Where are the Lost Ten Tribes?

[gav]

7 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

To me, this Ten Tribes theory is a religious conspiracy theory from millennia ago...still continues today. 

Is this what we call the old testament nowadays?

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

Do you think Joseph Smith had that in mind while dictating it (or, in reading it after)? I don't think he had a solid grounding on the cohenim priesthood, even from Joshua Seixas. I think he had English at his command to express your thought, rather than in terms of Mormon bishoprics.  

Joseph was speaking on behalf of God in those revelations, and likely did not understand the context or full implications of his words.  In fact Joseph's life is shot through with amazing parallels with Jewish tradition, most of which are unknown to the average LDS member.  As to this particular issue, the LDS Church website says:

Quote

Although the Aaronic Priesthood is conferred in the Church today without restriction to the lineage of Aaron, the keys of this priesthood rightly belong to the firstborn of the seed of Aaron, and in the restoration of all things the office of bishop (president of the priests) will once again be conferred on one of that lineage, as it is designated by revelation to the president of the Church (D&C 84:14–21; 107:13–17).  https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bd/aaronic-priesthood?lang=eng

 

[rongo]

29 minutes ago, InCognitus said:

I'm having a hard time distinguishing the difference between these two choices:   "They are scattered among the peoples of the earth, and are being gathered by missionary work and patriarchal blessings.", and "I believe they are separated from us, but still on the earth, and are being/will be gathered."

Can you explain the difference?

Poorly worded on my part. The second one (#4) should read "separated from us in one body"  (that is, not simply scattered among us). 

Hope that helps!

[CA Steve]

I voted for #5 as it is really the only one that makes sense with what we know about world populations. 

As a side note, and assuming the correct response is#1, if one accepts the diffusionist theories given for the failure to find Middle Eastern DNA in native Americans, which would have occurred in a much shorter time frame than what we are looking at for the lost tribes, then one would have to assume the lost tribes DNA is also no longer detectable, would they not, and therefore not gatherable?

[Amulek]

I thought the LOST tribes were stranded on an undetectable, electromagnetically charged island filled with malevolent polar bears, smoke monsters, and "Others." 

I'm sure they have their hands full with all of that and will show up whenever they are able.  

 

[Fair Dinkum]

2 hours ago, AtlanticMike said:

My mom believes they left on the city of Enoch, which was transported somewhere else, I dont know where. But she thinks they'll return and the city of Enoch will land in the gulf of Mexico. I kid you not🤣

Another myth completely unsupported by evidence

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Another myth completely unsupported by evidence

What sort of evidence were you looking for?

This is all an issue of faith.

[Fair Dinkum]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

What sort of evidence were you looking for?

This is all an issue of faith.

For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope."-- Thomas Edison

[Fether]

I votes “polar ice caps” because I think it is funny and I figured someone needed to vote.

Where does that come from?

[JLHPROF]

15 minutes ago, Fether said:

I votes “polar ice caps” because I think it is funny and I figured someone needed to vote.

Where does that come from?

A recollection of Benjamin Johnson. 
https://www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_believe_that_the_lost_Ten_Tribes_were_living_under_the_polar_ice_cap%3F

His "recollections" have led to a lot of interesting gospel folklore.  And his descendants have a colorful fundamentalist history.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_F._Johnson

[rongo]

32 minutes ago, Fether said:

I votes “polar ice caps” because I think it is funny and I figured someone needed to vote.

Where does that come from?

I think it also comes from the multiple statements about the return from the north, or lands of the north. And, D&C 133 talks of the "ice flowing down from their presence" when they return from "the north countries."

Edited January 29, 2021 by rongo

[strappinglad]

5 hours ago, rongo said:

"ice flowing down from their presence"

As I own 5 vehicles, I feel I am doing my part to increase global warming and hence bring about the fulfillment of this prophecy . 😉

I have told this before, but my uncle was of jewish lineage and his PB indicated that he was of the Aaron lineage .He never served as a bishop but his son did( with counselors ) . 

[Rain]

I used to think 4, but I'm at 1 now.  Getting to know about refugees got me there.

[JustAnAustralian]

polar ice caps? Are Santa's elves actually Israelites?

Although if they're under the ice cap maybe it's a stargate system, which would also allow for the another world option.

[Rajah Manchou]

14 hours ago, gav said:

I live in the Africa South East area and Judah is coming out in spades in patriarchal blessings of black africans. This is backed up in some cases by genetic studies 

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/zimbabwe-s-quot-black-jews-quot-the-lemba-people

Apologies for bringing this up so often over the past few years, I just find it so fascinating and curious. The Lemba Jews are genetically similar to the native inhabitants of the nearby Comoros Islands, suggesting they both came from across the sea with the migrants that first populated the islands:

Interestingly, there are a number of similarities between the genetic profile of the Comoros islanders and the Lemba of South Africa, a Bantu speaking people whose Semitic origins are evident at both the cultural and genetic level. The Lemba have high frequencies of the Middle Eastern Y-chromosome HgJ-12f2a (25%), a potentially SEA Y, Hg-K(xPQR) (32%) and a Bantu Y, E-PN1 (30%) (similar to E-M2), raising the possibility that the Lemba and Comorian populations are consequences of similar demographic processes. The high-resolution genotyping of the Lemba Y chromosomes and mitochondria will elucidate this question. (source)

I believe the Comoros Islands, with the capital of Moroni, were named by those in Hagoth's ships, and their descendants are the Comorian and Lemba Jews. The native homeland of the Comorians was a peninsula that, during Book of Mormon times, was called Komara.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Rajah Manchou

[AtlanticMike]

13 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Another myth completely unsupported by evidence

Yes, quite possibly, but it's fun to think of a big chunk of earth dropping from the sky and dispersing all the water in the gulf. 

[teddyaware]

16 hours ago, Fair Dinkum said:

For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope."-- Thomas Edison

Since it’s a well established LDS belief, testified to several times in the scriptures, that Enoch and his people were taken off the earth and transported bodily to a holier sphere (a far fetched idea that a logical, science based human mind would reject out of hand as utterly implausible and ridiculous), all bets are off when it comes to the present whereabouts and miraculous return of the lost tribes of Israel. 

Edited January 29, 2021 by teddyaware

[Mark Beesley]

The people of the City of Enoch were translated and removed from Earth due to their exceeding righteousness.  (They were Christian socialists.)  The lost tribes of Israel were defeated and scattered by the Assyrians because of their exceeding wickedness.  In what realm of thought do these wicked tribes enjoy anything approaching the blessings of Enoch? This is an area of mystery that is ripe for speculation and short on common sense.

[rongo]

2 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

The people of the City of Enoch were translated and removed from Earth due to their exceeding righteousness.  (They were Christian socialists.)  The lost tribes of Israel were defeated and scattered by the Assyrians because of their exceeding wickedness.  In what realm of thought do these wicked tribes enjoy anything approaching the blessings of Enoch? This is an area of mystery that is ripe for speculation and short on common sense.

I don't think anyone who believes they are on another world believes that they were translated, as the people of Enoch were. They have their own prophets and scriptures, though (which is another point against the "scattered among the known peoples" view, I think), and their own history over the last 2800-ish years, so I wouldn't rule out people and periods of great righteousness, either, a la 4 Nephi or Enoch. 

The statements in favor of "removal from the earth" come from compelling witnesses, but one of the things that holds me back is just Occam's Razor (I know, I know --- for the skeptics. I don't lack so much self-awareness that I don't see the irony of a believer in the lost tribes discussing these theories pulling out the law of parsimony.  ). All things equal, and God's ways not being man's ways, why remove them from the earth when He could just hide them, take them to another country, etc.? 

[Mark Beesley]

The blessing of the City of Enoch was not simply being translated. The greatest blessing was being removed from the Earth with its selfishness and violence. A separation of the ten tribes to enjoy that as well, whether translated or not, would be a tremendous blessing to a wicked nation. 
 

I have a very difficult time conceptualizing why the Lord would treat these ten tribes in a way that kept them cohesive and faithful while the rest of us are left to deal with mortality in a normal way. And as I have come to understand the eternal nature of the principle of adoption (how else do we all claim sireship from a single Father in Heaven?) it becomes less important to see them as a cohesive body.

[rongo]

11 minutes ago, Mark Beesley said:

The blessing of the City of Enoch was not simply being translated. The greatest blessing was being removed from the Earth with its selfishness and violence. A separation of the ten tribes to enjoy that as well, whether translated or not, would be a tremendous blessing to a wicked nation. 
 

I have a very difficult time conceptualizing why the Lord would treat these ten tribes in a way that kept them cohesive and faithful while the rest of us are left to deal with mortality in a normal way. And as I have come to understand the eternal nature of the principle of adoption (how else do we all claim sireship from a single Father in Heaven?) it becomes less important to see them as a cohesive body.

What do we do, then, with D&C 133? 

---

26 And they who are in the north countries shall come in remembrance before the Lord; and their prophets shall hear his voice, and shall no longer stay themselves; and they shall smite the rocks, and the ice shall flow down at their presence.

27 And an highway shall be cast up in the midst of the great deep.

28 Their enemies shall become a prey unto them,

29 And in the barren deserts there shall come forth pools of living water; and the parched ground shall no longer be a thirsty land.

30 And they shall bring forth their rich treasures unto the children of Ephraim, my servants.

31 And the boundaries of the everlasting hills shall tremble at their presence.

32 And there shall they fall down and be crowned with glory, even in Zion, by the hands of the servants of the Lord, even the children of Ephraim.

33 And they shall be filled with songs of everlasting joy.

34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.

---

I have a hard time seeing figurative or allegorical scattering among the peoples of the earth here, even trying to as a devil's advocate. This seems to denote that they are separate as a body, wherever they are, not simply being found through missionary work and adoption. 

[Mark Beesley]

29 minutes ago, rongo said:

What do we do, then, with D&C 133?

We ponder it and wait for the Lord to give us further light and knowledge. And when He does, it just seems so obvious. It is well to remember that the Lord will blind us to truths we are not yet ready for.

[Fair Dinkum]

2 hours ago, teddyaware said:

Since it’s a well established LDS belief, testified to several times in the scriptures, that Enoch and his people were taken off the earth and transported bodily to holier sphere (a far fetched idea that a logical, science based human mind would reject out of hand as utterly implausible and ridiculous), all bets are off when it comes to the present whereabouts and miraculous return of the lost tribes of Israel. 

Scriptures are full of fanciful claims of universal floods, giants, a man living inside a fish, talking donkeys, the entire human family descending from 2 people 6,000 years ago, lost tribes and yes even of an entire city being lifted into heaven.  While we can certainly find important lessons from these stories, it stretches incredulity to take these fictional stories literally. Just my take

[bluebell]

22 hours ago, rongo said:

Yes, there are people from all tribes, but nowhere near numbers that would fulfill D&C 133 in my view. 

Ephraim and Manasseh (the overwhelming --- very overwhelming --- bulk of the Church) was and is being found through missionary work and patriarchal blessings, as per Genesis 49 and Deuteronomy 33. I'm talking more about Reuben, Gad, Asher, Dan, Naphtali, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Benjamin, Issachar, and Zebulun. I think most assume that modern Jews would all be from Judah, or that modern cohenim would all be Levi, but I don't think this is necessarily the case with patriarchal blessings (which are not literal descent. My g-g-g-grandfather received his blessing from Hyrum Smith, and he was from Zebulun, but all of his descendants are Ephraim). 

D&C 133 makes it a dramatic return for them, and there are other statements that they have their own prophets and scriptures. How does that work if they are just scattered among us. 

Also --- Canada is close enough to a polar ice cap!  

The way that genetics work, the bold doesn't prove that it's not literal descent.  Siblings often have very different genetic makeups because of the way genes are inherited from each parent (which is 50/50 of course but not in the way we think of it).

[Glenn101]

11 minutes ago, Fair Dinkum said:

Scriptures are full of fanciful claims of universal floods, giants, a man living inside a fish, talking donkeys, the entire human family descending from 2 people 6,000 years ago, lost tribes and yes even of an entire city being lifted into heaven.  While we can certainly find important lessons from these stories, it stretches incredulity to take these fictional stories literally. Just my take

When faith is gone, you are correct. Seems as though there are quite the few here who still have faith in miracles, the restoration, etc. There are still questions among those about the how and why of things, but for that we must await more light and knowledge.