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gav

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Everything posted by gav

  1. gav

    Hell

    One can't that is what happens with false doctrine...
  2. The latter-day gathering and restoration of all Israel, not just the Jews, is a very common theme of old testament prophesy.
  3. Perhaps it's the men that need the experience and growth more. Perhaps that is precisely why it is not given to women to run wards and stakes, many could in some ways be far more efficient. It seems the Lord is prepared to put up with inefficiencies as he grows capacity and character in individuals and to those to whom much is give much will be required.
  4. Sometimes one of the trials in life is not getting what we know we are very capable of. There are certain callings I know I would ace but have yet never been called too. Part of the test here is that as we reach our years of experience and maturity is to see if we are able step aside and sustain the rookie new leaders as they learn and struggle. The Lord in his wisdom struck down the non-levite man that steadied the ark even though in his(the man's) mind he thought the ark would fall and be damaged and his steadying it would be a good thing. Life will challenges us in many ways and in the ways most suited to the refinement of our specific individual eternal souls.
  5. Once we have been baptised and confirmed we don't repeat these ordinances for ourselves. In weekly partaking of the sacrament we renew them even though nobody gets wet and has hands laid on them. Essentially we are re-baptised and re-confirmed every week if we partake of the sacrament worthily. The Lord has condoned at many times relaxation of certain requirements for sacred things to be confined only to sacred spaces when situation and proximity do not allow. Think mountains, baptisms for the dead in rivers prior to temple construction, endowments prior to temple construction or completion. Temples are far more common now and we need to be in them as often as possible. With such blessing well within our reach it makes sense that certain uses are more restricted than they were in Josephs time. Right now we can partake of the sacrament at home because circumstances necessitate it, once circumstances change things will again revert back to the more restricted norm regarding the sacrament.
  6. Is this what we call the old testament nowadays?
  7. Less, I see as a compliment. Those who receive less have more that the Spirit can tutor directly on. I may also be similar to the Saviours parables, protecting the weaker hearers but providing sufficient for the diligent to work with.
  8. My entire family is Ephraim except my one son is declared Manassa. Go figure... (before you go there, he looks remarkably like me ) Non-josephite tribes seem to be very prevalent in Russia and the other eastern block countries with all the other tribes represented... that would explain the iron curtain while Ephraim and Manassa were gathered. I live in the Africa South East area and Judah is coming out in spades in patriarchal blessings of black africans. This is backed up in some cases by genetic studies https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/zimbabwe-s-quot-black-jews-quot-the-lemba-people https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8900243/ This may also be an interesting side note to the blacks and the priesthood discussion since Judah was first but in the last days would be last.
  9. Or it was just for increased emphasis on the most important parts...
  10. The ascendancy of post modernism an its illegitimate woke abomination comes to mind.
  11. Agreed... there are practical aspects to consider as well. Presidencies containing both sexes? how will small presidency meetings go down? etc. It's bad enough that when a man teaches primary these days it must be done with the door open and more than a certain number of students. This would really complicate propriety issues.
  12. Yup, pride, praise, power and ultimately glory... His path to all of these was to devise a new plan, which suspended agency, which would make him smarter than all gods before him and smarter than his own Father in Heaven, consequently he deserved all the glory and the "balance of power in the eternities" as you put it. How calculated his risk was due to being blinded by pride and greed I don't know. If I look at people around me that are blinded by pride... they do pretty stupid things.
  13. I agree with the first sentence, not so sure about the second... I think all we got was a vail of forgetfulness that rendered our mortal minds innocent, not a clean slate. The spirit quickly asserts itself again as we mature. I think hindsight will be 20-20 and none of these horrors will compare to the growth we have undergone through them. A diamond loses much of its weight, that is cut off or ground away in the shaping process. Abrasives further wear away and polish it. Decent amounts of water need to be used to keep the diamond cool in this process, since it is carbon it could catch alight. The end product is rather more desirable and brings out the best the stone has to offer, a real sight to behold. God is making up his jewels and refining to high levels of purity in the refiners fire.
  14. It is not called "enduring to the end" for nothing. So it is likely that as we become more refined the abrasives need to do a more painful number on our harder spots and lumps. It's a good sign, if the road gets steeper, it often does the closer we get to the top!
  15. We know one of the adversaries prime tools in this life is fear. Fear destroys faith because the two cannot exist together. We know another of his tactics is appealing to our greed for power. It is possible that he promised many prominence and power once he had taken all glory unto himself... For he was so smart in devising a plan that could save all, like no other had before him, that in his mind he deserved all the Glory. So convinced he was of this that he convinced others and led them in open rebellion against great light. Because to become a SOP one must rebel against great light.
  16. We agreed to the plan which included birth and death and everything in between. The fact that we have the blessings of the gospel, the priesthood etc. indicate that was more likely our early choice, we then fought proactively in the war, some fence sitters eventually joined our side but they would likely have rather different experiences in their mortal probation as a result. We chose to be born via natural processes into physical bodies that would be ours to learn and grow in throughout a temporary mortal probation. This was a given by accepting the plan. This was when we made our choice. Adam and Eve were different, they were the "openers of the way" not born into physical bodies but inserted into previously prepared bodies. These bodies were not born of parents already possessing a spirit. The insertion of Adam and Eve's immortal spirit into these physical bodies rendered these bodies immortal, for it would not be just to change them from an immortal state to a mortal state in one single step. The catch 22 that Adam and Eve must have agreed to be placed into(as Christ had volunteered to be the Saviour) enabled the fall from immortality and the presence of God. This catch 22 involved complete opposites. Eat, introduce mortality and the ability to reproduce. Abstain, live forever and have no offspring. They had already been commanded to multiply and replenish the earth. There was no way they could obey all these commandments without being in transgression of at least one of the others. Once they fell, by choosing to eat, they became mortal and then able to reproduce bodies that would house all the rest of us. These bodies we had chosen for ourselves in the pre-existence when accepting the plan. We would then be able to proceed directly to a fallen state via inheritance and we had agreed to this inheritance. To Summarise. Adam and Eve had nothing to inherit but immortality and remaining in the presence of God. It was not JUST to deny them what was already theirs. Therefore a method was available to make it an act of choice, in a new state, where they remembered nothing; and bring about further alterations to that state by their choices. We could then, by choosing to be born as their children, inherit their new state. We are still free from some aspects of the fall until we reach the age of accountability and our faculties have sufficiently developed. In effect we are born naked and unashamed, have our own little Eden until the age of eight and then begin to exercise our own free wills. Soon thereafter our ability to reproduce begins to develop and eventually we age and die. Not so different from Adam and Eve after all, but an automatic consequence, through inheritance, after they opened the way.
  17. And potentially those who chose not this second estate could not develop such a level of trust... Consumed by fear of the unknown and a potentially horrifying future with no certainties they were prepared to go to war over it.
  18. You have a valid point and it makes a little more sense to me if I try to look at it slightly differently... mortality is meant to be tough and challenging with each individuals circumstances heavily influenced by our first estate. I suspect that of the many billions of things that could happen to us in our mortal probation the Lord has selected for us to have the experiences that will bring about the most progression for each one of us individually. Tough as it may seem to us here and now we seem to be getting what we need to progress the most eternally. Sometimes the life of seeming ease can be more challenging to a person to maintain faithfulness and diligence than a life of hardship. The Nephites over and over again found it most difficult to maintain faithfulness when times were good. At the end of it all I am confident we will see that the conditions we experienced in life were perfectly engineered to bring out the best in us, if we would have it. We will all bow the knee and our tongues will confess in hindsight that the Lord did the very best for each and everyone of us, excruciatingly tough though some lives may appear now.
  19. Agreed. Another way to eliminate agency is to have immediate consequences. Agency is more fully exercised when there is a delay between the choice and its consequence. Hence the need for the creation of a space where time operates. In our Fathers direct presence it would be harder to be disobedient, a feat it seems only "sons of perdition" are capable of. For the rest of us to truly show our true colours we would have to be placed in an environment fallen from Gods direct presence and where time existed so that there could be a delay between many of our choices and their direct consequences. Because time is the thing that prevents everything happening at once.
  20. Death, gravity etc. we also chose in the pre existence by accepting the plan which included death and becoming subject to the natural laws of a fallen world. At the time some of us even shouted for joy at the prospect of these new experiences and growth. Or Father in Heaven always perfectly honours our agency. The fall of Adam and Eve was the only way to concentually introduce them and their offspring(us) to these conditions consequent to a fallen world.
  21. Covid has me not at my sharpest at the moment...
  22. I love it! no more opposition in all things...
  23. This below... it was a possible and hypothetical example among many... you seem to getting way too far into the weeds when it was only a broad outline of a hypothetical scenario.
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