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'Lazy learner'


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i'm seeing people show their university degrees and reacting to being called a lazy learner, which is bananas because I think they heard wrong-if they heard it at all and got it second hand

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57 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Lots of "if I doubts it has nothing to do with me" 

Right.  But going on Reddit or social media isn’t going to help resolve it.  

My wife belongs to an LDS mom’s group on FB...I’m not too impressed with some of the stuff she shares from there.  Pretty disappointing sometimes.

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53 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Apparently I missed where Pres. Nelson called everyone who had doubts lazy learners.  Does anyone have a quote?  I'm starting to see it crop up on Facebook and there's a lot of hurt and indignation going around.  Lots of "if I doubts it has nothing to do with me" type of stuff.

Edit to add the quote:

“Your mountains may be loneliness, doubt, illness, or other personal problems. Your mountains will vary, and yet the answer to each of your challenges is to increase your faith. That takes work. Lazy learners and lax disciples will always struggle to muster even a particle of faith."

My perspective isn't going to be popular with some but I think most of us have been lazy learners and lax diciples sometimes, haven't we?  And how can being a lazy learner and lax disciple not impact our faith?  I don't think that Pres. Nelson was saying that every time we struggle with faith it's our fault.

All President Nelson is saying is when it comes spiritual progress and gaining a deeper love and appreciation for God, we will reap as we have sown, also known as the law of the harvest. On other occasions the prophet speaks of the gift of repentance and how the atonement of Christ allows us to put past failures behind us and begin our spiritual walk with God anew. Both are oft repeated themes in the scriptures. And it goes without saying that if one remains a lazy learner and never gets around to repenting of his indifference, he will reap in equal measure to what he has sown. Simple common sense advice..

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25 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Right.  But going on Reddit or social media isn’t going to help resolve it.  

My wife belongs to an LDS mom’s group on FB...I’m not too impressed with some of the stuff she shares from there.  Pretty disappointing sometimes.

I was probably in that same group (it has 10s of thousands of members if I remember right) and I had to leave.  It was a horrible place overall, way to much contention, self-righteousness, indignation, and judging.

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5 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I was probably in that same group (it has 10s of thousands of members if I remember right) and I had to leave.  It was a horrible place overall, way to much contention, self-righteousness, indignation, and judging.

Yeah, sounds about right.

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I always thought lazy learners are those who believe information without investigating critically both sides of the argument.

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54 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I always thought lazy learners are those who believe information without investigating critically both sides of the argument.

In your rush to denigrate the church and its members, you've missed his entire point.

Edited by JustAnAustralian
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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I must have missed this in his talk. I did say I liked it but not so sure anymore.

And so we must study it out.....  ;)

;)

 

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What he does not acknowledge though, is that doubt can be a legitimate product of earnest faith and diligent work. A person can doubt the truth claims of the church in complete integrity and sincerity. One can even make an argument that complete integrity requires doubt in those claims.

In the long run, it is religions in general who are asking diligent learners to leave some of their diligence aside to invest in trying out their own specific hypotheses. But they do this while often treating those who refuse to leave that diligence aside as lacking in integrity or worthiness. This can create tremendous conflicts in individuals and interpersonal conflicts in relationships.

A more honest approach would be to say something like, "Doubting Person A is making a completely legitimate choice if they choose to not invest in our hypothesis. In doing so they do not forfeit the ability to find truth or goodness, and we can accomplish a lot with the doubters when we work together in forwarding our common values."

 

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15 minutes ago, JustAnAustralian said:

His comments were about more than just "doubts". He's not saying that doubting people aren't putting in effort. He's saying that you can't build faith without putting in effort.

Your hypothetical Doubting Person A, might after putting in effort not increase their faith, but he's saying that if they don't put in any effort then they definitely won't increase their faith.

His remarks that I addressed:

Quote

“Your mountains may be loneliness, doubt, illness, or other personal problems. Your mountains will vary, and yet the answer to each of your challenges is to increase your faith. That takes work. Lazy learners and lax disciples will always struggle to muster even a particle of faith."

My full response:

Quote

 

What he does not acknowledge though, is that doubt can be a legitimate product of earnest faith and diligent work. A person can doubt the truth claims of the church in complete integrity and sincerity. One can even make an argument that complete integrity requires doubt in those claims.

In the long run, it is religions in general who are asking diligent learners to leave some of their diligence aside to invest in trying out their own specific hypotheses. But they do this while often treating those who refuse to leave that diligence aside as lacking in integrity or worthiness. This can create tremendous conflicts in individuals and interpersonal conflicts in relationships.

A more honest approach would be to say something like, "Doubting Person A is making a completely legitimate choice if they choose to not invest in our hypothesis. In doing so they do not forfeit the ability to find truth or goodness, and we can accomplish a lot with the doubters when we work together in forwarding our common values."

 

My comments were also about more than just doubts.

He's saying that faith is the answer to each "mountain" a person can face in life, with the implication that it is the version of faith he espouses. It is a very rigid view of how to approach the inevitable problems in life. Yet he doesn't stop there, he choses to associate laziness and poor devotion to lack of faith.

I can see how people are upset by this rhetoric. 

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9 hours ago, 2BizE said:

I always thought lazy learners are those who believe information without investigating critically both sides of the argument.

In order to understand what Pres. Nelson is saying, we have to know how he is using the word. Not how we would use it. 

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56 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

His remarks that I addressed:

My full response:

My comments were also about more than just doubts.

He's saying that faith is the answer to each "mountain" a person can face in life, with the implication that it is the version of faith he espouses. It is a very rigid view of how to approach the inevitable problems in life. Yet he doesn't stop there, he choses to associate laziness and poor devotion to lack of faith.

I can see how people are upset by this rhetoric. 

Is it possible to be a lazy learner in the gospel of Christ and to be a lax disciple of Christ, and increase in faith?

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46 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Is it possible to be a lazy learner in the gospel of Christ and to be a lax disciple of Christ, and increase in faith?

Is it possible that faith decreases when people are diligent in the gospel and strong in their discipleship of Christ?

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8 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Is it possible that faith decreases when people are diligent in the gospel and strong in their discipleship of Christ?

No.  Because you either nurture the faith, or you nurture the doubt.  It’s why doubt is universally condemned in the New Testament.  
 

You’re literally making the argument that someone CAN serve two masters.

 

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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Is it possible that faith decreases when people are diligent in the gospel and strong in their discipleship of Christ?

Yes, I think that's possible, for a time. 

In my personal experience, trials often happen to people who are being diligent and strong, and some of those trials can wreak havoc on our faith, even starting out with that diligence and strength.  I do believe, and my personal experience has shown me, that if people continue on being diligent in the gospel and strong in their discipleship even as faith wanes, that it eventually returns and increases.  But the timing is the Lord's, and that itself can be a very difficult trial. (I understand that many unbelievers will not agree with that answer).

Now, can you answer my question?  Do you think it's possible to be a lazy learner in the gospel of Christ and to be a lax disciple of Christ, and increase in faith?  Personally, I don't believe it's possible.  I have had times in my life (many) where I have been lazy and lax and neither my faith nor my testimony were strengthened during those times.  Without fail those were the times my faith became lazy and lax as well.

Edited by bluebell
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48 minutes ago, Rain said:

It might help to stop listening to what the rest of us have to say and just spend some time with the Lord and find out what he has to say.  Listen to the talk again and then stay off the internet for 3 days and ask the Lord what He thought about the talk.  Not just one time.  Think about the different parts and tell the Lord where you have concerns.  Listen to find out what the Lord thinks about those concerns.

Sometimes when I say things like this people think I am trying to manipulate others to stay in the  church.  I'm not.  I just want you to be able to find out what the Lord really thinks no matter which way it falls.

As I've thought on this, I realize I might rely too much on other's opinions. And listen easily to many podcasts, since I'm not much of a reader these days because it's hard on my eyes. Or that's my excuse.

Was thinking how Joseph Smith doubted and sought out other ways of thinking, is he a lazy learner I wonder? I might be lazy since I'm not well schooled in the intellectual things. But otoh I feel I'm not lazy because I could have stopped belief in God/Jesus but I'm still trying to learn more things on that end. Not saying atheists are lazy, I'm sure they wrestled and fought hard not to lose that belief.  

I might be a choosy learner I guess. I guess we all learn differently, in fact we all do exactly that. I wonder if Pres Nelson's comment will stay in the script for the Liahona. Or maybe we're taking this too far, haha.

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7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Now, can you answer my question?  Do you think it's possible to be a lazy learner in the gospel of Christ and to be a lax disciple of Christ, and increase in faith? 

I believe both your question and mine are loaded questions. Both are assuming the person is actually engaging "the gospel of Christ". But, yes I do believe one can increase their conviction in something without effort. Time alone tends to have an impact on belief. I know on my mission I would run into people who would would loudly claim their belief in their own religion even though they had not participate in it in any way for years.

 

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