The New WoW Question

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Mystery Meat said:

The Church recently clarified to include Green Tea as well.

Yep

 I wonder how many members decided to drink it and now have to quit.?

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

From “True to the Faith,” a reference source published by the Church, in the entry on “Word of Wisdom”:

In the Word of Wisdom, the Lord commands us not to take the following substances into our bodies:
    Alcoholic drinks (see D&C 89:5–7).

    Tobacco (see D&C 89:8).

    Tea and coffee (see D&C 89:9; latter-day prophets have taught that the term “hot drinks” refers to tea and coffee).

Anything harmful that people purposefully take into their bodies is not in harmony with the Word of Wisdom. This is especially true of illegal drugs, which can destroy those who become addicted to them. Stay entirely away from them. Do not experiment with them. The abuse of prescription drugs also leads to destructive addiction.

 

Actually, the lord isn't commanding.  The text of the revelation states in verse two:

Quote

2 To be sent greeting; not by commandment or constraint, but by revelation and the a word of wisdom, showing forth the order and will of God in the temporal salvation of all saints in the last days

It seems to me the men have created a policy and have raised it to the level that it overrides the original revelation. IMO that is a dangerous thing to do.  That's how we got the racist priesthood policy that we had to live with for 150 years.

[sunstoned]

5 hours ago, JAHS said:

Yes green tea should be avoided too. The idea is to not take anything into our bodies that would be harmful or addictive. 

There are proven health benefits of green tea.  There is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it.  

[Calm]

8 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Actually, the lord isn't commanding.  The text of the revelation states in verse two:

It seems to me the men have created a policy and have raised it to the level that it overrides the original revelation. IMO that is a dangerous thing to do.  That's how we got the racist priesthood policy that we had to live with for 150 years.

However, it is not like changes to past revelations were always only done through canonized revelations before. Chances are most changes were spread word of mouth long before such were written down and presented to the Church as a whole in NT times for example. 

Got to wonder how much stuff was written down in Old Testament times as it was taught from the prophet.

And plural marriage was undertaken as a change in commandment in the modern church a number of years before the revelation was written down and then present to the Church as a whole. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

18 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

There are proven health benefits of green tea.  There is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it.  

Except for some of these?

Quote

1. Stomach Problems

Green tea may cause stomach irritation when brewed too strongly or consumed on an empty stomach (1). Green tea contains tannins that can increase the amount of acid in your stomach. Excess acid can lead to digestive issues including constipation, acid reflux, and nausea. Brewing green tea with water that is too hot can exacerbate these side effects. Brew your green tea with water between 160 and 180 F.

Green tea can also cause diarrhea when consumed in large amounts. Caffeine produces a laxative effect as it stimulates the colon muscles to contract and release more frequently. This results in more frequent trips to the bathroom and can cause upset stomach. If you suffer from irritable bowel syndrome, avoid green tea.

To avoid these side effects, do not drink green tea on an empty stomach. Instead, consume green tea after each meal. If you suffer from acid reflux disease, stomach ulcers, avoid green tea since it can increase acidity.

2. Headaches

Green tea can cause headaches in certain individuals since it contains caffeine (2). People who suffer from migraines can consume green tea occasionally. However, you should avoid drinking green tea every day if you suffer from daily headaches. If you have caffeine sensitivity, avoid drinking green tea.

3. Problems Sleeping

Green tea contains a compound that is antithetical to sleep: caffeine. Green tea contains only small amounts of caffeine, but may still cause problems sleeping for people sensitive to caffeine. This is due to the fact that chemical compounds in green tea prevent the release of hormones such as melatonin, which aid in sleep.

Green tea also contains l-theanine, a chemical that helps to induce calm, but also increases alertness and focus—something that may disrupt sleep for some individuals. Some research shows that l-theanine is beneficial for sleep; however, these studies have mainly been conducted on individuals with disorders including ADHD and schizophrenia (3)(4). Additional research shows that l-theanine may aid sleep by lowering heart rate through the inhibition of glutamate receptors in the brain (5).

These benefits may be outweighed by the presence of caffeine in green tea—particularly in matcha green tea. While research shows l-theanine is beneficial for sleep, there is no agreed upon dosage for it's effectiveness in the medical community. While most people may benefit from a cup of green tea before bed, people with caffeine sensitivity should consume it no later than 5 hours before bed.

4. Anemia and Iron Deficiency

Green tea contains antioxidants that hinder the iron absorption in the human body. A meta-analysis showed that this side effect can be a particularly dangerous for people who suffer from anemia or other disease where iron deficiency is present (6). One case study found that green tea caused anemia in a 48 year old businessman who consumed 1500 milliliters (6 cups) of green tea every weekday for years (7). To avoid this side effect, add lemon to your tea. The vitamin C in lemon promotes iron absorption, counteracting this side effect. Alternatively, you can consume gren tea one hour before or after a meal. This gives your body time to absorb iron without the inhibition caused by tannins. As a precaution, avoid green tea if you have anemia.

5. Vomiting

Excessive amounts of green tea can lead to nausea and vomiting. That's because green tea contains tannins that have been linked to nausea and constipation because of the way proteins bind in the intestines (8). Avoid consuming more than 4 cups of green tea each day if you are a seasoned tea drinker. If you're just starting out with green tea, start with 1 or 2 cups per day and monitor your reaction. Only increase consumption if you experience no side effects.

6. Dizziness and Convulsions

The caffeine in green tea can cause you to feel dizzy or lightheaded when consumed in large amounts. Caffeine decreases blood flow to the brain and central nervous system, resulting in motion sickness. In rare cases, consumption of green tea can lead to convulsions or confusion (9). In some cases, green tea consumption can also increase tinnitus, known as ringing in the ears. If you suffer from tinnitus, avoid drinking green tea. Always drink green tea in moderate amounts and avoid if you are sensitive to caffeine. Research shows that the maximum tolerated dose in humans is equivalent to 24 cups of the beverage (10). As mentioned, most of these side effects are rare and occur only when consumed in excessive amounts or in individuals senstiive togreen tea ingredients.

7. Bleeding Disorders

In rare cases, green tea can trigger bleeding disorders (11). Compounds in green tea decrease levels of fibrinogen, a protein that helps clot blood. Green tea also prevents the oxidation of fatty acids, which can lead to thinner blood consistency. If you suffer from a blood clotting disorder, avoid drinking green tea.

8. Liver Disease

Green tea supplements and high consumption of green tea can lead to liver damage and disease (12). Experts believe this is due to a build-up of caffeine that can stress the liver. To avoid this side effect, avoid consuming more than 4 to 5 cups of green tea every day.

9. Irregular Heartbeat and Blood Pressure

Green tea intake can increase high blood pressure, making it a dangerous beverage if you suffer from heart disease. This side effect is rare and more research is needed to examine the exact compounds behind the blood pressure increase. While research shows that drinking tea can help lower blood pressure, some studies have shown that green tea actually elevates blood pressure. One study found that green tea raised blood pressure more than caffeine alone (13). Another study found that drinkin ggreen tea may interefere with certain blood pressure medications including Corgard (14). If you suffer from heart disease, seek medical advice from your healthcare professional before consuming green tea.

10. Bone Health

Excess consumption of green tea increases the risk of bone disease such as osteoporosis in sensitive individuals. Compounds in green tea inhibit the absorption of calcium, resulting in a deterioration of bone health (15). Limit your intake to 2 to 3 cups of green tea if you are predisposed to bone disease. If you consume more than that, make sure to take a calcium supplement to support bone health.

11. Risks for Pregnancy and Child Use

Tannins, caffeine, and tea catechins have all been linked to increased risks during pregnancy. Experts say that green tea in small amounts — no more than 2 cups per day — is safe during pregnancy and breastfeeding. Caffeine is passed through breast milk to infants so monitor your intake in coordination with your physician. Drinking more than 2 cups per day can lead to miscarriage and birth defects in children. Make sure to keep your caffeine intake below 200 milligrams per day.

 

[sunstoned]

12 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Except for some of these?

 

That is an interesting blog that you are quoting from.  Here is my list https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/269538.php

And here is some additional information from WebMD.  https://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/health-benefits-of-green-tea#1

 

Quote

Green tea is so good for you that it's even got some researchers raving."It's the healthiest thing I can think of to drink," says Christopher Ochner, PhD. He's a research scientist in nutrition at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai Hospital.

 

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 minute ago, sunstoned said:

That is an interesting blog that you are quoting from.

Did you actually look at the references?

Quote

And here is some additional information from WebMD.

Did you click on the 'Side Effects' tab on WebMd?

Quote

"Tired blood" (anemia): Drinking green tea may make anemia worse.

Anxiety disorders: The caffeine in green tea might make anxiety worse.

Bleeding disorders: Caffeine in green tea might increase the risk of bleeding. Don't drink green tea if you have a bleeding disorder.

Heart conditions: Caffeine in green tea might cause irregular heartbeat.

Diabetes: Caffeine in green tea might affect blood sugar control. If you drink green tea and have diabetes, monitor your blood sugar carefully.

Diarrhea: Green tea contains caffeine. The caffeine in green tea, especially when taken in large amounts, can worsen diarrhea.

Glaucoma: Drinking green tea increases pressure inside the eye. The increase occurs within 30 minutes and lasts for at least 90 minutes.

High blood pressure: The caffeine in green tea might increase blood pressure in people with high blood pressure. However, this effect might be less in people who consume caffeine from green tea or other sources regularly.

Irritable bowel syndrome (IBS): Green tea contains caffeine. The caffeine in green tea, especially when taken in large amounts, might worsen the diarrhea some people have with IBS.

Liver disease: Green tea extract supplements have been linked to rare cases of liver damage. Green tea extracts might make liver disease worse. Talk to your doctor before taking a green tea extract. Tell your doctor if you have signs of liver damage such as yellowing skin, dark urine, or abdominal pain. Keep in mind that drinking green tea as a beverage is normal amounts is still probably safe.

Weak bones (osteoporosis): Drinking green tea can increase the amount of calcium that is flushed out in the urine. This might weaken bones. If you have osteoporosis, don't drink more than 6 cups of green tea per day. Taking calcium supplements may help make up for calcium that is lost. If you are generally healthy and getting enough calcium from your food or supplements, taking up to 400 mg of caffeine (about 8 cups of green tea) per day doesn't seem to increase the risk of getting osteoporosis.

 

[The Nehor]

The official handbook clarification:

“The only official interpretation of “hot drinks” (Doctrine and Covenants 89:9) in the Word of Wisdom is the statement made by early Church leaders that the term “hot drinks” means tea and coffee.

Members should not use any substance that contains illegal drugs. Nor should members use harmful or habit-forming substances except under the care of a competent physician.”

This is in both handbooks including the one every member has access to.

[Rivers]

I used to think the Word of Wisdom was a simple topic.

 

[SettingDogStar]

3 hours ago, Rivers said:

I used to think the Word of Wisdom was a simple topic.

 

Nothing is simple here haha

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, Rivers said:

I used to think the Word of Wisdom was a simple topic.

It was until it became a principle made of the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture.

[longview]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

There are proven health benefits of green tea.  There is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it.  

 

8 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Except for some of these?

  Quote

1. Stomach Problems

Green tea may cause stomach irritation when brewed too strongly or consumed on an empty stomach (1). Green tea contains tannins that can increase the amount of acid in your stomach. Excess acid can lead to digestive issues including constipation, acid reflux, and nausea. Brewing green tea with water that is too hot can exacerbate these side effects. Brew your green tea with water between 160 and 180 F.

Adding hot water to tea brings out the caffeine first.  Brewing a longer time gradually brings out tannic acid.  It is a traditional ingredient used for "tanning" leather.  There are reports of exhumations of bodies in the British Isles where it is found the stomach well preserved (whereas the rest of the body is decomposed).  Won't that effect the normal function of the stomach (and the intestines)?

[JAHS]

8 hours ago, sunstoned said:

There are proven health benefits of green tea.  There is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it.  

There are some medical reasons which have already been mentioned. But that doesn't change the fact that it is against the Word of Wisdom. 
The Word of wisdom is also a test of our willingness to obey.

[CV75]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

So you're saying that a Saint today can only really understand the Word of Wisdom in light of current prophetic teaching?
And that to say you are obeying it (the revelation) but not obeying the current prophetic teaching shows a lack of integrity and good faith?

Did I understand correctly?

I’m saying a saint understands and obeys the Word of Wisdom in relation to the temple recommend question when he understands current prophetic teachings and expectations on it; that it requires good faith and integrity to do so; and, that this is important for his mortal probation. We are responsible for acting on what we are given in our lifetime by those with the keys to do so.

And that a saint can also understand the letter, historical, academic, health science and other contexts of the Word of Wisdom, and have various personal convictions about it, but these won’t necessarily help him in the temple recommend interview (or otherwise) when he observes practices contrary to the current prophetic teachings.

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Actually, the lord isn't commanding.  The text of the revelation states in verse two:

It seems to me the men have created a policy and have raised it to the level that it overrides the original revelation. IMO that is a dangerous thing to do.  That's how we got the racist priesthood policy that we had to live with for 150 years.

Aspects of the revelation were later made binding as a commandment for eligibility for certain things such as temple worship and most Church callings. This was done when the Church was led by prophets who had as much authority as when Joseph Smith led the Church. How often have we heard of the folly of accepting dead prophets while rejecting living ones?

Edited October 8, 2019 by Scott Lloyd

[Scott Lloyd]

54 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I’m saying a saint understands and obeys the Word of Wisdom in relation to the temple recommend question when he understands current prophetic teachings and expectations on it; that it requires good faith and integrity to do so; and, that this is important for his mortal probation. We are responsible for acting on what we are given in our lifetime by those with the keys to do so.

 

And that a saint can also understand the letter, historical, academic, health science and other contexts of the Word of Wisdom, and have various personal convictions about it, but these won’t necessarily help him in the temple recommend interview (or otherwise) when he observes practices contrary to the current prophetic teachings.

 

Yes. 
 

There is more to the Word of Wisdom than just health advice. Part of is a test of faith and obedience in God’s word as conveyed by living prophets. 

[pogi]

Based on much of the questioning in this thread, I think most of us will have to answer that question with a “no, I don’t understand”, or “understand according to whose interpretation?” 

When this happens, are bishops going to be given an official explanation to provide questioning temple recommend seekers, or is it always going to be according to the bishop’s interpretation?

Edited October 8, 2019 by pogi

[CV75]

38 minutes ago, pogi said:

Based on much of the questioning in this thread, I think most of us will have to answer that question with a “no, I don’t understand”, or “understand according to whose interpretation?” 

When this happens, are bishops going to be given an official explanation to provide questioning temple recommend seekers, or is it always going to be according to the bishop’s interpretation?

It is our individual responsibility to interpret and understand, after all is said and done.

I think if someone says, “No, I don’t understand," then the bishop can reschedule the interview until the person can say they do understand. The bishop can also find out how he can help them do that.

If someone says, “Understand according to whose interpretation?” the bishop has Handbook 1 to refer to if necessary. If the bishop picks up on a weird vibe, then they can have a more detailed conversation as needed and perhaps reschedule the actual temple recommend interview.

Edited October 8, 2019 by CV75

[etana]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Aspects of the revelation were later made binding as a commandment for eligibility for certain things such as temple worship and most Church callings. This was done when the Church was led by prophets who had as much authority as when Joseph Smith led the Church. How often have we heard of the folly of accepting dead prophets while rejecting living ones?

of course we listen to and accept continuing revelation. That doesn't mean that we can expect modern prophets to completely contradict what God has said "through" his prophets in the past; in this case, specifically, that it is NOT a commandment. It is certainly a policy and a practice and a commitment that we willingly make, but it is not a commandment. Unless you want to call God, who knew the future when he spoke through Joseph, a liar.

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, pogi said:

Based on much of the questioning in this thread, I think most of us will have to answer that question with a “no, I don’t understand”, or “understand according to whose interpretation?” 

No, when I am asked "11. Do you understand and obey the Word of Wisdom" I will answer as I always do.  Yes.

I don't see any reason to make sure I'm current with the ever changing administrative policy of the day as long as I am following God's Word of Wisdom.

[JAHS]

3 hours ago, JAHS said:

11 hours ago, sunstoned said:

There are proven health benefits of green tea.  There is no scientific or medical reason to avoid it.  

There are some medical reasons which have already been mentioned. But that doesn't change the fact that it is against the Word of Wisdom. 
The Word of wisdom is also a test of our willingness to obey.

I have a hard time understanding why some members feel they need to drink things(like tea) that the Word of Wisdom proscribes.  There are just a few things specified in the word of wisdom and there are so many other things that one can drink instead.  If someone only wants to drink it because they like the taste, can't they find something else they can like so they don't have to worry about breaking the word of wisdom? 
 

[JLHPROF]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How often have we heard of the folly of accepting dead prophets while rejecting living ones?

If they are in conflict I will follow the one that provided a revelation from heaven.  Because God doesn't contradict himself.

39 minutes ago, etana said:

of course we listen to and accept continuing revelation. That doesn't mean that we can expect modern prophets to completely contradict what God has said "through" his prophets in the past; in this case, specifically, that it is NOT a commandment. It is certainly a policy and a practice and a commitment that we willingly make, but it is not a commandment. Unless you want to call God, who knew the future when he spoke through Joseph, a liar.

Agreed.

[juliann]

11 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Did you actually look at the references?

Did you click on the 'Side Effects' tab on WebMd?

 

When you read these things, they are listing every possible rare thing....and there are mentions of excessive consumption. Side effects are irrelevant to what is a nessesary medical intervention. I recently had an allergic reaction so severe that I can't take that class of medication again. That doesn't mean this medication isn't keeping an awful lot of people healthy.

I found the reference to diabetes, as if green tea was bad for it, very odd on your first list. I have a research site for diabetes that I track. There is no question it is beneficial according to the latest research (and former research), it lowers your postprandial blood sugar if you drink one cup after dinner. Oddly, Lipton Tea contains the most of the desired element.

That diabetics are being told not to take advantage of this is troublesome. 

[MustardSeed]

Things do change. 

I now feel no guilt drinking any soda with caffeine and I also recently purchased a marijuana product (cbd) to address some joint pain.  No pun intended. 

Twenty years ago I would have not been able to allow myself to answer the question the same way I am able to today. 

[etana]

53 minutes ago, JAHS said:

I have a hard time understanding why some members feel they need to drink things(like tea) that the Word of Wisdom proscribes.  There are just a few things specified in the word of wisdom and there are so many other things that one can drink instead.  If someone only wants to drink it because they like the taste, can't they find something else they can like so they don't have to worry about breaking the word of wisdom? 
 

Not a habitual tea drinker, but i know some and try to follow Jesus' words in Luke 10: 8 Whatever city you enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you. and Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 10: 27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.