Sexism in Utah: How Latter-day Saints Fare

[smac97]

Here:

Quote

Sexist comments are prevalent in Utah and normalized in everyday conversations, public communications and social settings, a new study by Utah State University researchers shows.

Susan Madsen, founding director of the Utah Women & Leadership Project and one of the report's authors, said the study was conducted to educate the public on forms of sexist comments, both conscious and unconscious, and to equip women with the tools needed to better combat sexism.

"Specific examples are critical to better understand the many forms that sexist comments can take, whether blatant, subtle, aggressive or unintentional," she said.

"Sexism" is a fairly subjective term.  And it is susceptible to misuse, politicization, and so on.  Still, just because the concept is difficult to define with precision doesn't mean it can't be defined at all.

Also, the study is based on

Quote

an online survey {} administered to a nonprobability sample of Utah women representing diverse settings, backgrounds, and situations (e.g.,  age, marital status, education, race/ethnicity, parenthood status, employment status, faith tradition, and county/region).  A call for participants was announced through the Utah Women & Leadership Project (UWLP) monthly newsletter, social media platforms, and website. UWLP partners, collaborators, and followers also distributed to their circles of influence. Overall, 1,115 respondents started the survey, and 839 Utah women participated enough to provide usable data.

This may lessen the reliability of the results due to self-selection bias:

Quote

In statistics, self-selection bias arises in any situation in which individuals select themselves into a group, causing a biased sample with nonprobability sampling. It is commonly used to describe situations where the characteristics of the people which cause them to select themselves in the group create abnormal or undesirable conditions in the group. It is closely related to the non-response bias, describing when the group of people responding has different responses than the group of people not responding.

Self-selection bias is a major problem in research in sociology, psychology, economics and many other social sciences.^[1] In such fields, a poll suffering from such bias is termed a self-selected listener opinion poll or "SLOP".^[2] 

A "Have you ever experiences sexism?"-style "call for participants" could understandably attract a disproportionate amount of respondents who have experienced it, which could skew the results.

Also, Utah County seems to be substantially overrepresented (44.3% of the respondents, though representing only 20% of the population of the state), where Salt Lake County is more proportionally represented (37.1% of respondents, representing 36% of the population of the state).

Also, "Table 4" from the study breaks down "Comment Major Themes and Sub-Categories" as follows:

  

Note here that "Defensiveness/backlash against feminism" seems to be treated as a per se expression of "sexism."  But in 2013, HuffPo reported that "{o}nly one-fifth of Americans identify as feminists, according to a new HuffPost/YouGov poll."  More:

Quote

According to the survey, just 20 percent of Americans -- including 23 percent of women and 16 percent of men -- consider themselves feminists. Another 8 percent consider themselves anti-feminists, while 63 percent said they are neither.

Broken down by party, 32 percent of Democrats, 19 percent of independents and only 5 percent of Republicans said they are feminists.

But asked if they believe that "men and women should be social, political, and economic equals," 82 percent of the survey respondents said they did, and just 9 percent said they did not. Equal percentages of men and women said they agreed with that statement, along with 87 percent of Democrats, 81 percent of independents and 76 percent of Republicans.

Per this 2015 article:

Quote

Plenty of people say they believe in equal rights for women, but when you ask those same people if they're feminists, most of them will say no.

That's what we found in a new Vox poll, which explores the public's view on feminism, abortion, and the Affordable Care Act.

The poll, conducted by research and communications firm PerryUndem, shows that a strong majority of Americans agree on gender equality. Eighty-five percent, for example, say they believe in "equality for women."

But many fewer want to put the feminist label on their beliefs. Eighteen percent of poll respondents said they consider themselves feminist. Fifty-two percent said they were not feminist, 26 percent were not sure, and 4 percent refused to answer the question.

Per this 2017 survey, "while women largely believe in and support the tenets of feminism — the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities — only one in three (33 percent) would go so far as to identify herself as a feminist."  Why?  Well...

Quote

Of those who said they did not identify as feminist, 45 percent said it was because the movement is “too extreme,” while 38 percent said it’s because feminism supports “many causes,” including reproductive freedom and pro-LGBT rights, which they do not agree with “for personal or religious reasons.”

More than half of the non-feminist women — 55 percent — said that “the stereotypical view of feminists” as “loud, aggressive, complaining, etc.” was not something they wished to be associated with. And 21 percent of this group agreed that while they did, in fact, believe in many of the goals and views of feminism, they found the movement’s methods to be “ineffective or counterproductive.”

Characterizing criticism/rejection/backlash against "feminism" as "sexism" seems problematic given the disparity between A) the substantial precentage of people (82%) who agree that "men and women should be social, political, and economic equals," and B) the the significantly lower number of people - including many women - who are comfortable with labeling themselves as "feminist."  As this article put it: "'Feminism' is in dire need of rebranding, according to the results of an exclusive new Yahoo survey."

Anyway, back to the article:

Quote

According to the online survey of women ages 18-70, sexist remarks were more likely to occur in workplaces, within the home, churches or communities.

Most sexist remarks were expressed by men, 84.6%, but also by women, 14.5%, according to the findings. Most often, the remarks were made by someone with authority or influence over the woman, followed by peers and someone over whom the woman had authority.

Well, we still have room to improve, I think.

Here's where the Church comes in:

Quote

The report, the first of five planned on the subject, indicates that married women hear fewer sexist comments than women who are separated or divorced, single, have a domestic partner or are widowed.

"Latter-day Saint respondents also believe that they hear fewer sexist comments than women in all other faith tradition categories," the report states.

In response to a question whether their opportunities have been limited because of others' biases about gender, women who identified as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "agreed significantly less than those of other faith traditions."

I would hope that Latter-day Saint men are doing better (as in "not as bad") in this area.  I want my wife and daughters to feel respected in society.  

Quote

Madsen said it is crucial to raise awareness of the widespread occurrence and damaging effects of sexist language, comments, beliefs, and behaviors.

"Through this effort, we hope to reduce the frequency of sexism in our homes, neighborhoods, communities, and the state as a whole," she said.

The research brief notes "as sexist comments are pervasive, and appropriate responses elusive, this research study was designed with the intent of collecting and analyzing a wide variety of sexist comments experienced by women across the state of Utah, in addition to the responses women made (or wish they had made) to such comments."

I would be interested to see a corollary study of sexism against men.  

Anyway, thoughts?  I'm particularly interested in hearing from women on this.

Thanks,

-Smac

[webbles]

I found it interesting that Latter-day Saints women who responded seemed to rate the sexism less on average.

For example:

Quote

Younger respondents (18–39-year-olds) agreed significantly more (4.68-4.61) with the statement, “Women are more likely to hear sexist comments in Utah than elsewhere in the US,” than study participants over 60 (3.68- 4.32). The statistical means substantially differed among faith traditions: Latter-day Saints (4.13), no religion (4.81), non-Christian religious (4.89), other Christian (5.29), and other (5.52).

The score is a 7 point scale, 1=strongly disagree, 4=neutral, 7=strongly agree.  According to the study, the Latter-day Saints women are mostly neutral with that statement but all the other faith traditions are much higher.  Why would that happen?  It looks like Latter-day Saint women perceived less sexism in all of the 9 questions that were asked.  They still did perceive some sexism, but not as much as the other faith traditions.

[JustAnAustralian]

Over half of those surveyed have a masters degree or above with 88% having a bachelors or above.

Looking at the 2016 CNN exit polls for whites by sex in Utah, 23% of voters were white women college grads, 22% were white women non-college grads. (others were either males or non-whites). That's roughly 50/50 college/non college. So college grads are definitely over represented in the people that filled in the survey.

I'd like to see a survey cohort that more fairly represents the actual population.

Edited November 3, 2021 by JustAnAustralian

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, JustAnAustralian said:

There are definitely skews within the data.

Over half have a masters degree or above with 88% having a bachelors or above.

Looking at the 2016 CNN exit polls for whites by sex in Utah, 23% of voters were white women college grads, 22% were white women non-college grads. (others were either males or non-whites). That's roughly 50/50 college/non college. So college grads are definitely over represented in the people that filled in the survey.

I am not sure which way the skew would go.

[Ipod Touch]

I'm the object of searing misandry every time I visit Provo.  I can't walk 100 feet without being cat-called or whistled at.  But, I guess I do like to wear racy shoes.

[Calm]

The finding sexism is prevalent doesn’t surprise me. 
 

I would be interested to see how much experience outside of Utah has been had by those responding saying Utah is worse in the US, are they using personal experience as their measure or something else (hopefully not entertainment).

Quote

Younger respondents (18–39-year-olds) agreed significantly more (4.68-4.61) with the statement, “Women are more likely to hear sexist comments in Utah than elsewhere in the US,” 

I haven’t spent enough time in other states in the past 30 years to be able judge what Utah is like now compare to them. I don’t see Calgary, Canada as much different though…at least while I was living there in the 90s and early 00s.

I haven’t experienced sexual harassment in church situations like I have outside the Church, sexism in the Church has a softer hand…disregarding by leaders of requests from women, not seeing the need to share info with them, not seeking input when it makes sense to do so, in the past at BYU there was imbalance in things like the dress code and women expected to accommodate where the men were not imo, there was an expectation of the young women helping male friends out with school stuff without a reciprocating, but that might be different now…that kind of sexism is more of what I have experienced within the Church and seen other women experience.

I don’t have a lot of work experiences to draw from, so my input has limited value. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Calm

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, Ipod Touch said:

I'm the object of searing misandry every time I visit Provo.  I can't walk 100 feet without being cat-called or whistled at.  But, I guess I do like to wear racy shoes.

Yeah, I gave up on wearing a crop top in Provo.

[Tacenda]

38 minutes ago, Calm said:

The finding sexism is prevalent doesn’t surprise me. 
 

I would be interested to see how much experience outside of Utah has been had by those responding saying Utah is worse in the US, are they using personal experience as their measure or something else (hopefully not entertainment).

I haven’t spent enough time in other states in the past 30 years to be able judge what Utah is like now compare to them. I don’t see Calgary, Canada as much different though…at least while I was living there in the 90s and early 00s.

I haven’t experienced sexual harassment in church situations like I have outside the Church, sexism in the Church has a softer hand…disregarding by leaders of requests from women, not seeing the need to share info with them, not seeking input when it makes sense to do so, in the past at BYU there was imbalance in things like the dress code and women expected to accommodate where the men were not imo, there was an expectation of the young women helping male friends out with school stuff without a reciprocating, but that might be different now…that kind of sexism is more of what I have experienced within the Church and seen other women experience.

I don’t have a lot of work experiences to draw from, so my input has limited value. 

This doesn't look good, if true:

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, webbles said:

I found it interesting that Latter-day Saints women who responded seemed to rate the sexism less on average.

For example:

The score is a 7 point scale, 1=strongly disagree, 4=neutral, 7=strongly agree.  According to the study, the Latter-day Saints women are mostly neutral with that statement but all the other faith traditions are much higher.  Why would that happen?  It looks like Latter-day Saint women perceived less sexism in all of the 9 questions that were asked.  They still did perceive some sexism, but not as much as the other faith traditions.

My guess is that we’re so used to being in an inherently sexist environment from church that it isn’t noticed as much in every day life. I frankly never noticed it as much until I went into the workforce where I’m in a position that is equal in every way to the men I work with. Unfortunately that is really the way that I feel. I’m not trying to be controversial. 

[MustardSeed]

18 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

My guess is that we’re so used to being in an inherently sexist environment from church that it isn’t noticed as much in every day life. I frankly never noticed it as much until I went into the workforce where I’m in a position that is equal in every way to the men I work with. Unfortunately that is really the way that I feel. I’m not trying to be controversial. 

Yes.  Find me any polygamist husband or wife who admits to sexism in their lifestyle and then let’s talk.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by MustardSeed

[MustardSeed]

20 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

My guess is that we’re so used to being in an inherently sexist environment from church that it isn’t noticed as much in every day life. I frankly never noticed it as much until I went into the workforce where I’m in a position that is equal in every way to the men I work with. Unfortunately that is really the way that I feel. I’m not trying to be controversial. 

I guess what I’m trying to say is that when you’re IN it, especially when you’re raised in it, it being an unhealthy system, it can be really hard to see it.  
 

I love the Gospel.  The church is sexist.  

[JustAnAustralian]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I am not sure which way the skew would go.

My guess extrapolating Australian impressions to Utah

Higher level of education = high level job

high level job =  likely to be more males (women more likely to be part/flexible time for family reasons = less employment progression)

more males = more males with sexist tendencies (assuming sexist tendencies are equally distributed)

more males with sexist tendencies = the few females that are there are more likely to experience sexism

Table 5 in the article also shows quite a high level of push back to sexism, which I would also link to higher education levels.

 

[pogi]

47 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This doesn't look good, if true:

Do you have a source for this?

Utah (#50) and Idaho (#49) probably have more stay-at-home moms than anywhere else.  I wonder if they are factoring that in as a negative.  When I look at our next-door neighbors,  #1 Nevada, I am kind of shocked.  I somehow doubt that we are behind Nevada in women's health and education.  From a County government perspective anyway, literally all of my higher-ups are women, including the Mayor.  I would be curious how they are weighing these things.  We may be behind them in the workplace with more stay-at-home moms and pay inequality (I'm not sure), but it doesn't seem that women are better off in Nevada than Utah, overall. 

One would guess that happiness and well-being are associated with equality.  One would predict that the higher the equality, the higher the well-being/happiness.  However:

One report shows Utah at #1 in happiness and wellbeing, with Nevada ranked #23.  Kind of shocking to see those two extremes with Utah #1 in well being, and dead last in women's equality.  

https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959

Another places Utah at #2, with Nevada somewhere way down the list.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/happiest-states

A third places Utah at #2, with Nevada at #19

https://www.newsweek.com/usa-states-ranked-happiness-hawaii-1533784

Those were just the first three results I found in a google search.  There seems to be a trend.  I wonder what that says about how they are measuring equality. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by pogi

[smac97]

55 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

This doesn't look good, if true:

I wonder if women in Utah would agree that Utah is the absolutely worst place in the country for "women's equality."

I'm also trying to remember the metrics used for this.  My recollection is that employment/income was a big factor.  That is, states where more women are stay-at-home moms fare worse in the metrics because of that choice.  I'm open to correction on that, tho.

Thanks,

-Smac

[rpn]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

This doesn't look good, if true:

But that statistic comes from things like parents choosing to stay at home to raise children so they aren't working as much as in other states, and going in and out of the workforce for family reasons so they don't move up as much.   That choice is largely why UT has such great educational accomplishments though they spend less on it than almost every other state.   Life is always a tradeoff.   And mom at home by choice is the least sexist thing in the world.  (Though for those who feel stuck there, we can't necessarily say the same thing. )

[Tacenda]

18 minutes ago, rpn said:

But that statistic comes from things like parents choosing to stay at home to raise children so they aren't working as much as in other states, and going in and out of the workforce for family reasons so they don't move up as much.   That choice is largely why UT has such great educational accomplishments though they spend less on it than almost every other state.   Life is always a tradeoff.   And mom at home by choice is the least sexist thing in the world.  (Though for those who feel stuck there, we can't necessarily say the same thing. )

I like this side of it, thanks for the reminder. I understand that women should be able to have careers as men do, but the old fashion side of me wants the moms or dads home with their children. But only if they'll be good parents and not depressed they're stay at home parenting. Then maybe daycare is the better option.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

Do you have a source for this?

Utah (#50) and Idaho (#49) probably have more stay-at-home moms than anywhere else.  I wonder if they are factoring that in as a negative.  When I look at our next-door neighbors,  #1 Nevada, I am kind of shocked.  I somehow doubt that we are behind Nevada in women's health and education.  From a County government perspective anyway, literally all of my higher-ups are women, including the Mayor.  I would be curious how they are weighing these things.  We may be behind them in the workplace with more stay-at-home moms and pay inequality (I'm not sure), but it doesn't seem that women are better off in Nevada than Utah, overall. 

One would guess that happiness and well-being are associated with equality.  One would predict that the higher the equality, the higher the well-being/happiness.  However:

One report shows Utah at #1 in happiness and wellbeing, with Nevada ranked #23.  Kind of shocking to see those two extremes with Utah #1 in well being, and dead last in women's equality.  

https://wallethub.com/edu/happiest-states/6959

Another places Utah at #2, with Nevada somewhere way down the list.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/happiest-states

A third places Utah at #2, with Nevada at #19

https://www.newsweek.com/usa-states-ranked-happiness-hawaii-1533784

Those were just the first three results I found in a google search.  There seems to be a trend.  I wonder what that says about how they are measuring equality. 

This was on the news awhile back:

https://kutv.com/news/local/utah-ranked-last-in-us-gender-equality

[rodheadlee]

I just don't talk anymore in public. I don't want to offend anyone. My work requires minimal speech. I wanted to compliment this woman on her pantsuit but I didn't. 

[Tacenda]

2 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

I just don't talk anymore in public. I don't want to offend anyone. My work requires minimal speech. I wanted to compliment this woman on her pantsuit but I didn't. 

smart

[2BizE]

Also, a similar finding from the US Justice Department found Racism to be large problem in highly LDS populated Davis County. Both racism and sexism are products of Mormonism patriarchy and white preference.  Just look at the general conference talk time given to men vs women and white men vs men of color.

[katherine the great]

48 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

I just don't talk anymore in public. I don't want to offend anyone. My work requires minimal speech. I wanted to compliment this woman on her pantsuit but I didn't. 

It’s probably good practice to not make personal comments in a work environment anyway.  It’s too easy to misconstrue.  I would appreciate a comment like that from a man or woman who is a friend at a social gathering though. 

[Duncan]

FWIW women can now work at the recommend desk at temples

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, smac97 said:

Here:

"Sexism" is a fairly subjective term.  And it is susceptible to misuse, politicization, and so on.  Still, just because the concept is difficult to define with precision doesn't mean it can't be defined at all.

Also, the study is based on

This may lessen the reliability of the results due to self-selection bias:

A "Have you ever experiences sexism?"-style "call for participants" could understandably attract a disproportionate amount of respondents who have experienced it, which could skew the results.

Also, Utah County seems to be substantially overrepresented (44.3% of the respondents, though representing only 20% of the population of the state), where Salt Lake County is more proportionally represented (37.1% of respondents, representing 36% of the population of the state).

Also, "Table 4" from the study breaks down "Comment Major Themes and Sub-Categories" as follows:

  

Note here that "Defensiveness/backlash against feminism" seems to be treated as a per se expression of "sexism."  But in 2013, HuffPo reported that "{o}nly one-fifth of Americans identify as feminists, according to a new HuffPost/YouGov poll."  More:

Per this 2015 article:

Per this 2017 survey, "while women largely believe in and support the tenets of feminism — the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities — only one in three (33 percent) would go so far as to identify herself as a feminist."  Why?  Well...

Characterizing criticism/rejection/backlash against "feminism" as "sexism" seems problematic given the disparity between A) the substantial precentage of people (82%) who agree that "men and women should be social, political, and economic equals," and B) the the significantly lower number of people - including many women - who are comfortable with labeling themselves as "feminist."  As this article put it: "'Feminism' is in dire need of rebranding, according to the results of an exclusive new Yahoo survey."

Anyway, back to the article:

Well, we still have room to improve, I think.

Here's where the Church comes in:

I would hope that Latter-day Saint men are doing better (as in "not as bad") in this area.  I want my wife and daughters to feel respected in society.  

I would be interested to see a corollary study of sexism against men.  

Anyway, thoughts?  I'm particularly interested in hearing from women on this.

Thanks,

-Smac

I also wonder how much of it just goes unrecognized. Part of the problem with the term feminism being stigmatized is that several of the ways that inequity can get baked into the culture goes unnoticed or unnamed. I see themes surrounding the 3rd category, undervaluing female contributions, and sexual harassment/sexualizing women/unwanted advances for my job all the time and I work with mostly Latter-day Saint folks (or people who at least were recently). Sometimes it's just left unstated or assumed as what you're supposed to do (particularly with very gendered roles or homemaking expectations). there's definitely a range in attitudes/behaviors. From the worst man I ever met in terms of misogynistic comments (and some behaviors) to more garden variety sexism. I feel like half my job when tackling couple sexual concerns is dismantling gendered behaviors and expectations. They often recognize the behaviors or problems when I point them out...but they don't name them off the bat most of the time...particularly if they're in the older demographics (ie. 40+)

I'd agree that I hear less stuff married than I did when I was single. In part because there is simply less input from others in my life by people I didn't choose to be there. it's still there. Funny one on gender stereotypes...my husband signed up to make a meal for a family with a new baby. He signed his name on the sign up sheet and assured me when he got home (since he hadn't asked) that he would be doing all the work for it. Cool I say have at it.  But the people coordinating this do not apparently understand the difference between his name and mine, because when they check up, they call me. One frankly assumed that he signed me up and wanted to make sure I was okay with it. I laughed and stated the above and that my husband can do what he wants. I got a good kick out of that one....actually I generally enjoy getting kicks out of people's common gendered assumptions. Like when we had the missionaries over and I stated "as head of the household, I would like for so-and-so to pray)" one of the missionaries looked very concerned by this statement. Or when people ask what my husband does for a living, but not me (even though, once they do ask or I bring it up, they're far more interested in what I do than his job )

There are things that are less funny though. Like several of my friends struggling with their decisions to work outside the home. The narrative when I was growing up was definitely the "just in case" motto. As in "just in case" something happens to your future husband, you should get an education. "Just in case" you don't marry, you should think about what you want to do for a career. It was coupled with messages on the best ways to start a family...which was always sooner than later. So when a friend felt she should wait on kids, it took her a long bit to feel confident in that decision. Or when another friend has been the major bread winner by design, it took a moment to wrap her head around the idea. And it was still a little iffy to mention all of us prefer to work at least part time in our chosen professions "just in case" is more like "just because" and "just gotta."   

Another less funny falls under the sexual objectification end of things. Most of that definitely happens outside of church....but I couldn't tell you if the men oggling are members or not either. I thought this slowed down when I was married (I know it did when I was super pregnant...it was nice). But being unwantedly approached was the only thing that really stopped. Well that and me not really caring about other men and becoming super unaware of them. But my husband has fun pointing out the creepy stares especially. I'm not talking about the men who just notice pretty lady walking by. I mean the men who openly ogle in inappropriate ways. Like while at my brother's reception and a man behind me kept checking out my butt (my husband openly laughed and embarassed the heck out of him....the man's face was priceless). Or the dudes who openly stare out windows while driving. Or the one recently who was staring at me while I was walking with my family and he was walking with his partner.  

I do think it's getting better. When I was a younger teen and got my PB, I was so conflicted by half of my blessing because the terms and such used were ones more often attributed to men in the church. Many of the narratives that fostered this have shifted particularly in the last few years. I assume it will continue to improve and change.

 

With luv,

BD

 

 

[let’s roll]

I’m curious about the “unconscious bias” category.  Were the 323 respondents who reported instances of unconscious bias speculating on the subconscious nature of the reported bias or did the study define certain actions as subconscious bias.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This doesn't look good, if true:

Political empowerment…I wonder if that means percentage of representation by women in the state. 

https://www.usu.edu/uwlp/files/briefs/29-status-of-women-in-utah-politics-2021.pdf

Several years ago I read an article about the much lower rate of women becoming delegates in the local caucuses, the difference in responses to women speaking and making the pitch to be delegates, but things might have changed. I haven’t found an article that deals with that within the time I want to invest in looking. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Calm