What I like about being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

[InCognitus]

An article by author Mette Harrison on the Religion News Service caught my eye yesterday, titled, "What Mormonism taught me", and it got me thinking about all the things I like about being a member of the Church.

There are many things on her list that I can relate to, but two of the things she said stuck in my mind this morning:

Quote

Mormonism taught me that education is something you keep forever, that knowledge doesn’t end in this world.

Mormonism taught me that science is not separate from religion, and that God makes sense of all the truths in the world and is bound by the laws of the universe.

I really like these things about the Church.  

It reminded me of this quote from Joseph Smith, which is another thing I really like about being a member of the Church:

Quote

Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true [pure] "Mormons."  (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Six 1843–44, p.316)

I like that the true church gathers up all things that are true!   Clearly we haven't arrived at the destination yet,  this is a work in progress.  And that's what makes it all very very interesting.

 

[MustardSeed]

Emphasis on family

Patterned after Christ’s church

Unpaid clergy and sermon

Lifestyle church

[Amulek]

I'm just here for the Jello...

 

[stemelbow]

Thanks for this.  I can relate as one from the outside looking in these days.  I think it's what draws me to places like this.  I still enjoy being Mormon even if I can't really fit inside a church any longer.

As I said, I can relate and each on her list works for me as well, even if a couple I would not have thought about.  

Mormonism taught me to always be ready to ask a question and not be settled, or particularly dogmatic, in any given conclusion because there is always more to learn.  

[longview]

48 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

I can relate as one from the outside looking in these days.  I think it's what draws me to places like this.  I still enjoy being Mormon even if I can't really fit inside a church any longer.

I fully embrace the "Purpose" of the Lord.  Which is to invite intelligences to become spirit children of Heavenly Father, vote to participate in the "Great Plan of Happiness", take on all the challenges of mortality and (hopefully) more completely utilize (rely on) the Power of the Atonement (that helps us to transcend our shortcomings).

The Resurrection is a FREE gift for ALL who are born into the world.  The only question is if you want a Celestial Exaltation or a humdrum Telestial complacency.  You might ask yourself:  are you playing a game of "keep away" from your Maker?  Why not put Him to the test?  Be brave enough to try to walk with Him.  God wants to bless you beyond your imaginings but He cannot force His gifts on you.  It is up to you to do the "implementing" (grace to grace).

If you can't stand the people in the church, maybe you should take off the telestial eyeglasses and put on celestial frames and look at your circumstances with the Eternal Perspective?  And allow the Lord to mold you as pliable clay (not be brittle) and make you a new creature.

[stemelbow]

2 minutes ago, longview said:

I fully embrace the "Purpose" of the Lord.  Which is to invite intelligences to become spirit children of Heavenly Father, vote to participate in the "Great Plan of Happiness", take on all the challenges of mortality and (hopefully) more completely utilize (rely on) the Power of the Atonement (that helps us to transcend our shortcomings).

The Resurrection is a FREE gift for ALL who are born into the world.  The only question is if you want a Celestial Exaltation or a humdrum Telestial complacency.  You might ask yourself:  are you playing a game of "keep away" from your Maker?  Why not put Him to the test?  Be brave enough to try to walk with Him.  God wants to bless you beyond your imaginings but He cannot force His gifts on you.  It is up to you to do the "implementing" (grace to grace).

If you can't stand the people in the church, maybe you should take off the telestial eyeglasses and put on celestial frames and look at your circumstances with the Eternal Perspective?  And allow the Lord to mold you as pliable clay (not be brittle) and make you a new creature.

I think I've given the wrong impression.  Most of my favorite people in life are active members of the Church.  I can stand the people...I love them.  That's not really what has sent me out.  

I'd like to add:

Mormonism taught me the best way forward is to take responsibility for your part in life, learn to go inward to solve personal problems, as most problems stem from a mixed up perspective.  

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

Thanks for this.  I can relate as one from the outside looking in these days.  I think it's what draws me to places like this.  I still enjoy being Mormon even if I can't really fit inside a church any longer.

As I said, I can relate and each on her list works for me as well, even if a couple I would not have thought about.  

Mormonism taught me to always be ready to ask a question and not be settled, or particularly dogmatic, in any given conclusion because there is always more to learn.  

 

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

I think I've given the wrong impression.  Most of my favorite people in life are active members of the Church.  I can stand the people...I love them.  That's not really what has sent me out.  

I'd like to add:

Mormonism taught me the best way forward is to take responsibility for your part in life, learn to go inward to solve personal problems, as most problems stem from a mixed up perspective.  

I read you as saying that you see some different truth for you than the Church accepts. This ends up making you feel on the outside of the Church.

I see that as a weakness of the hierarchical structure of the earthly Church, so I empathize with you to this extent, even though my other truths are somewhat different from yours.. The Church has assumed that only the president is going to receive the mysteries of God. To the extent that its structure discourages looking for truth outside of the current paradigm, it is frustrating. Do we really believe that the president is going to be the most exalted? Somehow that doesn't seem to jive with Yeshua's words that the greatest among us shall be the least. So yes, I agree that the Church teaches us that we are each responsible for our part in this life, and not to expect others to solve all our problems. However, I would add that the Church needs to accept its teaching that truth is acceptable from whatever source it comes instead of hunkering down behind earthly authority as it tends to do. As you say it assumes there is more to learn, but then sometimes discourages questions against its current paradigm. But you have to give it credit for teaching the principles even if it has issues following them itself - that we are still learning precept upon precept. When I began to have serious doubts about the orthodox interpretation of scripture, the open "theology"/outlook of the Church was appealing to me. But yes, there is a "natural" conflict/tension between the Church's own teaching, and its conception of authority. The things that initially struck me as true and godly about the Church - it's concern for others including the dead who have not had the opportunity to hear the gospel, still strike me as being the true gospel, and incidentally, the Church is the only organization which has consistently pursued this work - even among those who have schismed from the Church - other sects of Mormonism if you will. Why is this so? Is it because this Church is the only one which has remained true to the restored gospel?

Where I have differed from the Church really has nothing to do with the gospel of salvation. The Church continues to teach the true gospel, and LIVE it. That is HUGE in my book. If I see God a little differently than the Church has come to believe, that is really not its fault. I just view myself as having evolved beyond what the Church has taught. As you say the Church teaches that ultimately we are each responsible for ourselves. Was Yeshua beyond our understanding? Yet, He came to teach us. God is invariably interested in the welfare of His children. I will always love the restored gospel, and what the Church has taught me, even if that has led me to some places where I disagree with past teachings. It is just slow to evolve, but it has shown that it will. It is willing. Can you accept that God is still working within the Church to forward His gospel? For me that is ultimately the question that it comes down to.

[Jeanne]

3 hours ago, Amulek said:

I'm just here for the Jello...

 

Missing the funeral potatoes...

[Ahab]

Lots of things I like about being a member of the true church of Jesus Christ, but probably the thing I like best is that somebody has enough of the keys of the kingdom of God to enable me to have access to all of the blessings God desires to share with everyone. And that person with those keys has a way of transmitting that power to me without me having to wait until I'm ready to physically go to Jesus Christ to get access to all of those things.  Or even physically go to the person on this planet with all of those keys, because that person with all of those keys is empowered to delegate the power of those keys to other people who are closer to me.  Close enough that I can travel to them in less than an hour from where I live.  Well, I suppose the nearest temple is about 2 hours from me, but still that is nice to have easy enough access to all of those things.

[smac97]

In no particular order:

The teachings of the Gospel have given me an external standard of behavior to which I strive to adhere.  If I were to have defined my own moral code, it would likely have been too self-centered and subjective.

The Church provides a feeling of community.  This one sounds trite and sentimental, but the more I think about it, the more valuable I find it to be.  Many folks who have left the Church speak of the loss of this (the sense of community) as being one of the more painful parts of leaving.  Conversely, at any given time I have all sorts of people who can help me at any time, and whom I can help at any time.

The teachings of the Church have made me a much better husband and father than I otherwise would have been.

The teachings of the Church have helped me understand the value of education, hard work, ethical conduct, self-reliance, community involvement/responsibility, and the proper use of individual agency.

The teachings of the Church have made me understand and pursue genuinely important goals in order to find happiness, contentment, etc.

The teachings of the Church have helped me understand the importance of charity for and service to our fellow man.

The teachings of the Church have expanded my perspective and understanding of the purpose of life.  Where we came from, why we are here, where we are going.

The teachings of the Church have helped me to understand and value the relationship between God and man, and the centrality of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives.

The teachings of the Church have helped me value the pursuit of truth, and to differentiate identifying what is true from what is popular.

The teachings of the Church have helped me understand how much I don't know, and the concomitant value of faith, guidance from the Holy Spirit, and "enduring to the end."

The teachings of the Church have helped me recognize my failings, while also giving me a framework in which I can work to overcome and improve on those failings (repentance).

The teachings of the Church have helped me appreciate the value of ordinances and priesthood authority.

The teachings of the Church have helped me to control my fear of death and the unknown.  As Marie Curie put it: "Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood."  I have a friend who has taken a winding road in and out of fellowship with God.  At last, after some years, he "came to himself" (Luke 15:17), straightened out his life, and has returned to the Lord's Church, to full fellowship, to the temple, and so on.  And then he was diagnosed with cancer.  I visited him on Saturday.  He is, in a word, serene.  He has been receiving chemo treatments for some months.  He will be getting a CT scan in a few weeks.  He told me that if the cancer has been reduced or eradicated, he has plans to move home (to Ecuador) to spend his last few years (the cancer is terminal, it's just a matter of time).  He also said that if the cancer has returned or worsened, he will discontinue the treatment and let the disease take its course.  Either way, though, he is . . . serene.  He is at peace.  He knows where he stands.  He knows where he is going.  He doesn't fear death.  He understands it.  I hope to be like that, when my time comes.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited October 1, 2019 by smac97

[MiserereNobis]

I like how peculiar ya'll are (said, of course, with great affection). Keeps me coming back here  

[Rivers]

I’m grateful to have grown up with the Word of Wisdom.  Working in healthcare has given me greater appreciation for it.

I love the theology.

Pioneer heritage.

Pot lucks.

Elder Uchdorf 

Church ball

The youth programs that helped keep me inline as a youngster. 

But the most important thing to me right now is having a set of values and morals giving me some kind of meaning in life.  It’s hard to live life without some sense of purpose.  I think the lack of purpose and meaning in people’s lives is a contributing factor in the suicide problem we’re facing. Heck,  I may not even be here  now if I didn’t have the gospel to hold onto in my lowest moments.  

 

 

 

[Ahab]

17 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I like how peculiar ya'll are (said, of course, with great affection). Keeps me coming back here  

Aren't you peculiar too? I think everybody is peculiar.  Some more than others but still pretty peculiar. So even if some people think we are peculiar that doesn't mean they aren't peculiar, too.  Otherwise everybody would be the same, which is clearly not what all people are.

[Kevin Christensen]

I would start by defining what the "church" is to me.  It's a covenant assembly, a bunch of people bound by covenants and stories and history, rather than a hierarchy, an office building with bureaucrats and official policies, and a Big Book of What to Think.    The assembly has many things like that, but the things the assembly has and makes use of is not what the assembly is.  It's important to distinguish between what the assembly has and what the assembly is.

In that context, my own experiences growing up were helpful and uplifting, in the main.  I could cite some negatives, but the danger in generalizing from negative experiences is that they are not generally representative.  It provided a wholesome, helpful, uplifting, noble environment.

On top of that, I am personally convinced that the central points of the restoration represent reality.  There is a God, Jesus is divine, and Joseph Smith was a real prophet, receiving real inspiration, most profoundly and impressively embodied in the Book of Mormon and the witnesses around it.  I have sought out of the best books, inside and out, and tested the central claims in a variety of ways, including looking at the research and productions of people who have explored in ways that I could never have done, if left to myself, and in coming up with some tests that no had done before me.  I never worried about being spoon fed via institutional means, because I have been personally seeking and finding exciting resources both inside and outside formal institutional means.  Seek and ye shall find.  I've found incredible talent and resources eager to share on everything.

I love the plan of salvation.  And I have been particularly impressed in how it measures up against the great philosophical questions, as poised by non-LDS thinkers.  Truman Madsen's Eternal Man was a key doorway, and I've enjoyed what I have found as I have traveled further through that doorway.  I have been particularly impressed in reading about Process Theology, and finding that Joseph Smith got there first.  I was impressed in reading NDE accounts, and finding Joseph Smith got there first.  I have been impressed in reading in comparative religion, and temples, and mythology, and finding the deeper I go, the more profound the resonance with what Joseph Smith provided.  He was definitely on to something.  I was impressed in reading Emerson, and finding that in much Joseph, with far fewer economic and social resources, got there first, and went farther.

I have enjoyed the experience of wrestling with counter-claims and narratives, whether from Campbell, or the Roberts Study, or Brodie, or the Tanners, or the Godmakers, or Sagan, or Coe, or Vogel and Metcalfe and George D. Smith, or Wright, or Riskas, or Runnells or Taves, or Freud, or Bertrand Russell, or many others from a range of perspectives.  I've read and heard many arguments against the existence of God and/or the reality of the restoration.  But it has always been clear to me that the God I believe in is quite different than the God various critics disbelieve in.  The arguments do not apply.  I find that the case for the Book of Mormon keeps getting better and better.  It's far better than what I started with, far better than what the institutional side provided, and far better than what I get from the critics.

I have had a wide variety of impressive spiritual experiences that add up over sixty five years so far.  I have studied the notion of spiritual experiences from a comparative religious perspective, and find that what I have experienced in Mormonism matches what is offered and reported elsewhere.  And I find that Mormonism does not insist that nothing good or true ought to be found elsewhere, but rather, emphatically insists that this is the case.  So I don't need to take an all or nothing view.  My belief in God does not depend on Joseph Smith.  Rather, it is enhanced through what I have found in the restoration. For instance, here:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.org/sophic-box-and-mantic-vista-a-review-of-deconstructing-mormonism/

Some of the most mind expanding and soul enlarging experiences of my life have come through testing my LDS and Christian faith in ways that Joseph Smith could not have imagined.  Reading Thomas Kuhn remains enlightening, but I had discovered most of the same notions by reading the Bible.  It was explaining my discoveries to a convert who had read Kuhn that led me there.  And then I saw the same epistomology in Alma 32.  Again, Joseph Smith had a knack for getting there first, which raises the question, how and why did he manage so often?

I've found that all I need to do is keep my eyes open, give things time, and re-examine my own assumptions now and then.  Rather than not searching, insisting on final answers now, and never checking my own assumptions.  For example, I kept the evolution/creation controversy on simmer for many years, reading this and that, till in 1980 I ran across Hugh Nibley's Before Adam, which changed everything.  Later, I was troubled for a few days by Anthony Hutchinson's Dialogue essay on the four LDS creation accounts.  While pondering his diagram of the Hebrew Cosmos, I remembered having seen something very similar in a different context.  In Hamlet's Mill, a book Nibley had quoted fairly often.  And that led to my first contribution to LDS letters in Dialogue, "New Wine and New Bottles: Scriptural Scholarship as Sacrament."  At this remove, almost 30 years later, I consider everything that I would have missed, without even knowing what I was missing, had I caved at that point, had I let Hutchinson control my narrative, set my path, guide my steps.

I think about spotting a copy of Margaret Barker's The Great Angel: A Study of Israel's Second God in a visit to a Dallas Half-Price Books in 1999, and all that has happened since.  It's not just the learning, but becoming part of something much larger than myself.  And at the same time seeing that it would have happened without me.  Noel Reynolds told me that if I hadn't just written Paradigms Regained, he would have done so.  On Oct 12, I'll be at BYU for their conference for the New Testament Commentary on Hebrews, giving 25 minute talk at 10:30 am.  Not something I would have imagined 30 years ago, or even a few months ago.  So cool stuff comes along, just by hanging around.

I think about reading Patrick Carnes and my own personal recovery work, and preserving my marriage (celebrating 41 years last Sunday), and seeing my daughter marry, and being there in the temple with her, and blessing my granddaughters, and then seeing many other lives affected by my own recovery and work with LDS ARP.

I like listening to testimonies on Fast Sunday, a range of people whose lives and choices and talents have many differences from mine, but who report, with joy, how Christ has touched their lives, lifted them, in many instances through appallingly dreadful trials and events.  I see that Christ has many ways of working with individuals of different temperaments and talents and backgrounds.  And that too is soul enlarging, something that I would not wish to miss, had I decided that I could manage everything better by going my own way, and abandoning the complications, obligations, and frustrations of community, and just surrounding myself with people who only told me what I wanted to hear, and who only behaved in ways that I always agreed with.  Eugene England wrote a lovely essay on that, "Why the Church is as True as the Gospel".

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by Kevin Christensen

[Ahab]

Thank you, Kevin.  Something else I like about being a part of the church.  Something i had not heard of before but am glad to have found, with the help of you mentioning it. Oh how i love reading Hugh Nibley!  I've read a bit and will read the rest later but so far I've found that I already had the correct notion on this.  I just love the depth he adds to the story and how good it feels to read what he knew!

For others who would also like to read it I'll put a link here: http://scottwoodward.org/Talks/html/z-Scholarly Articles/NibleyH_BeforeAdam.html

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

.................. I was troubled for a few days by Anthony Hutchinson's Dialogue essay on the four LDS creation accounts.  While pondering his diagram of the Hebrew Cosmos, I remembered having seen something very similar in a different context.  In Hamlet's Mill, a book Nibley had quoted fairly often.  ............................... 

Didn't Anthony Hutchinson become an Episcopal Priest?  In the northwest somewhere?

1 hour ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Eugene England wrote a lovely essay on that, "Why the Church is as True as the Gospel"..............................

Didn't Gene say that only in an LDS congregation would you meet such a mix of people you'd ordinarily not make part of your circle of friends?

Anyhow, I really enjoyed your brief autobiography.

[InCognitus]

I'd like to say "ditto" to so many of the things that have been said so far.

I have had similar experiences with the counter-claims of the critics (including some of those listed by Kevin Christensen, although definitely not to the same extent that he has had), and doing so has always led to a greater understanding of my faith and beliefs that have surpassed anything that I could have ever imagined.

Regarding theology and philosophy, the speech by David L. Paulsen on Joseph Smith and the Problem of Evil, has been a long time favorite of mine.  Joseph Smith got there first on that one too.  And how did he know so much about earliest of Christian teachings (men become “gods”, Jesus as “another God” or the “second God”)?   He got there first too.  It just gets more rewarding and mind blowing the deeper one digs.

One other thing I wanted to mention that I like about the Church is the volunteer participation of members in all the callings of the church (and that we normally don't get to pick our own callings).  I visited a ward in Utah this last Sunday and it was their fast and testimony meeting (since General Conference is coming up this weekend).  The Bishop was conducting and so he was the first one to bear his testimony.  He said something like, “I love each and every one of you.  I remember before I became a bishop, I used to hear other bishops say the same thing and I wondered how they could really love each member of the ward.  But now I know.”   This is the beauty of the organization of the church.  As we receive callings we struggle and grow and learn how to seek the Lord’s help in how to fulfill what we need to do and receive direction from the Spirit.  And having these experiences, in whatever calling we have, gives us a greater appreciation and understanding of what our bishop and other leaders are going through.  As a result, we are less inclined to be critical of their leadership and more inclined to be supportive of them in their callings.  And at some point we may find ourselves in one of those same leadership positions, and we will be praying for the support of others and direction from the Lord.   This also helps us to relate to and appreciate what the men and women in scripture had to go through.   Isn’t it great?

[InCognitus]

3 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I like how peculiar ya'll are (said, of course, with great affection). Keeps me coming back here  

I like what the author of the article linked in the OP said about that too:  "The Mormonism of my childhood taught me that being peculiar meant you were blessed by God. It was nothing to be ashamed of, but to be celebrated."

That goes for all who strive to live a Christian life, really.  

[Kevin Christensen]

20 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Didn't Anthony Hutchinson become an Episcopal Priest?  In the northwest somewhere?

Didn't Gene say that only in an LDS congregation would you meet such a mix of people you'd ordinarily not make part of your circle of friends?

Anyhow, I really enjoyed your brief autobiography.

I had heard something about Hutchinson going that way.  One of the things I eventually got from Hutchinson's essay was an understanding of what I call spiritual masochism, that is, a determination to prove one's intellectual integrity by publicly facing unsolvable problems.  The hitch in that approach is that since the point is to prove you can face problems without flinching, solutions become unproductive, and there is a consequent paralysis of imagination.   It's not an uncommon problem.

Here is an online version of England's thoughtful essay.

https://www.eugeneengland.org/why-the-church-is-as-true-as-the-gospel

And thanks.  I always enjoy your well-informed contributions.

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited October 2, 2019 by Kevin Christensen

[OGHoosier]

47 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said:

I had hear something about Hutchinson going that way.  One of the things I eventually got from Hutchinson's essay was an understanding of what I call spiritual masochism, that is, a determination to prove one's intellectual integrity by publicly facing unsolvable problems.  The hitch in that approach is that since the point is to prove you can face problems without flinching, solutions become unproductive, and there is a consequent paralysis of imagination.   It's not an uncommon problem.

Here is an online version of England's thoughtful essay.

https://www.eugeneengland.org/why-the-church-is-as-true-as-the-gospel

And thanks.  I always enjoy your well-informed contributions.

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Kevin, you just opened my eyes. I hadn't even thought about "spiritual masochism," but now I think that accurately describes my approach to a lot of things.

How do you get out of it?

[Jake Starkey]

What a great topic!  I just returned from the JWHA Conference at Rochester, NY, where a community of CoC, LDS, Strangite, Wightite, Cutlerite, Remnant, Restorationist, and whatever-ite scholars and homers met for four days in collegiality to celebrate 'being Mormon.'

[california boy]

At age 3 I learned not to be afraid to speak to a large group while giving my first talk in Junior sunday school.  Oddly enough, I still remember the first like of the talk I memorized.  "Pioneers of long ago were strong, brave and true."

At age 12 I learned to love the outdoors and how good things taste when cooked over a camp fire by making dough out of flour and water and wrapping it on a stick.

At age 16, I learned that I was much better at painting scenery for the ward road show than I was at singing.  It began my career in art that ultimately I made my living doing.

At age 19 I learned how to set goals and organize my time.  To be more efficient and the importance of being prompt while serving a mission in New Zealand.  I learned to love the scriptures and love people that went beyond friendship.

All of these experiences and much more gave me a solid foundation to build my life upon.  It gave me the vision of the possibilities life offers. For that I will always be grateful to the Church.

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2019 by california boy

[LoudmouthMormon]

What do I like about being a member of The Church?  First and foremost, above all else, I believe it's where God wants me to be, and I suppose you could say I "like" doing God's will.  Everything else is a distant second, but there are plenty of them too:

 

- I like the church's welfare program.  It's heartwarming and humble to be finance clerk and write checks to cover this house payment, that medical bill, the other utility payment.

- I like the generous nature of so many members.  I'm getting my new Bishop used to the idea that he'll do a lot of church stuff in Nov and December.  Members show up with envelopes of cash and tell him "make sure this gets wherever it needs to go".  The stake makes us track all this stuff in MLS.  Last year we had such a surplus we were able to transfer some of it to another stake, where they were doing stuff like repairing furnaces so members could have heat, and paying dental bills so members could have teeth.

- I like having something immediately in common with at least a small fraction of people wherever I go in the US.  It makes it much easier for an introverted recluse like me.

[Duncan]

I was going to say , as have others, it gives you public speaking abilities and when your adult friends are dodging that you realize , heck i've been standing up doing this since primary, so public speaking, thinking on your feet, how to do a meeting i.e. plan, organize, execute. I think too it gives you training on how to help others who have a different background than yours. In our ward we have brother who is 1000000000000000000 percent blind and simply needs help and so the ward helps with him, we also have 2 sets of parents who are deaf and so those 4 brothers and sisters need signing and we are all aware of their needs, which gets you out of your own comfort zone and you help. SO, people in our ward are learning ASL.

[Kevin Christensen]

2 hours ago, OGHoosier said:

Kevin, you just opened my eyes. I hadn't even thought about "spiritual masochism," but now I think that accurately describes my approach to a lot of things.

How do you get out of it?

The root of spiritual masochism is pride, so, humility, and the tentativeness and openness that humility engenders helps. 

Quote

Believe in ^aGod; believe that he is, and that he ^bcreated all things, both in heaven and in earth; believe that he has all ^cwisdom, and all power, both in heaven and in earth; believe that man doth not ^dcomprehend all the things which the Lord can comprehend. (Mosiah 4:9)

And there is the concern for being seen facing problems as end in itself, rather than no big deal, just part of the process, something that goes with all learning.   Kuhn talks about the "essential tension" in science, working on the parts of knowledge that don't fit the current paradigm.

Nibley talked about how one of his intellectual heroes (Scalliger) would go to the ghettos to let Jewish children there correct his language, being willing to be taught by children, to be as a child himself, rather than always wanting to be seen as the One Who Knows.  I think about a moment when Margaret Barker came to BYU the first time in 2003, teaching a room full of BYU professors and me and Alyson Von Feldt.  One day there was a slide up, showing the famous Sistine Chapel scene of God reaching out to Adam.  Someone commented (John Gee?) that the cloud in which God appears was the shape of an anatomically correct human brain.  Margaret turned and looked, and smiled and beamed with delight and said "I never thought of that!"  She demonstrated a child like wonder in that moment, and was not at all self conscious about it. And this despite providing lecture material such that Alyson told me she heard Wilfred Griggs say "She puts our scholarship to shame."    But she learned what she did by not assuming that she knew everything, and not really caring what other people thought.  She is all about trying to approach God, and that leads to consideration best shown in Moses 1, "Now I know that man is nothing."  But despite that also being able to say, "I also am a son of God and have further thing to inquire of him."  And that reminds me of James Comey''s book on Leadership, contrasting the best leaders, who embody a combination of humility and confidence, as opposed to those who demonstrate a combination of pride and insecurity (e.g., "I have all the best words").

Alma 32 has a passage where Alma talks about how you do the experiment, see the growth, experience the expansion of the mind, the enlargement of the soul that goes with genuine learning, and asks, "If you knowledge perfect?"  And the answer, "Nay," but you have to continue the process.

Best,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited October 2, 2019 by Kevin Christensen
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