Addressing lgbtq+ prior to coming out

[Fether]

I want to preface this with my beliefs. I believe whole heartedly that the Church is all it claims to be. I am a very orthodox member in the doctrine, and I recognize the many failings failings in the orthodox culture. Any response that includes suggestions that conflict with this will likely fall on deaf ears.

Some time around 2017, shortly after I got off my mission, my sister left the church, my brother came out as gay, and my other brother began to socially transition to be a girl. Though our quaint little stereotypical Utah Mormon family was rocked by all this coming all at once, we all quickly and effectively worked through it. Today, despite our difference in belief, we are a very tight knit family. I play video games with my siblings every weekend, we have very positive interactions and we speak about our difference in opinion openly and productively (except, of course,  for politics... politics is a hot topic we often avoid).

My question today is not how to deal with family and friends who come out as gay, there are ample resources for that. My concern is how do we teach our children gospel truths, urge them in that direction, but not teach it in such a way that if they do identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, they feel ostracized and like they can’t share.

I have listened to many podcasts on people sharing their experience growing up gay in the church and a lot of them share how traumatizing it was to be told homosexuality was a terrible sin. They even share how frustrating it is to hear “being gay is ok, doing gay is bad”.

I want to be able to raise my kids in the gospel, but do it in such a way that if they are gay, they don’t feel like they have to leave the church. I feel this is how my siblings and many others were taught. You can believe in God or you can be gay. I want to avoid that.

If I am honest with myself, I fear that if I introduce homosexuality to my kids too young, it may confuse them and even open up the option and then turn my kid gay.

Are there any resources for this? Books, articles, etc.?

Edited May 12, 2021 by Fether

[Garden Girl]

Oh my, fether, this is a difficult one, but not impossible... there is a person who posts here that is a Family Therapist with a focus in this area... her name is Blue Dreams... you may have seen some of her posts... you may want to PM her and ask her for some suggestions on books and other resources...

GG

[Chum]

24 minutes ago, Fether said:

My concern is how do we teach our children gospel truths, urge them in that direction, but not teach it in such a way that if they do identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, they feel ostracized and like they can’t share.

My approach would be to take one truth at a time, considering each in the context of your faith and understanding. If you run into a lack of harmony, set that aside and wait (patiently, it takes time) for a greater understanding that resolves things.

[rongo]

I'm assuming you want to teach your children that active homosexuality is a sin (within the larger context of the plan of salvation, purpose of the whole law of chastity, age appropriate --- i.e., not singling out homosexuality), but that we love and are kind to everyone. I think this is the default setting in most of the homes of the Church (although it may not have been generations ago). I know of few people who are hostile to their gay friends, children, and extended family. To do that, you continue doing what you're doing --- teaching correct principles in word and deed, and interacting in love with your extended family. 

The tough thing will be down the road when there is more of a clamor within the Church to "de-criminalize" it as a sin. That is: not to define it as a sin or something that keeps one from accessing the fulness of ordinances. Naturally, we don't teach that it's either "don't be gay or leave the church" (there has been a lot of outreach and softening of the message over the last several years), but active homosexuality is still the Rubicon one cannot cross and still have access to the temple and priesthood ordination. It is admittedly hard to be both welcoming and inclusive and at the same time firm and restrictive on those points. 

The difficult thing, in my experience with people, is that while there are many gay Mormons who believe in, support, and defend the Church's doctrine and practices (i.e., they are covenant and commandment keeping gay members), a great many end up doing a 180 on this eventually. So, while we can be as welcoming and inclusive as possible, the end result ends up being people separating themselves from the Church, despite genuine welcoming and inclusiveness. 

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Fether said:

I want to preface this with my beliefs. I believe whole heartedly that the Church is all it claims to be. I am a very orthodox member in the doctrine, and I recognize the many failings failings in the orthodox culture. Any response that includes suggestions that conflict with this will likely fall on deaf ears.

Some time around 2017, shortly after I got off my mission, my sister left the church, my brother came out as gay, and my other brother began to socially transition to be a girl. Though our quaint little stereotypical Utah Mormon family was rocked by all this coming all at once, we all quickly and effectively worked through it. Today, despite our difference in belief, we are a very tight knit family. I play video games with my siblings every weekend, we have very positive interactions and we speak about our difference in opinion openly and productively (except, of course,  for politics... politics is a hot topic we often avoid).

My question today is not how to deal with family and friends who come out as gay, there are ample resources for that. My concern is how do we teach our children gospel truths, urge them in that direction, but not teach it in such a way that if they do identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, they feel ostracized and like they can’t share.

I have listened to many podcasts on people sharing their experience growing up gay in the church and a lot of them share how traumatizing it was to be told homosexuality was a terrible sin. They even share how frustrating it is to hear “being gay is ok, doing gay is bad”.

I want to be able to raise my kids in the gospel, but do it in such a way that if they are gay, they don’t feel like they have to leave the church. I feel this is how my siblings and many others were taught. You can believe in God or you can be gay. I want to avoid that.

If I am honest with myself, I fear that if I introduce homosexuality to my kids too young, it may confuse them and even open up the option and then turn my kid gay.

Are there any resources for this? Books, articles, etc.?

From a “lay” perspective:

I think it is imperative to emphasize and teach them the Atonement of Christ first, and the doctrine of Christ second (as taught in 3 Nephi 11 – 12 Nephi 1, which is the first principles and ordinances of the gospel and our relationship with each other and our leaders). Then to teach them how to use their gift of the Holy Ghost in accessing the power of the Atonement of Christ for individual issues that arise. Of course, we do the same so we can provide guidance and counsel as the Lord would have us. Teaching the Restoration and advancing in the various ordinances should be in the context of supporting these first two. Prioritizing their responsibility and benefit regarding the ordinances and covenants helps them prioritize their identity as a beloved child of God before any other considerations.

Podcasts? Not at all for children on so many levels. Replace them with unconditional love and good examples from parents and Church leaders, and kindly point out when these are missing.

Specific to sexuality, there is at least one Church manual (the one I’m thinking of covers child development in general) that covers this topic: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/a-parents-guide?lang=eng

Some quick links i found:

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/ensign/2020/08/how-when-and-why-talking-to-your-children-about-sexuality?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/help-for-parents/talk-about-healthy-sexuality?lang=eng

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/a-parents-guide/chapter-5?lang=eng

You too have the gift of the Holy Ghost in accessing the power of the Atonement of Christ in addressing your fears and concerns.

[CV75]

26 minutes ago, rongo said:

I'm assuming you want to teach your children that active homosexuality is a sin (within the larger context of the plan of salvation, purpose of the whole law of chastity, age appropriate --- i.e., not singling out homosexuality), but that we love and are kind to everyone. I think this is the default setting in most of the homes of the Church (although it may not have been generations ago). I know of few people who are hostile to their gay friends, children, and extended family. To do that, you continue doing what you're doing --- teaching correct principles in word and deed, and interacting in love with your extended family. 

The tough thing will be down the road when there is more of a clamor within the Church to "de-criminalize" it as a sin. That is: not to define it as a sin or something that keeps one from accessing the fulness of ordinances. Naturally, we don't teach that it's either "don't be gay or leave the church" (there has been a lot of outreach and softening of the message over the last several years), but active homosexuality is still the Rubicon one cannot cross and still have access to the temple and priesthood ordination. It is admittedly hard to be both welcoming and inclusive and at the same time firm and restrictive on those points. 

The difficult thing, in my experience with people, is that while there are many gay Mormons who believe in, support, and defend the Church's doctrine and practices (i.e., they are covenant and commandment keeping gay members), a great many end up doing a 180 on this eventually. So, while we can be as welcoming and inclusive as possible, the end result ends up being people separating themselves from the Church, despite genuine welcoming and inclusiveness. 

Addressing the bolded items:

I think when people truly internalize the Atonement of Christ and come across these frustrations and barriers, they possess a confidence in repentance and forgiveness when they or a loved one/acquaintance/ward member breaks a moral commandment. I think of Helaman 5:12 in this regard. Sometimes we are “alone in Christ” – my term, but would be grateful if anyone can provide a scriptural basis! – in that though all else fails we find freedom* in knowing we are loved by and can find rescue and forgiveness in Him. I think those who do not struggle with this need to step up and be better examples of and support in relying on the mercies and grace of Christ, and eliminating contentious attitudes from the Church environment.

* freedom to do good to others, honor God, etc. despite our sins and weaknesses, and perhaps from the power of temptation (Ether 12:27, 32-34, 37)

[AtlanticMike]

16 minutes ago, Fether said:

. Today, despite our difference in belief, we are a very tight knit family. I play video games with my siblings every weekend, we have very positive interactions and we speak about our difference in opinion openly and productively (except, of course,  for politics... politics is a hot topic we often avoid).

Perfect

17 minutes ago, Fether said:

My concern is how do we teach our children gospel truths, urge them in that direction, but not teach it in such a way that if they do identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, they feel ostracized and like they can’t share.

My suggestion would be before even worrying about gospel truths, teach them how to be strong, confident and totally secure in who they are. Help them realize everyone has an opinion and choose carefully who they let into their circle of influence. Love them unconditionally and let them know it everyday, multiple times a day, don't be afraid to say I love you, don't be afraid to compliment them daily, also multiple times a day, not only on their inner beauty, but also outward beauty. And most of all LISTEN, that way you can adjust your plan, don't be rigid in your approach, kids change over time and what worked when they were 6 doesn't necessarily come into play when they're 16.  Teaching them gospel truths is easy because you have so many people willing to help, plus all the material you need is at your finger tips.

    Basically, it's your responsibility to give your kids the tools they need to deal with adversity and criticism no matter if they're straight or gay. Gospel truths is part of that plan, but don't make the mistake of thinking it's everything. 

44 minutes ago, Fether said:

I have listened to many podcasts on people sharing their experience growing up gay in the church and a lot of them share how traumatizing it was to be told homosexuality was a terrible sin. They even share how frustrating it is to hear “being gay is ok, doing gay is bad”.

Again, teach them how to be confident no matter what they face in life. Tell them life is full of terrible experiences and that life is made up of good days and bad days. But even that's not enough, take it further, teach them how to get through the bad days, so many people get stuck in life because they can't get past a situation they find themselves in. 

    I knew my daughter was gay years before she told us she was. In preparation I gave her many, many tough crappy situations she had to find her way out of. These situations helped her realize she was a strong female that could fight through anything that was hindering her progress. The church is great for many aspects of childhood development but it shouldn't be the only resource you use. 

59 minutes ago, Fether said:

I want to be able to raise my kids in the gospel, but do it in such a way that if they are gay, they don’t feel like they have to leave the church. I feel this is how my siblings and many others were taught. You can believe in God or you can be gay. I want to avoid that.

Ultimately, the gospel is the relationship you have with Jesus Christ, that's it. No one else's opinion matters. Everything I wrote above is about realizing just that, a relationship between one person and their savor. The church is no different than any other organization. It's made up of people who judge, some are nice, some are mean, some are even cruel.  If you can help your kids understand that, and I mean really understand that, they will be ahead of the game when they encounter foolish people trying to tear them down, in or outside the church.

1 hour ago, Fether said:

 I am truest honest with myself, I fear that if I introduce homosexuality to my kids too young, it may confuse them and even open up the option and then turn my kid gay.

I personally believe many gay people are born gay, one of my friends since kindergarten was always very feminine and is now married to another man. But I also believe certain life experiences can cause people to choose a life of same sex attraction. Here's what I'll say about this, love your spouse, be affectionate in front of your kids and never fight in front of them. Monitor what they watch and hear and be careful who influences them. You should be doing this no matter what. A percentage of people have been gay since people have been people. There's no need to introduce homosexuality to your kids, just be open and willing to do your parental responsibility. Be willing to change and you'll have an awesome relationship with your kids for years to come.

[Fether]

8 minutes ago, AtlanticMike said:

My suggestion would be before even worrying about gospel truths, teach them how to be strong, confident and totally secure in who they are.

This is great, but I’m not going to be raising a 14 year old from day one. They are going to be learning about Christ and repentance long before they would even be able to grasp the concept of sexuality. I won’t wait till I can teach them how to be independent and love themselves before I teach them about the laws of God.

the concept of right and wrong is an important one to learn and is very simple. How to be independently strong and have self love is for many a concept most won’t grasp until teen years. And some even won’t grasp that until they themselves have teens they are raising.

[Kevin Christensen]

There is this sort of thing.  Not always the answer, but certainly a factor often enough to be a legitimate question:

http://www.squaretwo.org/Sq2ArticleChristensenRashomon.html

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

[Tacenda]

There is a couple in my old ward who my husband and I have hung out with that had their son come out gay recently. He's never really dated a girl but growing up he had female friends usually. He went on a mission and came home early because of anxiety. His parents are pretty orthodox LDS. Her other son has left the church, so this has been a tough few years. Her brother also left the church and turned to alcohol and took his life. So this woman and her husband have been through the wringer. The husband can't grasp that his son is gay. I so want to share the following podcast with them. But don't know how they'll take it if I do. Don't know if this will help Fether, or if this will go in one ear and out the next. 

https://lattergaystories.org/episode/139-our-gay-kids-a-mothers-perspective/

 

[Teancum]

2 hours ago, Fether said:

I want to preface this with my beliefs. I believe whole heartedly that the Church is all it claims to be. I am a very orthodox member in the doctrine, and I recognize the many failings failings in the orthodox culture. Any response that includes suggestions that conflict with this will likely fall on deaf ears.

Some time around 2017, shortly after I got off my mission, my sister left the church, my brother came out as gay, and my other brother began to socially transition to be a girl. Though our quaint little stereotypical Utah Mormon family was rocked by all this coming all at once, we all quickly and effectively worked through it. Today, despite our difference in belief, we are a very tight knit family. I play video games with my siblings every weekend, we have very positive interactions and we speak about our difference in opinion openly and productively (except, of course,  for politics... politics is a hot topic we often avoid).

My question today is not how to deal with family and friends who come out as gay, there are ample resources for that. My concern is how do we teach our children gospel truths, urge them in that direction, but not teach it in such a way that if they do identify on the LGBTQ+ spectrum, they feel ostracized and like they can’t share.

I have listened to many podcasts on people sharing their experience growing up gay in the church and a lot of them share how traumatizing it was to be told homosexuality was a terrible sin. They even share how frustrating it is to hear “being gay is ok, doing gay is bad”.

I want to be able to raise my kids in the gospel, but do it in such a way that if they are gay, they don’t feel like they have to leave the church. I feel this is how my siblings and many others were taught. You can believe in God or you can be gay. I want to avoid that.

If I am honest with myself, I fear that if I introduce homosexuality to my kids too young, it may confuse them and even open up the option and then turn my kid gay.

Are there any resources for this? Books, articles, etc.?

If I had a gay child I would encourage them to leave the church and live an authentic life rather than one  based on so called "revelation" and of course unprovable religious dogma>  Life is short and likely this is the only one we have.  Let them live it well to the fullest which should include a meaningful relationship with someone they love.

[CV75]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

My approach would be to take one truth at a time, considering each in the context of your faith and understanding. If you run into a lack of harmony, set that aside and wait (patiently, it takes time) for a greater understanding that resolves things.

I think this addresses the tendency for people to get taken off-guard, and try to address the problem as if it is the center of things, when Christ is at the center of things.

[AtlanticMike]

45 minutes ago, Fether said:

I won’t wait till I can teach them how to be independent and love themselves before I teach them about the laws of God.

I'm just sharing what my wife and I did. We started teaching our kids how to be independent and love themselves right around when they started walking. In my opinion a lot of the anxiety and depression many kids/teens deal with today is because many parents don't teach their kids how to cope with adversity, natural fears faced throughout childhood. I'm not putting the gospel down, I'm just saying to help a growing child/young adult understand the difficulties life might throw them it's better to start early and not wait til it's to late. 

[Chum]

58 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think this addresses the tendency for people to get taken off-guard, and try to address the problem as if it is the center of things, when Christ is at the center of things.

I don't think so.  What I offered doesn't really put anything at the center. It's just some general guidance suggesting we not rush to conclusions and action, when things don't line up as expected.

[CV75]

52 minutes ago, Chum said:

I don't think so.  What I offered doesn't really put anything at the center. It's just some general guidance suggesting we not rush to conclusions and action, when things don't line up as expected.

But that is why I gave you a rep point. For me, taking one truth at a time keeps Christ at the center, not the perceived problem, and from there, people can deal with problems as they arise. Keeping Christ at the center grounds us against rushing into conclusions and actions that might detract from Him when momentarily distracted by the unexpected or unwelcome.

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, CV75 said:

But that is why I gave you a rep point. For me, taking one truth at a time keeps Christ at the center, not the perceived problem, and from there, people can deal with problems as they arise. Keeping Christ at the center grounds us against rushing into conclusions and actions that might detract from Him when momentarily distracted by the unexpected or unwelcome.

That's good because Jesus never condemns gay people. In fact homosexuality was added to the Bible, and the Bible scriptures are mainly talking about men sleeping with boys. https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-“homosexual”-always-been-in-the-bible/

[CV75]

42 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That's good because Jesus never condemns gay people. In fact homosexuality was added to the Bible, and the Bible scriptures are mainly talking about men sleeping with boys. https://um-insight.net/perspectives/has-“homosexual”-always-been-in-the-bible/

I think it's good because He leads out with the invitation to receive His atonement and the means by which we can do that. He doesn't condemn until the push-back shows up.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, Fether said:

If I am honest with myself, I fear that if I introduce homosexuality to my kids too young, it may confuse them and even open up the option and then turn my kid gay.

There are many things in culture that confuse kids, not just the sexual discussions that covers much more than just identity, but also expressions of appropriate premarital behaviour, clothing, respect for others, etc.  Figuring out a global approach to teaching the gospel that includes limitations and choices would probably be more helpful than a unique approach to any particular LGBTQ+ paradigm.

 “Turning gay” is unlikely.  But we are sexually fluid beings living in cultures that may allow or restrict expression of this fluidity and thus make us appear more rigid than we are or interfere with a fuller choice due to ways of thinking and behaving our environment instills in our brain, combining with biological tendencies that can be come fixed relatively quickly in some.  But fluidity is still there, more so than most realize (see Lisa Diamonds’ work) and if someone is emotionally open to a less binary approach, at some point they will likely experience attraction outside the typical male/female.  And if they have been taught the lines are rigid they may make the wrong assumptions about themselves and narrow their options to a point that prevents then from continuing down the path they have chosen early.  I actually think we do more harm teaching male/female as rigid, permanent identities and attractions we cannot personally affect because when someone is more in the fluid area of the spectrum, they may interpret what might be one expression of their sexual fluidity as the only one, locking their expectations on that ‘identity’ rather then seeing oneself as a more active participant in choice. 
 

My advice...Teaching the church’s doctrine about what is the good to come, what we can achieve, emphasizing that this is true no matter where we start from by working towards certain goals, either alone or with someone who is an appropriate partner in many more ways than just sexual attraction seems to me possibly the way to go.  What do they want to find at the end of the path?  And not to shut them down if what they want isn’t the standard celestial version of the white picket fence, but help them visualize how what they desire might be also achieve through the Gospel, looking at how we can choose to externally express internal states in a variety of ways while remaining on path to our eternal goals.
 

Maybe use moving into a new house as a metaphor for dying for young children perhaps and talk about what is it you would want to take to the new house with you, including tools and skills to serve as a foundation to build new things, do new things in your new life as well as people.  
 

One may start out with a set of biological and cultural givens that are pretty baked in early on...learning what one’s unique combinations are for oneself may take time, but one can start using them wisely even when unsure exactly what they are to seek down the chosen path and one can start imagining what one wants and how one might get there from where one is.

I think teaching the path to God is always there as soon as we turn towards him even in small ways is important, teach them God forgives, no one goes too far for God to find them.  And teaching taking the path should be a conscious choice, a work in progress, not just something, a list of things to do and not do or a set of Mom and Dad’s goals given to us by our parents or church.  The Gospel is not something that is imposed upon us, a piece of armor we must adapt to.  It is a fertile ground we can grow deep roots into so we can reach the heights with our branches.

If we create an intelligent, reasonable paradigm about our mortal and post mortal journey whose end goal is seeking God and seek what we want to become, where what choice can be is realistically explored (limitations exist, but they might not be as narrow as we think and we may even find that one limit leads to great flexibility in another area) then other factors as a person grows and is exposed to new ideas are more likely to be able to become part of the structure in a positive way.

Edited May 12, 2021 by Calm

[rpn]

I hope today that no one is teaching that homosexuality is a sin ---- our leaders have unequivocably said that is NOT our doctrine.

I think we teach that gender is eternal, and that everyone is invited to live the commandments.  That different people have different struggles with different commandments and that all of His children retain the capacity to follow the commandments whatever our personal difficulties with doing so.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I have a PhD in history, so my approach is certainly shaped by that. I don't have children of my own, but I have long worked with young men and young missionaries and have taught them the following facts that are fully supported by historical and anthropological research:

• the concept of fixed, gendered sexual identities (both hetero- and homo-) is a late 19th-century social construct that has no historical precedent and, despite 150 years of Western colonisation of the imagination, these still haven't become natural categories across all cultures
• same-sex sexual behaviour has been ubiquitous since the beginning of recorded history (along with opposite-sex and other behaviours too numerous to list), though it has been framed in a dizzying number of ways across both time and space, with some cultures (for example, many Melanesian ones) having once required it as part of normal human development
• it is perfectly normal to experience various kinds of attractions to both males and females
• it is also perfectly normal not to be attracted to an entire class of people; for example, a male does not have to be attracted to females as a class, and to be honest, this can make living the Law of Chastity much easier!
• whilst some cultures offer very narrow gender stereotypes, there are actually an infinite number of ways to be a righteous man or woman
• the one constant is that all these things are fluid because humans are dynamic

To which I add the following:

• God, aware that sexuality is powerful, has provided guidelines to keep us safe and happy and help us to become most like Him
• we are currently in a historically unique time that presents a number of complications for Saints, so don't worry if you feel confused at times
• you are going to screw up in one or more areas of the Law of Chastity; I know because I have done the same
• don't panic when you find yourself in a headspace that doesn't fully match your eternal desires; this is a perfectly normal part of discipleship, which is why we have so many scriptures about it
• NEVER listen to someone who wants to place you in a box and keep you there; the whole point of the gospel is to free us from such limitations
• wherever you are in this process, I love you, and you are important to me
• it is essential that we are all nice to each other since we're all works in progress
• remember that perception is reality, so when people believe things about themselves that aren't true, those things are true to them at that point in time; try to be someone people might listen to when they're ready to shift their perceptions

I've had several young men and at least one former missionary thank me for taking this approach with them. They report feeling empowered by knowing the truth.

Edited September 9, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I have a PhD in history, so my approach is certainly shaped by that. I don't have children of my own, but I have long worked with young men and young missionaries and have taught them the following facts that are fully supported by historical and anthropological research:

• the concept of fixed, gendered sexual identities (both hetero- and homo-) are late 19th-century social constructs that have no historical precedence and, despite 150 of Western colonisation of the imagination, still haven't become natural categories across all cultures
• same-sex sexual behaviour has been ubiquitous since the beginning of recorded history (along with opposite-sex and other behaviours too numerous to list), though it has been framed in a dizzying number of ways across both time and space, with some cultures (for example, many Melanesian ones) having once required it as part of normal human development
• it is perfectly normal to experience various kinds of attractions to both males and females
• it is also perfectly normal not to be attracted to an entire class of people; for example, a male does not have to be attracted to females as a class, and to be honest, this can make living the Law of Chastity much easier!
• whilst some cultures offer very narrow gender stereotypes, there are actually an infinite number of ways to be a righteous man or woman
• the one constant is that all these things are fluid because humans are dynamic

To which I add the following:

• God, aware that sexuality is powerful, has provided guidelines to keep us safe and happy and help us to become most like Him
• we are currently in a historically unique time that presents a number of complications for Saints, so don't worry if you feel confused at times
• you are going to screw up in one or more areas of the Law of Chastity; I know because I have done the same
• don't panic when you find yourself in a headspace that doesn't fully match your eternal desires; this is a perfectly normal part of discipleship, which is why we have so many scriptures about it
• NEVER listen to someone who wants to place you in a box and keep you there; the whole point of the gospel is to free us from such limitations
• wherever you are in this process, I love you, and you are important to me
• it is essential that we are all nice to each other since we're all works in progress
• remember that perception is reality, so when people believe things that aren't true, those things are true to them at that point in time; try to be someone people might listen to when they're ready shift their perceptions

I've had several young men and at least one former missionary thank me for taking this approach with them. They report feeling empowered by knowing the truth.

Good information, and sharing of your personal life and feelings of love. 

[teddyaware]

3 hours ago, rpn said:

I hope today that no one is teaching that homosexuality is a sin ---- our leaders have unequivocably said that is NOT our doctrine.

I think we teach that gender is eternal, and that everyone is invited to live the commandments.  That different people have different struggles with different commandments and that all of His children retain the capacity to follow the commandments whatever our personal difficulties with doing so.

If the Savior warns us that it’s sinful for a heterosexual man to lust after a woman, even if it’s only in his imagination, does the same also hold true for homosexual men? The apparent inequity of these two similar challenges of physical desire lies in the fact that while a heterosexual man has access to a divinely approved outlet for his sexual desires in the person of his willing wife, a gay man has no such divinely approved outlet for his sexual desires. So unless it isn’t sinful for homosexuals to engage in gay sexual fantasies, it seems to me the only other option for them is to consciously train their minds into becoming asexual, to the point that they no longer engaging in any lustful ideations of gay sexual activity. So it seems to me things would be either as just stated or somehow God cuts homosexuals some extra slack because there are no righteous outlets for their sexual desires.

Edited May 13, 2021 by teddyaware

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

If the Savior warns us that it’s sinful for a heterosexual man to lust after a woman ...

For the obvious reason of anachronism, I don't think the Saviour has ever directed any of his warnings in scripture specifically to the historically bound category of 'heterosexual' men.

Quote

... the fact that while a heterosexual man has access to a divinely approved outlet for his sexual desires in the person of his willing wife ...

To be blunt, your 'fact' is not a fact for the majority of adult men in the Church.

Edited May 13, 2021 by Hamba Tuhan

[Meadowchik]

We were fully believing until four years ago, and at that time I was in a similar place as you. I was concerned that I might have a LGBT child. I had gone through my own wrestle with the Spirit over the church's position opposing same-sex marriage and defended it for years and years. In so doing, and with listening to more and more LGBT individuals, my heart had been softened many times and my compassion and understanding had grown beyond what it had previously been. My older children knew how my feelings had evolved and seemed to appreciate and agree with the compassionate stance.

Then, however, we left the church. It was for reasons unrelated to its position on homosexuality.

Once we told our children about our changing beliefs about the church, they were able to be more open. We had two teens who, unbeknownst to us, already privately identified as LGBT. Despite being close and being in general agreement on most of the issues, one of them, after expressing their surprise and relief, confided that they had been planning to just up and leave at 18 and never look back. They knew we would be gay-tolerant and that we would personally be accepting as much as we could. But they were also keenly aware that as members of the church who sustained the leadership, we still fostered the beliefs that they would not be fully welcomed as an LGBT individual. 

Such is the case with the church's position. It is not completely welcoming to LGBT persons as they are, it does not treat their relationships as worthy of the same aspirations and holiness that it treats heterosexual relationships. It is a painful reality that as much as we feel that love and compassion, the actions speak too, and cannot be completely mitigated by our good intentions. 

As a parent I can see this, and looking back as a child born and raised in the church, I see the pattern there, too. Parents can teach their children principles and try to impress upon them the core of the gospel truths and the spirit of the law. Yet, at the same time, by introducing their children to the church and involving them in the church community, parents also set up the church as an authority to their children. The church then, impresses upon each child differently: the local leaders, the local messages, the materials, scriptures, and global messaging all interact with the minds of children in ways that parents cannot completely predict. If there is some harmful messaging in that milieu of information, it inherently has a special importance--more than other messages from the world--because we have set the church up as a primary source of truth in their lives. 

In that way, the church messaging is different from other messages of the world. In my experience as a child, the church messaging eclipsed my parents' messaging. In retrospect I could see my parents trying to mitigate some of the harmful messages swirling around in church culture, but their efforts could not compete with the the church's, nor with the authority inherently attached to messages from (sometimes misguided) church members.

In this way, I do think LDS parents are presented with a difficult predicament. My personal belief, after all we have gone through before and after these major changes, and seeing how the changes have impacted our children, I would encourage 

1) good communication, in word and deed

2) strict adherence to their agency and consent, and full dignity in their choices

3) the habit of improvement, the ability to apologize as a parent and apologize well, this does two things a) increases trust because I'm willing to admit I'm wrong and change, b) shows them they can do the same and that repentance is a healthy part of good relationships

LDS people are surely not the only people who set up entities outside their families as authorities for their children. I think most human societies do this to some extent. The outside entity could be church, school, government, or pretty much anything else. It is good to be aware of what we're doing, though, so that we can help our kids manage the messages they hear as they learn and grow.

[JLHPROF]

19 hours ago, Teancum said:

If I had a gay child I would encourage them to leave the church

I might as well.  Though probably for different reasons.