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Bombshell BYU announcement


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I really enjoyed my years at BYU (1993-1999), but to me, it isn't the same school now as the one I attended then. Although my oldest was accepted, he turned down the half-tuition offered for a full-ride somewhere else. I still follow and root for BYU in sports, but our other children aren't even considering attending BYU. In our circle of friends and acquaintances, there has been a big uptick in rejections for admission or transfer at BYU. Rejections have always been there, as BYU is highly competitive, but I've never seen it to this extent. 5 out of 6 in my son's MTC district were rejected, as well as several others in his mission. Several of my daughter's friends at NAU who had applied for a transfer have also been turned down. My son's "girlfriend" (we don't allow steady dating in high school, but they would if they could) was really down when she got her rejection. 

I think part of it is probably a large group of students who deferred this Covid year, but are returning next year. It's probably harder than ever for Utahns to be accepted. I also think that another possible factor is this bombshell announcement from BYU:

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/2/26/22303466/official-committee-says-byu-must-root-out-racism-without-delay-provo-utah

There are clearly going to be affirmative action quotas designed to increase enrollment in targeted demographic groups, and this will lead to increases in rejections for other students who otherwise might have gotten in. Whether or not this has played a role yet in this year admissions, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did --- even though it's not fully implemented yet.

The end of the article contains the 26 point action item list. Here is my summary/translation of them. I realize that some might take issue with my editorializing or paraphrasing (out of PC legalese gobblety-gook), but this is a discussion board :) 

BYU’s Committee on Race and Equity released a 63 page report explaining 26 action items that it says must be implemented „without delay“ to bring about „historic, transformative change“ to BYU Provo.

1. Create an Office of Diversity.

2. Create a new position of Vice President of Diversity.

3. Give these new positions authority and „teeth.“

4. Develop and implement training programs on diversity, equity, and racism for administrators, faculty and staff, and students.

5. Change the curriculum for general education, religion, and elective classes to educate about racism and diversity.

6. Update the current „Aims of a BYU Education“ to reflect these changes.

7. Promote and implement „Fostering an Enriched Environment Policy“ (making BYU less racist) throughout the university.

8. Instruct colleges and departments to change mission statements to reflect these changes.

9. Establish a permanent committee to advance equity for BIPOC (black, indigenous, and people of color) faculty and students.

10. Create „strategic initiatives for recruitment, admission, scholarships, financial aid, retention, and success“ for BIPOC students (i.e., quotas -- numbers have to go up, no matter what).

11. „Form a Recruitment, Admissions, and Student Success Committee“ to implement #10.

12. Develop a strategic plan to increase graduation rates for BIPOC students.

13. Recruit and attract more BIPOC students to BYU.

14. Perform an independent evaluation of the admissions process – especially weighting – to make it more „holistic“ and enable more BIPOC students to qualify for admissions (i.e., lower standards, at least for affirmative action students).

15. Have the legal department/BYU Counsel „evaluate the legal parameters of a race-conscious admissions model for BYU“ (i.e., make sure we don't run afoul of affirmative action laws, reverse-discrimination, etc.)

16. Endow a Jane Manning James and Elijah Able scholarship for BIPOC students.

17. Create other scholarships for BIPOC students.

18. Create a more robust process for students to report incidents of racism at BYU.

19. Have a more „holistic“ standard for BIPOC students for prestigious scholarships (i.e., put the thumb on the scale for BIPOC students, but not for whites and Asians).

20. Establish a visible, permanent „safe space“ on campus for „underrepresented groups.“

21. Ensure that the honor code is applied with „cultural competence and sensitivity.“ (i.e., avoid being accused of racism if a BIPOC student runs afoul of the honor code. In practice, this means a different standard for them than for white or Asian students). 

22. Recruit, attract, and retain more BIPOC faculty to BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in hiring)

23. Assist and incentivize BIPOC students who want to pursue graduate school. (i.e., affirmative action in grad school admissions)

24. Attract more BIPOC PhD. students to present and conduct their research at BYU.

25. Reduce „cultural taxation burdens“ for BIPOC faculty at BYU. (This bizarre PC expression refers to BIPOC faculty feeling judged or culturally uncomfortable within the dominant BYU LDS culture). 

26. Promote more BIPOC faculty into senior administrative positions at BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in administration).

---

I think that some will be dancing in the streets over this, and others will be dismayed. Either way, this is big news. 

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12 minutes ago, rongo said:

lower standards, at least for affirmative action students

Or possibly different standards perhaps, putting more emphasis on community participation or personal circumstances rather than GPA or ACT results...which to me is a good thing if one’s intent is more to build a Zion community rather than an academically recognized institution.

I think it is a good idea.  More experiences as a young adult means less awkwardness as an older adult leading to more cohesiveness in congregations.  I hope they bring in more foreign students as part of it.

Implemention will likely include missteps, but hopefully most are beneficial to creating a greater sense of community for all, not just locally, but as a worldwide church.

Having more American students going to other colleges will hopefully raise numbers at institutions, making it easier to find marriage partners who are members (longevity of a marriage increases with similar religious views).

Edited by Calm
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8 minutes ago, rongo said:

I really enjoyed my years at BYU (1993-1999), but to me, it isn't the same school now as the one I attended then. Although my oldest was accepted, he turned down the half-tuition offered for a full-ride somewhere else. I still follow and root for BYU in sports, but our other children aren't even considering attending BYU. In our circle of friends and acquaintances, there has been a big uptick in rejections for admission or transfer at BYU. Rejections have always been there, as BYU is highly competitive, but I've never seen it to this extent. 5 out of 6 in my son's MTC district were rejected, as well as several others in his mission. Several of my daughter's friends at NAU who had applied for a transfer have also been turned down. My son's "girlfriend" (we don't allow steady dating in high school, but they would if they could) was really down when she got her rejection. 

I think part of it is probably a large group of students who deferred this Covid year, but are returning next year. It's probably harder than ever for Utahns to be accepted. I also think that another possible factor is this bombshell announcement from BYU:

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/2/26/22303466/official-committee-says-byu-must-root-out-racism-without-delay-provo-utah

There are clearly going to be affirmative action quotas designed to increase enrollment in targeted demographic groups, and this will lead to increases in rejections for other students who otherwise might have gotten in. Whether or not this has played a role yet in this year admissions, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did --- even though it's not fully implemented yet.

The end of the article contains the 26 point action item list. Here is my summary/translation of them. I realize that some might take issue with my editorializing or paraphrasing (out of PC legalese gobblety-gook), but this is a discussion board :) 

BYU’s Committee on Race and Equity released a 63 page report explaining 26 action items that it says must be implemented „without delay“ to bring about „historic, transformative change“ to BYU Provo.

1. Create an Office of Diversity.

2. Create a new position of Vice President of Diversity.

3. Give these new positions authority and „teeth.“

4. Develop and implement training programs on diversity, equity, and racism for administrators, faculty and staff, and students.

5. Change the curriculum for general education, religion, and elective classes to educate about racism and diversity.

6. Update the current „Aims of a BYU Education“ to reflect these changes.

7. Promote and implement „Fostering an Enriched Environment Policy“ (making BYU less racist) throughout the university.

8. Instruct colleges and departments to change mission statements to reflect these changes.

9. Establish a permanent committee to advance equity for BIPOC (black, indigenous, and people of color) faculty and students.

10. Create „strategic initiatives for recruitment, admission, scholarships, financial aid, retention, and success“ for BIPOC students (i.e., quotas -- numbers have to go up, no matter what).

11. „Form a Recruitment, Admissions, and Student Success Committee“ to implement #10.

12. Develop a strategic plan to increase graduation rates for BIPOC students.

13. Recruit and attract more BIPOC students to BYU.

14. Perform an independent evaluation of the admissions process – especially weighting – to make it more „holistic“ and enable more BIPOC students to qualify for admissions (i.e., lower standards, at least for affirmative action students).

15. Have the legal department/BYU Counsel „evaluate the legal parameters of a race-conscious admissions model for BYU“ (i.e., make sure we don't run afoul of affirmative action laws, reverse-discrimination, etc.)

16. Endow a Jane Manning James and Elijah Able scholarship for BIPOC students.

17. Create other scholarships for BIPOC students.

18. Create a more robust process for students to report incidents of racism at BYU.

19. Have a more „holistic“ standard for BIPOC students for prestigious scholarships (i.e., put the thumb on the scale for BIPOC students, but not for whites and Asians).

20. Establish a visible, permanent „safe space“ on campus for „underrepresented groups.“

21. Ensure that the honor code is applied with „cultural competence and sensitivity.“ (i.e., avoid being accused of racism if a BIPOC student runs afoul of the honor code. In practice, this means a different standard for them than for white or Asian students). 

22. Recruit, attract, and retain more BIPOC faculty to BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in hiring)

23. Assist and incentivize BIPOC students who want to pursue graduate school. (i.e., affirmative action in grad school admissions)

24. Attract more BIPOC PhD. students to present and conduct their research at BYU.

25. Reduce „cultural taxation burdens“ for BIPOC faculty at BYU. (This bizarre PC expression refers to BIPOC faculty feeling judged or culturally uncomfortable within the dominant BYU LDS culture). 

26. Promote more BIPOC faculty into senior administrative positions at BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in administration).

---

I think that some will be dancing in the streets over this, and others will be dismayed. Either way, this is big news. 

Does BYU get any federal funding?

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7 minutes ago, poptart said:

Does BYU get any federal funding?

I know Pell grants are possible or at least used to be as I got one.  I believe my friends have mention getting government grants for their research.  I know there is some funding BYU doesn’t seek out.

Edited by Calm
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8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I know Pell grants are possible or at least used to be as I got one.  I believe my friends have mention getting government grants for their research.  I know there is some funding BYU doesn’t seek out.

Huh, interesting.  I wonder if BYU was to refuse to do the things they mentioned if they'd risk getting federal funds yanked.  

BTW BYU is that competitive?  Does it help with admissions if you're an RM?  

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Acceptance is about 70% for freshman, 55% for transfers, but that does not include those who don’t even try.  Back when my kids were teens and I paid attention to such things, there were lots (the majority) who said they wanted to go, but couldn’t due to limited enrollment.

https://www.byu.edu/admissions

It’s cheap for what you get, has the image of being the place to go in the States if you want to marry in the Church, and parents see it as safer for their kids...less likely to run into safety or chastity issues when dating, less likely to run into drug/partying issues on the social side, more likely to stay active.

I don’t know about the RM question.

Edited by Calm
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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Acceptance is about 70% for freshman, 55% for transfers, but that does not include those who don’t even try.  Back when my kids were teens and I paid attention to such things, there were lots who said they wanted to go, but couldn’t due to limited enrollment.

https://www.byu.edu/admissions

I don't think it's currently at 70% for freshmen --- especially after this year. 70% seems **very** high, even before all of this.

I remember when our son was accepted, BYU didn't notify until April --- which was very late in the process. If you were serious about attending BYU, you had to put other schools on hold until very late in the process. And then the notifications were by email (mine in the 90s was a letter in December). The parent discussion board had a lot of anguish from parents about their children who didn't get in, even though they had a 36 on the ACT, were student body president, had a gazillion service hours, cured cancer junior year ( :) ) , etc. I think the priesthood leader and seminary teacher letters and the student essays carry a lot of weight. They get applications from a lot of accomplished students, and they've read zillions of essays, so your essays need to be really good and set you apart from the field. 

I don't think the essays will carry as much weight under the new "holistic" standards, depending on race. :( 

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I have never liked BYU. It was always on a pedestal for most members I knew. I encourage my kids to go somewhere else. 

 

Everything is getting ruined by all this crap. Most places and people are between a rock and a hard place. No good way out. They lose no matter what they do.

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21 minutes ago, rongo said:

don't think it's currently at 70% for freshmen --- especially after this year. 70% seems **very** high, even before all of this.

They may be counting qualified admissions, those who meet the standards.  Definitely does not include those who want to go, but don’t submit because of GPA.

My kids were never interested in going and since they got tuition benefits from my husband’s workplaces, we never really expected them to go....so my exposure to who wanted to go were my own teen years (70s) and then was from the sidelines, not paying much attention except to the rabid parents.

Edited by Calm
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35 minutes ago, Calm said:

They may be counting qualified admissions, those who meet the standards.  Definitely does not include those who want to go, but don’t submit because of GPA.

You reminded me of something. I still get email from BYU from my son's acceptance **three years ago**, even though he formally declined the admission. He, and we, still get emails that started when he was admitted (parent "toolkit," tips and to-do lists, etc.). It seems to be an inefficient system where the left hand doesn't always know what he right hand is doing. Maybe it's like how mission calls remain on membership records forever, even if the missionary never goes. Once a call is issued, the mission/country is always on the record, even for missionaries who don't go.

I think something like that might be in play with that 70% figure. From shear numbers alone (BYU's overall undergrad enrollment, # of incoming freshmen = 70% of how many applicants, etc.), 70% seems ridiculous. Especially to the zillions who are getting rejected right now. :) 

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16 minutes ago, rongo said:

He, and we, still get emails that started when he was admitted (parent "toolkit," tips and to-do lists, etc.). It seems to be an inefficient system where the left hand doesn't always know what he right hand is doing.

Just emails, or physical mailings too?  I've found institutions seek dollars, and they will rain down endless marketing material on any name/address combination after they get a whiff that it might be tied to a college age person.  Anyone with teenagers can attest to the increase in junk mail the instant a kid registers for selective service.  And a quarter of a century after graduating the UofU, I continue to get periodic mailings from their alumni association looking for $$.

Email is basically free.   Distribution lists require effort to maintain, with little incentive to do so.

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5 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Just emails, or physical mailings too?  I've found institutions seek dollars, and they will rain down endless marketing material on any name/address combination after they get a whiff that it might be tied to a college age person.  Anyone with teenagers can attest to the increase in junk mail the instant a kid registers for selective service.  And a quarter of a century after graduating the UofU, I continue to get periodic mailings from their alumni association looking for $$.

Email is basically free.   Distribution lists require effort to maintain, with little incentive to do so.

No, these are emails for accepted freshmen, and their parents. Still getting them from three years ago. Things like the "parents' toolkit," to-do lists, resources and deadlines, etc. Not the standard mass mailer junk mail. 

Yes, I get the pleas for money since graduating in 1999, but that's different. :) 

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2 hours ago, rongo said:

I really enjoyed my years at BYU (1993-1999), but to me, it isn't the same school now as the one I attended then. Although my oldest was accepted, he turned down the half-tuition offered for a full-ride somewhere else. I still follow and root for BYU in sports, but our other children aren't even considering attending BYU. In our circle of friends and acquaintances, there has been a big uptick in rejections for admission or transfer at BYU. Rejections have always been there, as BYU is highly competitive, but I've never seen it to this extent. 5 out of 6 in my son's MTC district were rejected, as well as several others in his mission. Several of my daughter's friends at NAU who had applied for a transfer have also been turned down. My son's "girlfriend" (we don't allow steady dating in high school, but they would if they could) was really down when she got her rejection. 

I think part of it is probably a large group of students who deferred this Covid year, but are returning next year. It's probably harder than ever for Utahns to be accepted. I also think that another possible factor is this bombshell announcement from BYU:

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2021/2/26/22303466/official-committee-says-byu-must-root-out-racism-without-delay-provo-utah

There are clearly going to be affirmative action quotas designed to increase enrollment in targeted demographic groups, and this will lead to increases in rejections for other students who otherwise might have gotten in. Whether or not this has played a role yet in this year admissions, I don't know, but I wouldn't be surprised if it did --- even though it's not fully implemented yet.

The end of the article contains the 26 point action item list. Here is my summary/translation of them. I realize that some might take issue with my editorializing or paraphrasing (out of PC legalese gobblety-gook), but this is a discussion board :) 

BYU’s Committee on Race and Equity released a 63 page report explaining 26 action items that it says must be implemented „without delay“ to bring about „historic, transformative change“ to BYU Provo.

1. Create an Office of Diversity.

2. Create a new position of Vice President of Diversity.

3. Give these new positions authority and „teeth.“

4. Develop and implement training programs on diversity, equity, and racism for administrators, faculty and staff, and students.

5. Change the curriculum for general education, religion, and elective classes to educate about racism and diversity.

6. Update the current „Aims of a BYU Education“ to reflect these changes.

7. Promote and implement „Fostering an Enriched Environment Policy“ (making BYU less racist) throughout the university.

8. Instruct colleges and departments to change mission statements to reflect these changes.

9. Establish a permanent committee to advance equity for BIPOC (black, indigenous, and people of color) faculty and students.

10. Create „strategic initiatives for recruitment, admission, scholarships, financial aid, retention, and success“ for BIPOC students (i.e., quotas -- numbers have to go up, no matter what).

11. „Form a Recruitment, Admissions, and Student Success Committee“ to implement #10.

12. Develop a strategic plan to increase graduation rates for BIPOC students.

13. Recruit and attract more BIPOC students to BYU.

14. Perform an independent evaluation of the admissions process – especially weighting – to make it more „holistic“ and enable more BIPOC students to qualify for admissions (i.e., lower standards, at least for affirmative action students).

15. Have the legal department/BYU Counsel „evaluate the legal parameters of a race-conscious admissions model for BYU“ (i.e., make sure we don't run afoul of affirmative action laws, reverse-discrimination, etc.)

16. Endow a Jane Manning James and Elijah Able scholarship for BIPOC students.

17. Create other scholarships for BIPOC students.

18. Create a more robust process for students to report incidents of racism at BYU.

19. Have a more „holistic“ standard for BIPOC students for prestigious scholarships (i.e., put the thumb on the scale for BIPOC students, but not for whites and Asians).

20. Establish a visible, permanent „safe space“ on campus for „underrepresented groups.“

21. Ensure that the honor code is applied with „cultural competence and sensitivity.“ (i.e., avoid being accused of racism if a BIPOC student runs afoul of the honor code. In practice, this means a different standard for them than for white or Asian students). 

22. Recruit, attract, and retain more BIPOC faculty to BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in hiring)

23. Assist and incentivize BIPOC students who want to pursue graduate school. (i.e., affirmative action in grad school admissions)

24. Attract more BIPOC PhD. students to present and conduct their research at BYU.

25. Reduce „cultural taxation burdens“ for BIPOC faculty at BYU. (This bizarre PC expression refers to BIPOC faculty feeling judged or culturally uncomfortable within the dominant BYU LDS culture). 

26. Promote more BIPOC faculty into senior administrative positions at BYU. (i.e., affirmative action in administration).

---

I think that some will be dancing in the streets over this, and others will be dismayed. Either way, this is big news. 

I don't think I've ever heard change in the Church described as "transformative", which carries a connotation of overhauling, quick and revolutionary. Though some of these were qualified as requiring some consideration and time to implement.

In any case, if more students from around the world can now be more intentionally accepted -- both matriculated and socially -- all the better!

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

Does it help with admissions if you're an RM? 

It used to. Probably not so much now.

I applied to BYU during the last few months of my mission (1974), and I had my acceptance letter before I returned home. In all honesty, I did not deserve it. I had been a poor student in high school, out of laziness, and due to my father's employment I was in three different countries during those high school years. The only thing I had going for me was a high percentile GED test and good ACT test scores. And my mission. And I ran out of funds in the middle of my first semester, and had to withdraw -- enlisted in the Army. Which is what I should have done in the first place instead of attempting BYU. 

Oh, well.

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1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Is it big news?  This doesn't seem that surprising or sensational to me.  I think it's good news, but I'm not sure why it's big news.  Can you elaborate?

Sure. 

BYU itself couches it in terms of "transformative" and "historic." I guess you think that BYU isn't sincere in this, that BYU is just throwing out press release boilerplate buzzwords?

I think it's significant that BYU is toeing the line with the "diversity training," "systemic racism" movement. I also think that the admitted intentions of instituting a) admissions and hiring quotas based on race, and  b) lowered standards for "BIPOC" populations are extremely "surprising" and "sensational" --- especially for BYU (and by extension, the Church). 

Before the inevitable CFRs on my opinion about lowered standards are issued, look at the actual wording of, say, #14:

"Perform an independent validation study on all current admissions policies, particularly the weighting systems, to evaluate whether they have a disparate impact on BIPOC applicants. Ensure that the admissions process is holistic in its application and reflects the values promoted in BYU’s Fostering an Enriched Environment Policy."  

which I rendered:

"Perform an independent evaluation of the admissions process – especially weighting – to make it more „holistic“ and enable more BIPOC students to qualify for admissions (i.e., lower standards, at least for affirmative action students)."

Or, #16 in the original

"Select prestigious scholarship recipients with greater emphasis on a holistic review of the entire applicant file, with criteria to include commitment to excellence, leadership potential, socioeconomic profile, adverse life circumstances, etc. We recommend a scrutiny of policies for determining scholarship criteria and their impact on BIPOC applicants." (My version: "Have a more „holistic“ standard for BIPOC students for prestigious scholarships (i.e., put the thumb on the scale for BIPOC students, but not for whites and Asians").

The prestigious scholarships are the full tuition, or the presidential ones --- formerly highly-competitive, but now weighted for "socioeconomic profile, adverse life circumstances, etc." to enable more BIPOC students to vie for them. 

Yes, I think these are very significant developments, but that's just me. 

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16 minutes ago, rongo said:

Yes, I think these are very significant developments, but that's just me. 

I suspect we will see an accompanying, whether incentivized or required, Self-Reliance-type component to the curriculum to more quickly transform the new mix of cultures into a new Zion-like culture.

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22 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Every time I see the word ' holistic ' used , I get visions of ' crystal gazing and woo woo feelings ' .  

I don't particularly like feeling woo woos.  Too messy.

Edited by mfbukowski
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If part of the intent is to get more foreign students into the Y, the rub is to get them to go back to their homes rather than getting a lucrative job in the States. Vine DeLoria frequently lamented this problem in his advocacy for college education among Native American students. Rather than return to the reservation they would go elsewhere. “How ya gonna keep’ em down on the farm after they’ve seen Paree?”

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1 hour ago, rongo said:

Sure. 

BYU itself couches it in terms of "transformative" and "historic." I guess you think that BYU isn't sincere in this, that BYU is just throwing out press release boilerplate buzzwords?

I think it's significant that BYU is toeing the line with the "diversity training," "systemic racism" movement. I also think that the admitted intentions of instituting a) admissions and hiring quotas based on race, and  b) lowered standards for "BIPOC" populations are extremely "surprising" and "sensational" --- especially for BYU (and by extension, the Church). 

Before the inevitable CFRs on my opinion about lowered standards are issued, look at the actual wording of, say, #14:

"Perform an independent validation study on all current admissions policies, particularly the weighting systems, to evaluate whether they have a disparate impact on BIPOC applicants. Ensure that the admissions process is holistic in its application and reflects the values promoted in BYU’s Fostering an Enriched Environment Policy."  

which I rendered:

"Perform an independent evaluation of the admissions process – especially weighting – to make it more „holistic“ and enable more BIPOC students to qualify for admissions (i.e., lower standards, at least for affirmative action students)."

Or, #16 in the original

"Select prestigious scholarship recipients with greater emphasis on a holistic review of the entire applicant file, with criteria to include commitment to excellence, leadership potential, socioeconomic profile, adverse life circumstances, etc. We recommend a scrutiny of policies for determining scholarship criteria and their impact on BIPOC applicants." (My version: "Have a more „holistic“ standard for BIPOC students for prestigious scholarships (i.e., put the thumb on the scale for BIPOC students, but not for whites and Asians").

The prestigious scholarships are the full tuition, or the presidential ones --- formerly highly-competitive, but now weighted for "socioeconomic profile, adverse life circumstances, etc." to enable more BIPOC students to vie for them. 

Yes, I think these are very significant developments, but that's just me. 

Thanks for clarifying. 

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52 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

If part of the intent is to get more foreign students into the Y, the rub is to get them to go back to their homes rather than getting a lucrative job in the States. Vine DeLoria frequently lamented this problem in his advocacy for college education among Native American students. Rather than return to the reservation they would go elsewhere. “How ya gonna keep’ em down on the farm after they’ve seen Paree?”

I don’t think the reservations are the equivalent of most foreign nations. Most degrees are not going to get you a job at all on a reservation.

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5 hours ago, Stargazer said:

It used to. Probably not so much now.

I applied to BYU during the last few months of my mission (1974), and I had my acceptance letter before I returned home. In all honesty, I did not deserve it. I had been a poor student in high school, out of laziness, and due to my father's employment I was in three different countries during those high school years. The only thing I had going for me was a high percentile GED test and good ACT test scores. And my mission. And I ran out of funds in the middle of my first semester, and had to withdraw -- enlisted in the Army. Which is what I should have done in the first place instead of attempting BYU. 

Oh, well.

It's amazing, besides myself so many people I knew had to work their way through in life, they never even had the opportunity to be lazy.  Those who did usually turned to drugs and disappeared, know one who killed himself years ago.

I dunno, I look at how competitive things are now and wonder.  Everyone is fighting over an ever shrinking pie, I get the feeling that in 5-10 years so many people are going to either be jobless or underemployed/underpaid while things are even more expensive than they are now.  I remember how it was for me during the last recession, I totally got the shaft while the fortunate ones with families had the I got mine attitude.  Going to be interesting, so many now have families, mortgages and no longer have parents there to protect them from the things life throws at you.  Reading what I just did on BYU is a bit of an eye opener for me.  I think in the end people are going to have to accept their children/grand children just aren't going to have it as good as they did, it is what it is.

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