SeekerB Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: The appearance of Jesus is based mainly on his genetics. Only half of his DNA came from Mary. The other half came from somewhere else. I don't think anyone can know what his skin tone was and it really does not matter. That's almost exactly what I was going to say, but you beat me to it.
katherine the great Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 42 minutes ago, Calm said: Isn't there scripture indicating he wasn't unusual in appearance? Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. I think that kind of implies that he was very ordinary in appearance. 4
Storm Rider Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 6 hours ago, poptart said: So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus? I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned. Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. I don't think I have ever thought of Jesus as any race. He always transcended the concept of race for me. When talking about the Savior it seems unnatural to talk of him as a particular race. I am comfortable seeing pictures of Jesus in whatever manner an artist depicts him in a respectful manner.
mfbukowski Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 3 hours ago, carbon dioxide said: The appearance of Jesus is based mainly on his genetics. Only half of his DNA came from Mary. The other half came from somewhere else. I don't think anyone can know what his skin tone was and it really does not matter. Well his Father was an extra-terrestrial... 1
Sevenbak Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Calm said: Isn't there scripture indicating he wasn't unusual in appearance? I believe so yes. But what did that mean 2000 years ago in Israel? We’ as it the same as today? I think that would be hard to determine. Even if one made the determination strictly on Mary’s lineage and not God the Father, King David, from whence Mary came, is described in scripture as ruddy, or reddish in appearance. I don’t think anyone knows except for guessing.
Robert F. Smith Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 22 minutes ago, Stargazer said: Great video! But it isn't absolutely certain that Jews at the time of Jesus's nativity looked like this lovely collection of musicians. There have been many new streams of genetics adding into the Jewish "race" since that time, and now there are Jews who could pass as the faux-Aryans that the Third Reich were so enamoured with. When you think of the Virgin Mary, do you imagine Natalie Portman? Or Rachel Weisz? Or even Scarlett Johansson? All are Jewish (although Scarlett is only half Jewish). As for me, Jesus is Christ, and whatever He looked like in mortality is immaterial. I don't hold to the view that in the Resurrection we maintain our mortal "race". We Caucasians are not "white", we're very light brown. White is the color of the sun, and it washes out all other color. In the resurrection we are all the same race. That's my story and I am sticking to it......................................... You are missing the point: A historical question has been posted, which has nothing to do with whether Jesus is worthy of our respect depending on what he looked like. The soft assimilation of Jews to various populations among whom they have lived over the millennia ignores their original Canaanite gene pool, and we know what that gene pool looks like. 90% of all Lebanese today, for example, have the same DNA their Canaanite ancestors had 3,000 years ago. We know this from DNA obtained from ancient skeletal remains in Canaanite contexts. Some Jewish geneticists, such as David Reich of Harvard, have frankly been astonished to find that modern Jews are tightly interrelated genetically, regardless from whence they came. Even just the problem of Jewish genetic diseases demonstrates that. See my comments online at https://www.quora.com/Are-Palestinians-descendents-of-ancient-hebrews/answer/Bob-Smith-3106 .
Robert F. Smith Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Sevenbak said: I’ve never seen a Thor / Viking Jesus. Although I’m sure he used a hammer as a carpenter. The Swede Max Von Sydow played him in 1965:
Stargazer Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said: You are missing the point: A historical question has been posted, which has nothing to do with whether Jesus is worthy of our respect depending on what he looked like. The soft assimilation of Jews to various populations among whom they have lived over the millennia ignores their original Canaanite gene pool, and we know what that gene pool looks like. 90% of all Lebanese today, for example, have the same DNA their Canaanite ancestors had 3,000 years ago. We know this from DNA obtained from ancient skeletal remains in Canaanite contexts. Some Jewish geneticists, such as David Reich of Harvard, have frankly been astonished to find that modern Jews are tightly interrelated genetically, regardless from whence they came. Even just the problem of Jewish genetic diseases demonstrates that. See my comments online at https://www.quora.com/Are-Palestinians-descendents-of-ancient-hebrews/answer/Bob-Smith-3106 . I really wasn't addressing whether Jesus is worthy of respect depending upon what he looked like. At least I don't think I was. Well, maybe I was, but it wasn't the main thrust of my argument. I just don't think that Natalie Portman for example looks anything like Mary the mother of Jesus, Mary Magdalene, or even Elizabeth, mother of John the Baptist. Or maybe she does, but it seems unlikely. I'm part Amerindian, and my wife thinks that I somewhat resemble my most recent full-blood ancestress (my great great grandmother Yo-he-ma, aka Katie), but I'm only 1/16th blood, and nobody would mistake me for an American Indian. I grant you that Jewish folks tended to not intermarry with non-Jews, but it did happen and appearances may have been somewhat (or more than somewhat) modified over time. See www.konkow.us for my ancestral tribe. Here's a photo montage, with my GG grandmother being the most prominent: I read your Quora answer, and I don't necessarily disagree with you -- following you now. But I think we are far from being sure about facial/racial characteristics 2000 years later.
Duncan Posted August 4, 2018 Posted August 4, 2018 In 2005 then Elder Eyring came to our Stake and he had a QA session and he said specifically don't ask me if I have seen Jesus but then he told us what he looked like now anyways and he directed us to D&C 110. Now, I have no idea if he had seen Jesus to say that or logically deduced that's what he looked like today by simply reading D&C 110
Robert F. Smith Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: ....................... I grant you that Jewish folks tended to not intermarry with non-Jews, but it did happen and appearances may have been somewhat (or more than somewhat) modified over time. ................................... ................. I think we are far from being sure about facial/racial characteristics 2000 years later. Actually genetics now enables us to determine skin and eye color and other specific characteristics of ancient populations. Also, some assimilation tends to get submerged in the larger gene pool. That is why we don't really see much difference, for example, among women in the Tabernacle Choir -- nearly all of those women come from a very similar West European genetic background, going back ultimately to a very few ancestors (we can track it with mtDNA). We find a starkly different visage on modern and ancient Canaanite women (who are virtually the same)
hope_for_things Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 10 hours ago, poptart said: So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus? I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned. Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. As you mentioned the historical Jesus certainly wasn’t Western European white. But the Jesus of faith is not the same thing. I’m comfortable with all cultures portraying Jesus in art as a reflection of their unique race and ethnicity. A diversity of Jesus portrayals seems most appropriate.
poptart Posted August 5, 2018 Author Posted August 5, 2018 6 hours ago, Sevenbak said: I’ve never seen a Thor / Viking Jesus. Although I’m sure he used a hammer as a carpenter. I prefer Jesus with a gun. 2
Kenngo1969 Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 Welp, if I thought that The Savior of the World and the Lord of the Universe should look like me, he'd be a balding, bespectacled, short white guy who's rounding in the middle and who walks with a pair of forearm crutches ... or with a pronounced limp without them. That would shock the world, wouldn't it! Speaking of which, that whole resurrection deal is going to be ... AWESOME! 3
poptart Posted August 5, 2018 Author Posted August 5, 2018 8 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Welp, if I thought that The Savior of the World and the Lord of the Universe should look like me, he'd be a balding, bespectacled, short white guy who's rounding in the middle and who walks with a pair of forearm crutches ... or with a pronounced limp without them. That would shock the world, wouldn't it! Speaking of which, that whole resurrection deal is going to be ... AWESOME! I dunno, at least it would be well, real. Personally, the Christian resurrection/Final Judgment scares the crap out of me. I chuckle at how most people think angels are these sweet things, the angels in the bible are outright terrifying. Imagining Jesus riding with an army of the things behind him is like a nightmare or bad psychadelic trip I think. Ohh and the final judgment, the ground opening up, bodies popping up out of their caskets, some with restored bodies (had said their rosaries, etc.) And others rotting (Didn't repent, lived wicked lives, etc.) happening all over the world, and every last one of them, I mean billions upon billions all being judged before a white throne. Imagine how many get tossed into the lake of fire, and the glory of those who are judged righteous. More than anything just the scale of all this, Jesus going through a loooong list of people and those scary angels probably still hanging around. That's just unreal...
Kenngo1969 Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, poptart said: I dunno, at least it would be well, real. Personally, the Christian resurrection/Final Judgment scares the crap out of me. I chuckle at how most people think angels are these sweet things, the angels in the bible are outright terrifying. Imagining Jesus riding with an army of the things behind him is like a nightmare or bad psychadelic trip I think. Ohh and the final judgment, the ground opening up, bodies popping up out of their caskets, some with restored bodies (had said their rosaries, etc.) And others rotting (Didn't repent, lived wicked lives, etc.) happening all over the world, and every last one of them, I mean billions upon billions all being judged before a white throne. Imagine how many get tossed into the lake of fire, and the glory of those who are judged righteous. More than anything just the scale of all this, Jesus going through a loooong list of people and those scary angels probably still hanging around. That's just unreal... I'm not sure how well your conception of the resurrection, of the judgment, and of the second coming match LDS thought.
poptart Posted August 5, 2018 Author Posted August 5, 2018 23 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: I'm not sure how well your conception of the resurrection, of the judgment, and of the second coming match LDS thought. Probably none. The twisted part of me kinda chuckles at the unreal thought of the resurrection. I'd be like "Hey Mr. Cherubim that guy was about to commit a sin get him!" And watch as millions of the things swarmed said person.
strappinglad Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 I'm not sure the Jewish leaders would need Judas to point out Jesus if He stood out in a crowd ." Just look for the 6 ft. 4 inch guy with long blond hair and blue eyes, you can't miss him " . The scriptures indicate that on a couple of occasions when Jesus was about to be detained , He just melted into the crowd. Ever seen videos of a Palestinian crowd of men protesting something? Good luck picking out a particular individual. 1
cinepro Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Stargazer said: Oh, and here are some lovely Israeli Defence Force ladies. Picture any one of them as the Virgin Mary. Aren't they beautiful! ❤️ I don't know the precise percentage, but a good part of the current population of Israel aren't descended from Middle Eastern stock. So it's probably not a good idea to look to the current inhabitants of the holy land to surmise what the ancient inhabitants looked like.
Scott Lloyd Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Calm said: Isn't there scripture indicating he wasn't unusual in appearance? Isaiah 53:2 is what I think you’re alluding to: “For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.” I don’t know that this says He would not be unusual in appearance, only that he would not be spectacularly “comely” or attractive. And I’ve never been comfortable anyway with the supposition that in our resurrected and glorified state, our appearance will be identical to what we look like in mortality.
The Nehor Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 If Jesus cannot bother to be blond haired and blue eyed then I am going to go worship Odin instead. 1
Kenngo1969 Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) I think the idea, that, since The Savior of the World and the Lord of the Universe has certain physical characteristics, or since He lacks them (whatever they might be), or since He (allegedly) has never known a particular circumstance, that means He cannot identify with ME, needs to be jettisoned. There are those, even within the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who view absolutely everything through the lens of identity politics, and who, therefore, say that, "Because Jesus was/is ..." and I am not, or "Because Jesus was not/is not ..." and I am, that means that "there's no possible way that HE could identify with ME." Abundant scripture testifies directly to the contrary. Christ descended below ALL things (Doctrine & Covenants 122:8, 88:6-7) Christ suffered more than man can suffer, "except it be unto death" (Alma 7) Christ took upon Himself, not only our sins, but our "infirmities," that he may know "according to the flesh" how to succor us (Alma 7) Christ comprehends ALL things (Doctrine & Covenants 88:6-7) Christ gave His life; no one took it from Him (John 10:18) Christ "gave [His] back to the smiters" (Isaiah 50:6) As the only sinless person who has ever lived, there was no reason for Christ's Father to forsake Him, and yet His Father did (Matthew 27:46; see also Doctrine & Covenants 88:106) Christ is "despised and rejected of men" and "a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief" (Isaiah 53:3) And Etc. Edited August 5, 2018 by Kenngo1969
Stargazer Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 10 hours ago, cinepro said: I don't know the precise percentage, but a good part of the current population of Israel aren't descended from Middle Eastern stock. So it's probably not a good idea to look to the current inhabitants of the holy land to surmise what the ancient inhabitants looked like. Well, that's what I've been trying to say, but Robert is insistent on his point.
Calm Posted August 5, 2018 Posted August 5, 2018 (edited) On 8/4/2018 at 3:43 PM, katherine the great said: Isaiah 53:2 For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him. I think that kind of implies that he was very ordinary in appearance. And he was apparently not easily identified on sight given how Judas had to single him out for the guards (though this might have something to do with lighting). what strapping said.... Edited August 5, 2018 by Calm 1
Nofear Posted August 6, 2018 Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) Comment deleted (another answered) Edited August 6, 2018 by Nofear
Guest Posted August 6, 2018 Posted August 6, 2018 (edited) On August 4, 2018 at 11:40 AM, poptart said: So, here's something i've been curious about, would you be ok with a non white Jesus? I always chuckle when I see a Jesus that looks northern European, he was most likely Arabic/olive skinned. Not like it matters, I just wonder how Christians would react if their savior didn't look like them. What Jesus looks like, mattes little, if at all, and no more than what he would be wearing. Edited August 6, 2018 by Bill "Papa" Lee 2
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