LDS and BSA are parting ways at the end of 2019

[Hestia]

YJacket and Tulip have been banned from the thread.

[Storm Rider]

9 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Am I the only one disappointed? I've been involved in scouting since i was a cub before I knew the Church has anything to do with it. I know this has been coming a while with the changes with the BSA and with the Church needing a moral unified global program, but it's still sad. And it's sad to watch an organization I truly love falling apart

Avatar, I am with you. I grew up scouting in Alaska and as an old man I can still see in my mind's eye learning to canoe on Blue lake; learning to cook in the outdoors; reciting the scout oath and law; hiking 50 miles; camping out when it was 30 below; reading Outdoor Life; fishing with my friends; earning merit badges by the bunches at camp.  I saw our son grow up in scouting with great leaders and get his Eagle.

Somewhere along the way the value of helping boys learn to appreciate the outdoors, wake up to a breakfast made on a campfire; and hiking in the cool of the evening was lost.  Another chapter of innocence is closed as society focuses on a concrete world of consumerism. 

Edited May 9, 2018 by Storm Rider

[Kenngo1969]

Scouting's "demise" in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not preclude LDS youth from participating in units chartered to other organizations, and let's not forget that Scouting and the Church have always been decoupled in most of the rest of the world outside the United States and Canada.  And it seems that some people's default position is to bemoan the ineffectiveness of programs as implemented in the Church of Jesus Christ, as some here seem already to be be bemoaning the ineffectiveness of a plan which hasn't even been implemented yet.  😖 

It seems the Church of Jesus Christ can't win: Even among the purportedly faithful, half of its detractors lament its former "top-down" approach, saying (essentially, if not in so many words), "People in Salt Lake have absolutely no idea what it's like out here," while the other half of its detractors maintain that its new, decentralized, follow-the-Spirit-and-adapt-as-individual-circumstances-dictate approach cannot possibly work without adequate oversight and training ... which they expect to come from ... Salt Lake.

[Kenngo1969]

40 minutes ago, Rivers said:

Thanks for the correction . I don’t know why I keep forgetting there’s no “i” in there.

Wouldn't want you to have a testimony that the prophetic mantle had fallen upon the wrong guy! 

  

[iamchuck]

As a scout, and now as a scout leader, I've heard for years the rumors of the church getting out of scouts. In the last few years, other unit leaders, not LDS, would ask about how much longer we (LDS) plan to do scouts, as if the writing had been on the wall for them too.

When run well, a scouting program has a big positive impact on the youth and families of the ward. I hope that it will be missed by others. I'll certainly miss it. I hope that the new youth programs give all young men and women a chance to lead and be mentored. As @janderich said, the ymactivities site is not an adequate substitute for the structure, and infrastructure, of scouts. 

One thing I liked about Scouting was the training and emphasis on youth protection. I feel that all the church programs could benefit from that youth protection emphasis. 

Now I am thinking about all the scouts we need to help if they want to get to Eagle, before Dec 31 2019, as part of the LDS troop!

[hope_for_things]

12 hours ago, webbles said:

Just saw the Deseret News article - https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900018074/mormons-to-drop-scouting-as-part-of-new-global-initiative.html

On the church's website, they now have - https://www.lds.org/youth/childrenandyouth?lang=eng

Hey, now that the church is separating from the boy scouts, I wonder if the church will begin to re-write the history of its past relationship with the scouting organization?  Something like the way the church has disowned and fought against polygamy perhaps?   Will future histories be written where any mention of scouting is scrubbed from official Sunday School manuals?  Will President Monson's lifetime in the scouting program even make it into the future manuals about his teachings?   Will the church try to whitewash its history with scouting?  It will be fun to watch.  🙂  

[HappyJackWagon]

Just now, hope_for_things said:

Hey, now that the church is separating from the boy scouts, I wonder if the church will begin to re-write the history of its past relationship with the scouting organization?  Something like the way the church has disowned and fought against polygamy perhaps?   Will future histories be written where any mention of scouting is scrubbed from official Sunday School manuals?  Will President Monson's lifetime in the scouting program even make it into the future manuals about his teachings?   Will the church try to whitewash its history with scouting?  It will be fun to watch.  🙂  

I think the church will wear its past association with scouting as a badge of honor just as they will also informally wear their disassociation on "moral grounds".

Gotta hand it to Pres. Nelson, he's a mover. He seems very pragmatic in his approach to church administration and not tied unduly to tradition. If it's not working, move on. That's a good thing IMO.

Next up- 2 hour block and civil marriages prior to temple sealings.

I would imagine that he and Pres. Oaks are great partners in this. It seems to me they may have been crafting their shared plan for restructuring church administration as partners for a while now. It's a smart, bold move.

[Prof]

9 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Am I the only one disappointed? I've been involved in scouting since i was a cub before I knew the Church has anything to do with it. I know this has been coming a while with the changes with the BSA and with the Church needing a moral unified global program, but it's still sad. And it's sad to watch an organization I truly love falling apart

in truth, I am a bit saddened by this. Scouting was a very big part of my life back in my early years. I truly miss what it was then and am saddened that so much of the organization has changed so much. Then again, society has changed a bit since then as well.

The organization has changed so much that I welcome this change. I wish them well.

[Rain]

1 hour ago, Storm Rider said:

Avatar, I am with you. I grew up scouting in Alaska and as an old man I can still see in my mind's eye learning to canoe on Blue lake; learning to cook in the outdoors; reciting the scout oath and law; hiking 50 miles; camping out when it was 30 below; reading Outdoor Life; fishing with my friends; earning merit badges by the bunches at camp.  I saw our son grow up in scouting with great leaders and get his Eagle.

Somewhere along the way the value of helping boys learn to appreciate the outdoors, wake up to a breakfast made on a campfire; and hiking in the cool of the evening.  Another chapter of innocence is closed as society focuses on a concrete world of consumerism. 

I have seen nothing, and I doubt I will see anything, that says the boys can't still learn those things.  What I have seen of scouting when it has been run well and when it has not, as a sister and mom of scouts, as the daughter of a great scout leader and as a den leader myself is that while scouting has some great tools they do nothing for those that don't care about the tools/calling and that there are other ways that are just as effective for specific boys and troops. 

I love what scouting was meant to do and what it can do. I do not love all the extra stuff. I do not love that most people through the program work (in my experience) for extrinsic rewards instead of intrinsic change.

So I am ok with people missing the program, but I am optimistic that the Lord will have a better plan

[mnn727]

13 hours ago, tulip said:

This should have happened when gays and transgender were let in.   The church lost its moral authority by staying with the crowd.  I stopped supporting Boy Scouts with their moral decay started.  It is embarrassing that the apostles just figured this out.

This was certainly not an overnight decision.

[bluebell]

22 minutes ago, Rain said:

I have seen nothing, and I doubt I will see anything, that says the boys can't still learn those things.  What I have seen of scouting when it has been run well and when it has not, as a sister and mom of scouts, as the daughter of a great scout leader and as a den leader myself is that while scouting has some great tools they do nothing for those that don't care about the tools/calling and that there are other ways that are just as effective for specific boys and troops. 

I love what scouting was meant to do and what it can do. I do not love all the extra stuff. I do not love that most people through the program work (in my experience) for extrinsic rewards instead of intrinsic change.

So I am ok with people missing the program, but I am optimistic that the Lord will have a better plan

I was thinking the same thing.

My husband was over the teachers quorum for a while, and they frequently went on camping trips even though they didn't do scouting activities anymore.  The young women can also have multiple camping opportunities throughout the year without being involved in scouts.

I'm sure that scouts makes it easier sometimes but there aren't many scouting activities that can't be done outside of scouts.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I think the church will wear its past association with scouting as a badge of honor just as they will also informally wear their disassociation on "moral grounds".

Gotta hand it to Pres. Nelson, he's a mover. He seems very pragmatic in his approach to church administration and not tied unduly to tradition. If it's not working, move on. That's a good thing IMO.

Next up- 2 hour block and civil marriages prior to temple sealings.

I would imagine that he and Pres. Oaks are great partners in this. It seems to me they may have been crafting their shared plan for restructuring church administration as partners for a while now. It's a smart, bold move.

I'm seeing a lot of posts on social media from people who are so excited that the church stood up against the scouts on moral grounds.  Seems like a win for the church from a PR perspective, they don't have to officially say anything about the reasons for the separation, but everyone can (wink wink) know the REAL reasons for the separation.  

As for Nelson and Oaks, its kind of refreshing to have some changes happening, but I wonder if after the dust settles what the overall direction of the church will look like.  Changes can sometimes be disruptive as well.  Ultimately what the church needs is vision and strategic leadership, and I think the jury is out about whether any of these changes will be a net positive for the direction of the church.  

Many members are so excited that these changes are evidence of inspiration, and so many seem absolutely giddy over the idea that God is directing these changes and this is some sign of vitality and inspiration happening in the church.  

Edited May 9, 2018 by hope_for_things

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, hope_for_things said:

Hey, now that the church is separating from the boy scouts, I wonder if the church will begin to re-write the history of its past relationship with the scouting organization?  Something like the way the church has disowned and fought against polygamy perhaps?   Will future histories be written where any mention of scouting is scrubbed from official Sunday School manuals?  Will President Monson's lifetime in the scouting program even make it into the future manuals about his teachings?   Will the church try to whitewash its history with scouting?  It will be fun to watch.  🙂  

You have a strange and disturbing fantasy life.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, california boy said:

Wouldn't that be like letting girls into the scouting program?  Oh the horrors.

They would get over it.

[mnn727]

3 hours ago, janderich said:

I was the Varsity Coach then the Young Men's President when the church did away with Varsity and Venturing. I was the High Priest Group leader until about a month ago when the church did away with the High Priest Group. I was just put in as the 11 Year Old Scout leader and have been rapidly getting up to speed only to hear that the church is parting ways with the Scouts.

Please get called as Sunday School President!

Edited May 9, 2018 by mnn727

[filovirus]

For me the scouting program was very influential in my teen years. I actually liked the program and enjoyed many aspects of it. In that regard I am sad to see it go.

However, I am glad that the church is finally distancing itself from boy scouts. A lot has changed globally in the past 30-40 years, perhaps faster than any other time up til now. I have always felt that the scouting program could not keep up with the changes, although it tried. Kids just aren't as interested with the draw of internet, social media, video games, changes in the way sporting programs work, etc. I feel the church can tailor a better program to reach the youth of today. A program that can adapt to the needs at a ward level. Can't wait to see what the church rolls out in a year and a half. Hopefully we get a preview mid 2019.

[Robert F. Smith]

14 hours ago, readstoomuch said:

......................... As I understand it, 30-40% of boys in the US in scouts were LDS. ........................

More like 17% are currently in BSA.  However, even after the severance of BSA from LDS programs, there will still be community-based Scout troops in most communities.  So any boy who wishes to can continue in the program.  I was in a large non-LDS troop as a boy and it was great fun.  Learned a lot, and continued through the Explorer program till age 18.

[toon]

5 hours ago, janderich said:

Unlike most people who post here I'm saddened to see that the church has parted ways with the Scouts. I suppose it was time with all the homosexual and transgender issues among other things.

I'm with you on being sad that the Church will be abandoning scouting. I believe it's a great program, but it at the same time, there were always some kids who didn't mesh with it, weren't interested in merit badges, scouting ranks and promotion, wearing an obsolete uniform, etc. But I also always thought that the Church's relatively lax approach to scouting (not as militaristic as in some non-LDS troops) helped and gave a place for at least some of those kids. The scouting program provided the Church with a solid framework that could then be taken and adapted to meets its need for a program that can accommodate all the young men in the Church and not just those who were gung-ho about formal scouting. I'm a little skeptical that the church will be able to replicate this framework.

I also don't get some members' consternation about the changes BSA had made with regard to gay scouts, gay leaders, and the inclusion of girls. How did these changes impact in any way a local LDS scouting unit's program? So a kid was gay and wanted to participate, hasn't that always been the case in an LDS troop? (The BSA change recognized a difference between orientation and behavior.) We had a gay kid in my troop back in the 70s, and there was no problem. When I was a scout leader in the early 2000s, one of the kids was gay, and again, no problem. Even now, a church member who is gay can be ordained into the priesthood and participate in scouts, and I suspect that will be the case with whatever replacement program comes up. So why is this an issue?

With regard to allowing gay leaders, BSA was clear that they would not require the LDS church to do that. So that change didn't impact LDS scouting. Same thing will allowing girl troops, as nothing in the recent decision would have required any boy only troop such as an LDS troop to include girls.

I'm willing to take the church at its word when it states that the underlying reason is because it has become a more international church, and that it would prefer a program that can be implemented church wide as opposed to one that only applies to youth in the US. I suspect that the BSA's increasing inclusiveness had little to do with this, as it really didn't impact the Church's program. And it's disappointing to see people here and elsewhere applauding the action because they were upset with what they perceived to be a less bigoted BSA.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by toon

[Tacenda]

I can just see it now, those who were into scouting big time, such as many males in my extended family, will start blaming or hating on all the gays, transgender out there for the church leaving the BSA organization.

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

More like 17% are currently in BSA.  However, even after the severance of BSA from LDS programs, there will still be community-based Scout troops in most communities.  So any boy who wishes to can continue in the program.  I was in a large non-LDS troop as a boy and it was great fun.  Learned a lot, and continued through the Explorer program till age 18.

The impact felt will be more financial and disproportionate intensity and leadership, not raw numbers. Mandatory chartering fees paid by the stakes for all those active and inactive/attending and non-attending boys, FOS, Scouting pyramid scheme racket money (badges, uniforms, camp fees), etc. And, unlike other churches, we made Scouting our "activity arm" for boys. The loss of the church will leave a gaping hole that won't even begin to be filled by whatever girls participate in the coming years. 

[toon]

4 hours ago, california boy said:

And people wonder why gays don't feel welcome in the Mormon church.  This is what I feel like every time I have attended the church in the past 10 years.  Evidently liberals are not all that welcomed as well.

What's odd is that, as I posted above, none of the BSA moves toward greater inclusiveness have impacted LDS scouting. The Church has full control over who it appoints as scouting leaders, and it doesn't have to include girls in its scouting program. It while it may have to allow a gay kid to participate, isn't that already consistent with the Church at least claims to teach and practice? If the Church will not preclude a kid from priesthood ordination, baptism for the dead, passing or preparing or blessing the sacrament based on orientation alone, why would the exclude him from scouts?

As much as some like to think that the sky is falling, I suspect that if you were to look at any LDS troop today, you'd find that it's not that different from what an LDS troop would have looked like, 10, 20, 30, 40 or more years ago.

Edited May 9, 2018 by toon

[Scott Lloyd]

11 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

Am I the only one disappointed? I've been involved in scouting since i was a cub before I knew the Church has anything to do with it. I know this has been coming a while with the changes with the BSA and with the Church needing a moral unified global program, but it's still sad. And it's sad to watch an organization I truly love falling apart

I grieve for the loss of the Scouting of yesteryear, not so much for the disconnect from what it has become.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Scott Lloyd

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

More like 17% are currently in BSA.  However, even after the severance of BSA from LDS programs, there will still be community-based Scout troops in most communities.  So any boy who wishes to can continue in the program.  I was in a large non-LDS troop as a boy and it was great fun.  Learned a lot, and continued through the Explorer program till age 18.

I think that for boys who truly enjoy scouting, non-LDS troops are the way to go.  Then they can be in a troop that is going to continue to function and support them after they turn 14.

[hope_for_things]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

You have a strange and disturbing fantasy life.

I'm trying to take a page out of your dark humor book.  My delivery might not be great, but I have a long ways to catch up.  

[The Nehor]

Friends of Scouting 5th Sunday Fundraiser in 2019:

”We did not actually get any donation envelopes because we figured no one would use them but if you want to contribute they have a website or something I think. Just Google it or something. It is a wonderful thing to support and blah, blah, okay no one is buying this. I say these things in the name of.....yeah.....gotta avoid blasphemy. I am done. Please don’t say amen.”

Edited May 9, 2018 by The Nehor