Scott Lloyd Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Gray said: The Wikipedia summary made it sound like a serious of unsuccessful ventures, including the real estate stuff. I just looked at the Wikipedia entry, which appears to be summarized in part from the Kathleen Lubeck article in the Ensign magazine that I initially consulted. I didn't get the impression from either source that he suffered a string of successive failures lasting up until his call to be a General Authority.
rongo Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 I'm glad the Church wasn't mentioned in this article: http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/national/boy-scouts-lobby-in-new-york-other-states-to-stem-the-flow-of-child-abuse-lawsuits-20180509 BSA is really reeling financially right now. Even though the Mormon Exodus won't actually happen until 2020. They will still get one more year of chartering fees. I'll bet FOS has all but dried up, even though we got a letter from Elder Uceda urging us to not abandon the FOS drive. In my ward for the last two years now, we have simply announced it over the pulpit twice. No one has donated.
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 3 hours ago, pogi said: Even worse is planning and preparing for a camp-out, reserving and paying for a campground, planning meals and purchasing food, ... and only having one other leader show up...no boys...ever...showed...up!!! This happened to me 2 times! The solution to this is in the quorum structure. It's the quorum presidency who should plan and prepare for a camp, reserve and pay for the campground (with adult assistance), plan meals and purchase food (again with adult assistance). When we finally got our quorum presidencies trained and functioning in our ward, we never again had boys not show. This was true for temple trips, mutual activities, camps, etc. 2
pogi Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The solution to this is in the quorum structure. It's the quorum presidency who should plan and prepare for a camp, reserve and pay for the campground (with adult assistance), plan meals and purchase food (again with adult assistance). When we finally got our quorum presidencies trained and functioning in our ward, we never again had boys not show. This was true for temple trips, mutual activities, camps, etc. These boys were involved in planning the camp out, the meals, and shopped for the food as a group at the same time we got their fishing licences (something they expressed interest in). Currently, we only have 4 active boys (that includes deacons, teachers, and priests), and two of them are autistic, so we have never had a full, functioning deacons quorum presidency.
ALarson Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 37 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: The solution to this is in the quorum structure. It's the quorum presidency who should plan and prepare for a camp, reserve and pay for the campground (with adult assistance), plan meals and purchase food (again with adult assistance). When we finally got our quorum presidencies trained and functioning in our ward, we never again had boys not show. This was true for temple trips, mutual activities, camps, etc. Never? I swear Hamba you must have the most perfect ward on earth Just teasing a bit... Actually those ideas and implementations are excellent, IMO.
Gray Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said: I just looked at the Wikipedia entry, which appears to be summarized in part from the Kathleen Lubeck article in the Ensign magazine that I initially consulted. I didn't get the impression from either source that he suffered a string of successive failures lasting up until his call to be a General Authority. Quote During the late 1950s, Ballard was recruited by the Ford Motor Company to become the first Edsel car dealer for Salt Lake City. After praying for guidance, he had the "clear impression" not to sign the franchise. He did anyway and incurred a huge loss, "without doubt the darkest period" of his business career.[7] One highlight of his business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building.[8][9] Edited May 9, 2018 by Gray
Hamba Tuhan Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 20 minutes ago, pogi said: These boys were involved in planning the camp out, the meals, and shopped for the food as a group at the same time we got their fishing licences (something they expressed interest in). They were involved in planning the camp, or they planned the camp? Quote Currently, we only have 4 active boys (that includes deacons, teachers, and priests), and two of them are autistic, so we have never had a full, functioning deacons quorum presidency. When I was called as YM president, we had one active boy. As I had been instructed by the 1st counsellor in the YM Genereral Presidency, one boy makes a quorum. So he was called as quorum president. It took us two years to train him right, but by the time he was teachers quorum president, he finally understood ministering and started visiting the homes of other boys. Four years later, when he was 18, we averaged 40-50 boys at mutual each week. Hang in there. It gets better! 1
Gray Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 1 hour ago, hope_for_things said: Good point, but I think age would be a problem for many of them. You typically don't see 75+ yr old people in the workforce these days. True. But, they might have had a bigger nest egg had they pursued their careers until retirement.
Scott Lloyd Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Gray said: During the late 1950s, Ballard was recruited by the Ford Motor Company to become the first Edsel car dealer for Salt Lake City. After praying for guidance, he had the "clear impression" not to sign the franchise. He did anyway and incurred a huge loss, "without doubt the darkest period" of his business career.[7] One highlight of his business career was his presidency of the Valley Music Hall in Bountiful, Utah, which offered family entertainment. There Ballard worked with Art Linkletter, Danny Thomas, Bob Cummings, and other Hollywood celebrities who were advisers to the enterprise. Although the music hall failed financially, investors recovered their money when the LDS Church purchased the building.[8][9] This identifies two incidents out of an entire career in business. Nothing here to indicate successive failures or even predominant failure. Again, I'm at a loss as to why you would infer that from this source. Edited May 10, 2018 by Scott Lloyd
Kenngo1969 Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 2 hours ago, Gray said: The Wikipedia summary made it sound like a serious of unsuccessful ventures, including the real estate stuff. Well, if Wikipedia sez it ... You know, the really nice thing about Wikipedia is that even though there are a lot of unbalanced, biased sources out there promulgated by people and organizations who have axes to grind, Wikipedia, as a totally balanced, unbiased, fair, objective source of info ... Oh, wait. Sorry. My bad. Carry on!
Kenngo1969 Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 (edited) Good point, but I think age would be a problem for many of them. You typically don't see 75+ yr old people in the workforce these days. I don't know what workforce you belong to, but, whether from boredom, from necessity, for some other reason, or from some combination of reasons, while the workforce at my current place of employment does skew younger ... college-age young men and women (I almost called them "kids," but they're not baby goats) ... a not-inconsiderable proportion of it is made up of older folks. Edited May 9, 2018 by Kenngo1969
Scott Lloyd Posted May 9, 2018 Posted May 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, if Wikipedia sez it ... You know, the really nice thing about Wikipedia is that even though there are a lot of unbalanced, biased sources out there promulgated by people and organizations who have axes to grind, Wikipedia, as a totally balanced, unbiased, fair, objective source of info ... Oh, wait. Sorry. My bad. Carry on! Point taken. The problem in this instance, though, seems to be Gray's own mistaken inference about what the Wikipedia entry does or does not say.
hope_for_things Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 57 minutes ago, Gray said: True. But, they might have had a bigger nest egg had they pursued their careers until retirement. Yes, possibly, but if someone would have retired at 65 on average from their profession, and let’s say that person lives until 90, that 25 years of additional 6 figure annual income can add up to quite a bit. We could run some scenarios to compare, but I’m not all together sure the money sacrificed is greater than the money gained in these situations.
ALarson Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said: I just looked at the Wikipedia entry, which appears to be summarized in part from the Kathleen Lubeck article in the Ensign magazine that I initially consulted. I didn't get the impression from either source that he suffered a string of successive failures lasting up until his call to be a General Authority. IIRC, he was also involved in some of the questionable dealings regarding Paul Dunn (and Jose Riffo). It's been awhile since I read about that, but it wasn't good from what I remember.
mfbukowski Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, toon said: Does that meant that BSA, with all the changes it has made, is guided by revelation? Other institution that have changed and, thus, are guided by revelation -- both the Democratic and Republican parties. My friend who had gender reassignment surgery, personal revelation? Your avatar name is appropriate. Context dude, context. Ask your friend if it was revelation, not me. The only other person who would know that is God. Since you take everything literally I suppose that means the Earth is 6000 years old. I don't believe that.
mfbukowski Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, if Wikipedia sez it ... You know, the really nice thing about Wikipedia is that even though there are a lot of unbalanced, biased sources out there promulgated by people and organizations who have axes to grind, Wikipedia, as a totally balanced, unbiased, fair, objective source of info ... Oh, wait. Sorry. My bad. Carry on! All sources are biased and unbalanced and have an axe to grind. I like Wikipedia because it's the only one that doesn't pretend otherwise. 😎 Edited May 10, 2018 by mfbukowski 1
mfbukowski Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: It seems overly simplistic to me to characterize President Ballard's career as "car dealer." In addition to the family-owned dealership, he was involved in real estate and a number of other business investments. Some succeeded and some didn't. It's not clear to me that he "wasn't particularly successful." You mean he wasn't out standing in front of a dealership waiting to sell somebody a used Chevy? At least that's one way to be outstanding.
Popular Post bsjkki Posted May 10, 2018 Popular Post Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: They were involved in planning the camp, or they planned the camp? When I was called as YM president, we had one active boy. As I had been instructed by the 1st counsellor in the YM Genereral Presidency, one boy makes a quorum. So he was called as quorum president. It took us two years to train him right, but by the time he was teachers quorum president, he finally understood ministering and started visiting the homes of other boys. Four years later, when he was 18, we averaged 40-50 boys at mutual each week. Hang in there. It gets better! What area in the world do you live that your quorum can grow by 40-50 boys? We had small youth group and the Stake would tell us it would get better (lay on a heavy guilt trip that if we were just more faithful, we would grow)...but demographics were not on our side and no, it did not get better. 4 hours ago, pogi said: These boys were involved in planning the camp out, the meals, and shopped for the food as a group at the same time we got their fishing licences (something they expressed interest in). Currently, we only have 4 active boys (that includes deacons, teachers, and priests), and two of them are autistic, so we have never had a full, functioning deacons quorum presidency. Thank you for your service and trying so hard! Kids these days are very busy. I remember being so frustrated when we were really small. The Beehive presidency would plan activities and the girls would be on board and then their parents would ground them or not let them come because of homework etc...it was discouraging. I also appreciate your patience working with two autistic boys! That is a special challenge and they are capable of so much and respond well to loving, dedicated leaders. My autistic daughter refuses to camp with us. She hates camping. She can not stand being out of her safe spaces so that might be part of the challenge. The outhouse thing just completely freaks her out. I am incredibly excited for these upcoming changes! I am excited for the church to save money and use it's resources more efficiently. I am excited to see what the new programs are! I am excited for new guidelines for Young Women and Activity Day girls! I am excited the Cub Scout program will not take 2/3rds of the Primary budget! We live in exciting times! Edited May 10, 2018 by bsjkki 5
Calm Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) Quote The outhouse thing just completely freaks her out. The outhouse thing freaks me out. Give me a tree and bushes any time (I will take getting caught over those smells in the dark any day). Edited May 10, 2018 by Calm 2
JulieM Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: They were involved in planning the camp, or they planned the camp? When I was called as YM president, we had one active boy. As I had been instructed by the 1st counsellor in the YM Genereral Presidency, one boy makes a quorum. So he was called as quorum president. It took us two years to train him right, but by the time he was teachers quorum president, he finally understood ministering and started visiting the homes of other boys. Four years later, when he was 18, we averaged 40-50 boys at mutual each week. Averaged 40-50 boys a week from only having one boy active? How many inactive boys did you have in your ward if that’s an average? That’s a huge number to activate! Edited May 10, 2018 by JulieM
Calm Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 1 hour ago, JulieM said: Averaged 40-50 boys a week from only having one boy active? How many inactive boys did you have in your ward if that’s an average? That’s a huge number to activate! Good chance a lot of them are nonmembers, I am guessing, invited by their member friends.
Gray Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 (edited) 4 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: This identifies two incidents out of an entire career in business. Nothing here to indicate successive failures or even predominant failure. Again, I'm at a loss as to why you would infer that from this source. Again, just basing it on the material in the summary, which shows two significant failures in business prior to his church calling. If you have a more detailed report I'm sure many would be interested in it. Edited May 10, 2018 by Gray
Avatar4321 Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 12 hours ago, mnn727 said: Please get called as Sunday School President! Why? I love Sunday school when I can make it
Gray Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said: Well, if Wikipedia sez it ... You know, the really nice thing about Wikipedia is that even though there are a lot of unbalanced, biased sources out there promulgated by people and organizations who have axes to grind, Wikipedia, as a totally balanced, unbiased, fair, objective source of info ... Oh, wait. Sorry. My bad. Carry on! If you have something better, by all means share.
Gray Posted May 10, 2018 Posted May 10, 2018 7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said: It seems overly simplistic to me to characterize President Ballard's career as "car dealer." In addition to the family-owned dealership, he was involved in real estate and a number of other business investments. Some succeeded and some didn't. It's not clear to me that he "wasn't particularly successful." Which real estate and other investments were successful?
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