophecy in our day, you will likely never see it. It’s so manifestly obvious that this nation is now in the grip of modern-day Gadianton Robbers, who’s goal it is to get power and gain by enslaving the entire world, that only the fearful, ignorant or willfully blind can fail to see it. But I must say that don’t blame those who don’t want to see it, because, after all, it’s something extremely unnerving and unsettling to contemplate.

Why do you think President Russel has warned the Church that the time has come for each member to be fully guided by the Holy Ghost through the Spirit of revelation as we never have before? It’s because it would be extremely dangerous for the leaders of the Church to be bluntly honest about what’s really going on around us. As a consequence of the members of the Church not awakening to a sense of our awful situation, we are now very close to being in the same woeful circumstances the Nephites were in just prior to the Lord’s crucifixion.

The sword of justice is now hanging over the world and it will soon come down upon those who refuse to acknowledge the sun shinning at noonday. The judgements of God are about to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity, and they will first be poured out on the Lord’s house as a sign the prophesied tribulation of the last days has begun. The war in heaven continues in earnest upon the earth, and far too many would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening.

Edited November 19, 2021 by teddyaware

[Scott Lloyd]

On 11/19/2021 at 5:27 AM, Calm said:

Except for what they had in common, Moutsos himself. Unless there was a personality transplant, it was the same person making decisions back then as now. 

I just went back and reviewed the lengthy thread we had in 2015 about the SLPD/Burbank episode. Everything  I said back then in support of Moutsos I stand by today; Burbank went off half-cocked, acted the part of the petty martinet, and publicly defamed and infringed on the rights of one who didn’t deserve it. 

I’ve already expressed disapproval here of what Moutsos has stated recently about the leadership of the Church. But “it was the same person making decisions back then as now” does not recognize the fact that personalities can and frequently do change and evolve over time. Faithful Church members can and all too often do go off the beam later on; we’ve seen it happen many times. Improper behavior in one instance does not render behavior improper that happened years earlier in an unrelated episode. The reverse of that is also true. 

Furthermore, it should go without saying that a person can be wrong in one scenario or set of circumstances and still be in the right in another. That’s pretty much true about any of us  

Added later: Here’s a link to that 2015 thread in case anyone else here wants to review it. The police chief was clearly in the wrong and deserved censure. The actions of Moutsos in an unrelated episode seven years later don’t change that. 
 

 

Edited December 2, 2021 by Scott Lloyd

[Hamba Tuhan]

6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

It’s so manifestly obvious that this nation is now in the grip of modern-day Gadianton Robbers, who’s goal it is to get power and gain by enslaving the entire world, that only the fearful, ignorant or willfully blind can fail to see it ...

Why do you think President Russel has warned the Church that the time has come for each member to be fully guided by the Holy Ghost through the Spirit of revelation as we never have before? It’s because it would be extremely dangerous for the leaders of the Church to be bluntly honest about what’s really going on around us.

So your understanding involves the following:

• The current prophets know really important things.
• It would be dangerous to the prophets to actually tell us those things.
• Nevertheless, you have figured out exactly the things the prophets would be telling us if they safely could.
• If we don't agree with you, then we're blind/sticking our heads in the sand.

Yep, no warning signs at all in any of that ... 

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So your understanding involves the following:

• The current prophets know really important things.
• It would be dangerous to the prophets to actually tell us those things.
• Nevertheless, you have figured out exactly the things the prophets would be telling us if they safely could.
• If we don't agree with you, then we're blind/sticking our heads in the sand.

Yep, no warning signs at all in any of that ... 

deleted

Edited November 19, 2021 by Tacenda

[Hamba Tuhan]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

deleted

Please don't risk the closing of this thread by unnecessarily politicising the discussion. Thanks!

Edited November 19, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

4 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Please don't risk the closing of this thread by unnecessarily politicising the discussion. Thanks!

I won't

[Hamba Tuhan]

On 11/15/2021 at 10:14 AM, Hamba Tuhan said:

One of my two Moutsos-following friends lost both her brother and her father to Covid in the same week earlier this year. Her response (besides threatening to torch the governor's residence)? A post on Facebook demanding that no one judge her or her family.

This thread got me thinking about this friend again, so I just checked her Facebook page. She hadn't been posting for a very long time, and I'd worried about her wellbeing in the obvious way, hoping it was just grief rather than serious illness. But she has posted again just yesterday: long Covid.

One more victim sacrificed on the altar of Moutsos's ego.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I won't

Many thanks!

[SeekingUnderstanding]

3 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

It would be dangerous to the prophets to actually tell us those things.

And further, Teddy Aware has the courage to tell us the things the prophet knows, but is too scared to say. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by SeekingUnderstanding

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, teddyaware said:

And yet the prophet Moroni (and very often Ezra Taft Benson) warned and taught the very opposite…

23 Wherefore, O ye Gentiles, it is wisdom in God that these things should be shown unto you, that thereby ye may repent of your sins, and suffer not that these murderous combinations shall get above you, which are built up to get power and gain—and the work, yea, even the work of destruction come upon you, yea, even the sword of the justice of the Eternal God shall fall upon you, to your overthrow and destruction if ye shall suffer these things to be.
24 Wherefore, the Lord commandeth you, when ye shall see these things come among you that ye shall awake to a sense of your awful situation, because of this secret combination which shall be among you; or wo be unto it, because of the blood of them who have been slain; for they cry from the dust for vengeance upon it, and also upon those who built it up.
25 For it cometh to pass that whoso buildeth it up seeketh to overthrow the freedom of all lands, nations, and countries; and it bringeth to pass the destruction of all people, for it is built up by the devil, who is the father of all lies; even that same liar who beguiled our first parents, yea, even that same liar who hath caused man to commit murder from the beginning; who hath hardened the hearts of men that they have murdered the prophets, and stoned them, and cast them out from the beginning.

By the way, if you are unable to discern that President Benson was correct in his last General Conference address, when he warned us about the literal fulfillment of Moroni’s dire prophecy in our day, you will likely never see it. It’s so manifestly obvious that this nation is now in the grip of modern-day Gadianton Robbers, who’s goal it is to get power and gain by enslaving the entire world, that only the fearful, ignorant or willfully blind can fail to see it. But I must say that don’t blame those who don’t want to see it, because, after all, it’s something extremely unnerving and unsettling to contemplate.

Why do you think President Russel has warned the Church that the time has come for each member to be fully guided by the Holy Ghost through the Spirit of revelation as we never have before? It’s because it would be extremely dangerous for the leaders of the Church to be bluntly honest about what’s really going on around us. As a consequence of the members of the Church not awakening to a sense of our awful situation, we are now very close to being in the same woeful circumstances the Nephites were in just prior to the Lord’s crucifixion.

The sword of justice is now hanging over the world and it will soon come down upon those who refuse to acknowledge the sun shinning at noonday. The judgements of God are about to be poured out upon a world ripening in iniquity, and they will first be poured out on the Lord’s house as a sign the prophesied tribulation of the last days has begun. The war in heaven continues in earnest upon the earth, and far too many would rather stick their heads in the sand and pretend it’s not happening.

It would be dangerous to tell the truth so the apostles just……don’t? That doesn’t seem much like the scriptural prophets to me.

I would argue that the key to spotting the people involved is right in there. Find the unapologetic and habitual liars and shun them.

[Bob Crockett]

On 11/18/2021 at 11:39 PM, teddyaware said:

I guess this excludes the grave warnings pronounced  by the prophet Moroni, and oft pointed to by Ezra Taft Benson, found in Ether chapter 8?

 

On 11/18/2021 at 11:39 PM, teddyaware said:

Do you believe President Benson was incorrect (see above) about the fulfillment (in our present day) of Moroni’s prophecy of a great worldwide secret combination, set up by Satan and his earthly servants, to destroy freedom throughout the world in the last days?

Yep.  Communism fell.  That is what Pres Benson referenced. 

We are now in the hands of a different secret combination.  Right wing thugs who don't believe in personal freedoms who spout religion to justify their grossly immoral acts.  Who brag openly of their disdain for women.  Left wing plutocrats who believe we can't make our own decisions. At least the latter don't claim God as their warrior.

But they kill their young.  Right wing thugs press flag burning amendments and triumph in guns while ignoring legislative solutions to protect the young. Left wing plutocrats engage in race war with their murders of innocents. 

I see a day when these graspers all get the spanking they deserve. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by Bob Crockett

[mfbukowski]

On 11/20/2021 at 8:19 AM, Bob Crockett said:

Communism fell

Not even close.

As a student of one of the leaders, in college, I see textbook communism healthier than ever, but don't want to close the thread

[mfbukowski]

On 11/19/2021 at 4:31 PM, Hamba Tuhan said:

So your understanding involves the following:

• The current prophets know really important things.
• It would be dangerous to the prophets to actually tell us those things.
• Nevertheless, you have figured out exactly the things the prophets would be telling us if they safely could.
• If we don't agree with you, then we're blind/sticking our heads in the sand.

Yep, no warning signs at all in any of that ... 

Error- this quote is from @The Nehor, not @Hamba Tuhan

____________________________<

IF they affirmed what Teddy said, what would be your personal reaction?

No, the danger they fear, I believe, is found in the blinded reactions of members of the church, like some here, who will scoff and abandon their spiritual covenants, as is already happening. 

Theirs is the still small voice of warning for those still willing to hear the truth.

Edited November 28, 2021 by mfbukowski

[Hamba Tuhan]

21 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Error- this quote is from @The Nehor, not @Hamba Tuhan

No, you are definitely quoting me.

Quote

IF they affirmed what Teddy said, what would be your personal reaction?

I would hearken to their words.

Quote

Theirs is the still small voice of warning for those still willing to hear the truth.

I am immediately sceptical whenever anyone tells me that the prophets secretly agree with his or her pet (political) agenda, and if I only had ears to hear, I would recognise it.

That way lies chaos ... and apostasy.

Edited November 29, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan