Home/Visiting Teaching to be discontinued

[2PairsofCletes]

Eh, to be honest, I don't think this kind of change in name and emphasis will make a big difference in the big picture. Do any of you?

[2PairsofCletes]

On 3/17/2018 at 11:26 AM, Jeanne said:

Same difference...I like visiting friends myself. Just don't come to visit unless you really want to..and if you want to be a friend..and not a checkmark in a box.

I agree completely. I don't think there will be much change in attitude even though the title of the program has been changed. 

[Kenngo1969]

There won't be much of a change in attitude ... unless and until I change my attitude.   I can encourage other people to change their attitudes, I can suggest ways to bring such a change about, but, beyond that, the only thing I control is me.  

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

I don't think there will be much change in attitude even though the title of the program has been changed. 

As Ken has noted, that's a choice that people get to make. But if it helps a few Saints who currently don't get it to re-evaluate their roles as ministers (and the covenants they've made to be such) and choose to be engaged, then all the better!

I attended a regional priesthood leadership training meeting with Elder Bednar four years ago. In the Q&A, an elders quorum president asked for advice on what he should say to the men in his quorum who claimed that they were too busy or whatever to minister to their assigned home teaching families. Elder Bednar said, 'They won't like it, but you are obligated to tell them the truth. Tell them that, whether it takes two years or 20 years, none of them will remain in the Church. Being actively engaged in the work of salvation is an absolute necessity to knowing that this work is of God. Over time, we are going to lose everyone else. So tell them that when they choose not to care, they have really just chosen to leave the Church'.

[2PairsofCletes]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There won't be much of a change in attitude ... unless and until I change my attitude.   I can encourage other people to change their attitudes, I can suggest ways to bring such a change about, but, beyond that, the only thing I control is me.  

Agreed. That is why for the most part, this "new" program will pretty much be like the "old" program. 

[2PairsofCletes]

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

As Ken has noted, that's a choice that people get to make. But if it helps a few Saints who currently don't get it to re-evaluate their roles as ministers (and the covenants they've made to be such) and choose to be engaged, then all the better!

I attended a regional priesthood leadership training meeting with Elder Bednar four years ago. In the Q&A, an elders quorum president asked for advice on what he should say to the men in his quorum who claimed that they were too busy or whatever to minister to their assigned home teaching families. Elder Bednar said, 'They won't like it, but you are obligated to tell them the truth. Tell them that, whether it takes two years or 20 years, none of them will remain in the Church. Being actively engaged in the work of salvation is an absolute necessity to knowing that this work is of God. Over time, we are going to lose everyone else. So tell them that when they choose not to care, they have really just chosen to leave the Church'.

So, essentially, this is a way of getting rid of the dead wood in the Church? A separating the goats from the sheep? Nice (sarcasm)

[The Nehor]

32 minutes ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

So, essentially, this is a way of getting rid of the dead wood in the Church? A separating the goats from the sheep? Nice (sarcasm)

Well, we have to separate them out somehow.

[Hamba Tuhan]

1 hour ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

So, essentially, this is a way of getting rid of the dead wood in the Church? A separating the goats from the sheep?

Nope. The goats separate themselves. Our efforts are designed to invite the goats to join the sheep. As they do so, two lots of people are helped: those who are ministered to and those who do the ministering.

Elder Bednar expressed no satisfaction whatsoever over the loss of the lukewarm. He simply pointed out that we live in times when it is increasingly difficult for the disengaged to remain. Merely going through the motions is exhausting ... and opens people up to those who delight in peddling 'troubling issues'.

Meanwhile, those who are actively engaged in the work of salvation are like Jacob in his encounter with Sherem:

Quote

And he had hope to shake me from the faith, notwithstanding the many revelations and the many things which I had seen concerning these things; for I truly had seen angels, and they had ministered unto me. And also, I had heard the voice of the Lord speaking unto me in very word, from time to time; wherefore, I could not be shaken.

I have observed this 'sifting' intensifying in my current ward. The engaged are going from strength to strength. Talking to them is a joy; they always have experiences to share, revelations to relate, etc. Meanwhile the disengaged look increasingly mystified by what everyone else is talking about, they seem worn out and sometimes even cynical, and they certainly have nothing substantial to add to class discussions.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Kenngo1969]

5 hours ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

Eh, to be honest, I don't think this kind of change in name and emphasis will make a big difference in the big picture. Do any of you?

 

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

There won't be much of a change in attitude ... unless and until I change my attitude.   I can encourage other people to change their attitudes, I can suggest ways to bring such a change about, but, beyond that, the only thing I control is me.  

 

57 minutes ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

Agreed. That is why for the most part, this "new" program will pretty much be like the "old" program. 

Perhaps.  To the extent that anyone looks to an external force or a magical new "program" to change him, he's apt to be disappointed.  On the other hand, to the extent that he realizes that he has the power to be the change he seeks, then he will be changed.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Kenngo1969

[strappinglad]

Clarify for me again, are we the sheep  or the goats?

[Hamba Tuhan]

50 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Clarify for me again, are we the sheep  or the goats?

You choose.

[Rain]

7 hours ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

Eh, to be honest, I don't think this kind of change in name and emphasis will make a big difference in the big picture. Do any of you?

I don't think it makes a difference in the big picture. Home and visiting teaching has always meant ministering to me. I do think that for some they will start to understand that better.

I know for my companion that has been the case. She has prayed more fervently over the needs of the sisters to know what she can do. 

2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Nope. The goats separate themselves. Our efforts are designed to invite the goats to join the sheep. As they do so, two lots of people are helped: those who are ministered to and those who do the ministering.

Elder Bednar expressed no satisfaction whatsoever over the loss of the lukewarm. He simply pointed out that we live in times when it is increasingly difficult for the disengaged to remain. Merely going through the motions is exhausting ... and opens people up to those who delight in peddling 'troubling issues'.

Meanwhile, those who are actively engaged in the work of salvation are like Jacob in his encounter with Sherem:

I have observed this 'sifting' intensifying in my current ward. The engaged are going from strength to strength. Talking to them is a joy; they always have experiences to share, revelations to relate, etc. Meanwhile the disengaged look increasingly mystified by what everyone else is talking about, they seem worn out and sometimes even cynical, and they certainly have nothing substantial to add to class discussions.

I have been reading his book, "Increase in Learning". He talks about how knowledge (learning in our mind) and understanding (learning in our heart) need to be followed by action and that becomes intelligence. Intelligence is a changed nature, the nature of God. He talks strongly that some wait to be acted upon, but that doesn't change you. You MUST act to be changed.

47 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Clarify for me again, are we the sheep  or the goats?

That is up to each of us individually.

My husband, whose dad had a sheep farm, had a goat when he was little who watched out for him. Before his dad sold the farm I saw the goats one day. There was a big pile of manure in the middle of the field. One sheep started going around it and the rest followed around and around. Now we both think that maybe we really don't want to be sheep because they are not the brightest animals! It does really emphasize how much we need the Savior though.

[sunstoned]

3 hours ago, 2PairsofCletes said:

So, essentially, this is a way of getting rid of the dead wood in the Church? A separating the goats from the sheep? Nice (sarcasm)

Does anyone know if GAs home teach?

[Rain]

19 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Does anyone know if GAs home teach?

A seventy HT my parents and one of my children got a blessing from him when I was at their home.

[Hamba Tuhan]

25 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Does anyone know if GAs home teach?

Whenever a general or area authority visits our stake (several times a year), the bulk of his time is spent visiting people in their homes, selected by the stake president and/or bishops and accompanied by the home teachers.

[bluebell]

48 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

Does anyone know if GAs home teach?

My friend has a 70 in her ward and she said he does. 

I’m guessing that Apostles, who are always ministering but not often in their own ward, don’t have HT routes. 

Edited March 19, 2018 by bluebell

[stemelbow]

We piloted what appears to be the new program for home teaching for a few years in our stake.  It seemed to work just as well as home teaching.  This is how it was done:

The EQ and HPGL decided the level of engagement each family or person needed from a home teacher.  So less active members would have a high need for visits.  Active, participating members need less.  The most frequent needed was once per month.  The least would be twice per year.  

Assignments would be made.  

HTers were not to go to teach a lesson, necessarily, although they could if they felt they needed to.  We, as HTers, were to focus less on meeting the visits in the home requirement, less on teaching the gospel, and more on being friends and engaging with the people in whatever way or sphere was comfortable for them.  If they didn't like Church and liked golfing, we were encouraged to take up golfing and go with them.  Or as our SP offered as an example, if the man of the house was a big Harley Davidson lover, then you could buy one yourself although that is unreasonable for most people, but if not, you should read up on it and understand his interest.  If he's out working on his bike you should get familiar enough to either help, or to converse about what he's up to.  The examples discussed for the pilot all involved the man home teachers becoming best buddies with the man of the house.  If no man of the house, then it was difficult to know what to do, which was a weakness of the pilot, IMO.  

Most definitely though, most men, didn't know what to do.  It was unreasonable to just take up golfing, but that was our instruction.  Some simply don't like it, and can't afford it.  It failed much like the regular home teaching tends to do.  Men HTers lost interest in keeping up with various others in the ward boundaries.  They were to focus their attention on the less active, but often were unable in any sensible way to connect with the less active families.  They most often kept their friends as before, who were most often other active men and families.  There was certainly no big difference in terms of activity, or interest.  And, as someone who was in the EQpresidency during this time, I tend to think the Home teachers took the program less seriously than the regular home teaching program, probably because as a pilot they didn't see it as important and understood it was temporary.

[Gray]

16 minutes ago, stemelbow said:

We piloted what appears to be the new program for home teaching for a few years in our stake.  It seemed to work just as well as home teaching.  This is how it was done:

The EQ and HPGL decided the level of engagement each family or person needed from a home teacher.  So less active members would have a high need for visits.  Active, participating members need less.  The most frequent needed was once per month.  The least would be twice per year.  

Assignments would be made.  

HTers were not to go to teach a lesson, necessarily, although they could if they felt they needed to.  We, as HTers, were to focus less on meeting the visits in the home requirement, less on teaching the gospel, and more on being friends and engaging with the people in whatever way or sphere was comfortable for them.  If they didn't like Church and liked golfing, we were encouraged to take up golfing and go with them.  Or as our SP offered as an example, if the man of the house was a big Harley Davidson lover, then you could buy one yourself although that is unreasonable for most people, but if not, you should read up on it and understand his interest.  If he's out working on his bike you should get familiar enough to either help, or to converse about what he's up to.  The examples discussed for the pilot all involved the man home teachers becoming best buddies with the man of the house.  If no man of the house, then it was difficult to know what to do, which was a weakness of the pilot, IMO.  

Most definitely though, most men, didn't know what to do.  It was unreasonable to just take up golfing, but that was our instruction.  Some simply don't like it, and can't afford it.  It failed much like the regular home teaching tends to do.  Men HTers lost interest in keeping up with various others in the ward boundaries.  They were to focus their attention on the less active, but often were unable in any sensible way to connect with the less active families.  They most often kept their friends as before, who were most often other active men and families.  There was certainly no big difference in terms of activity, or interest.  And, as someone who was in the EQpresidency during this time, I tend to think the Home teachers took the program less seriously than the regular home teaching program, probably because as a pilot they didn't see it as important and understood it was temporary.

Hmm, interesting idea. I'd say actually taking up the assigned person's interests is going too far. That's going to ring false anyway. You can't make friends by assignment. But I do like the idea of setting level of engagement by level of need.

[jkwilliams]

On 3/17/2018 at 2:13 AM, Bernard Gui said:

A rose by any other name............

... would still get done on the last day of the month. 

[provoman]

On 3/16/2018 at 7:02 PM, FearlessFixxer said:

This is not a rumor.  we have multiple sources and have reviewed internal memos that cannot be shared because they would compromise the sources.  

For what it is worth, Channel 2 news in Utah convered this change briefly Saturday night.

[bluebell]

2 hours ago, Gray said:

Hmm, interesting idea. I'd say actually taking up the assigned person's interests is going too far. That's going to ring false anyway. You can't make friends by assignment. But I do like the idea of setting level of engagement by level of need.

Taking up someone else's interest isn't really realistic, but finding out about it and being able to talk about it a bit isn't asking that much and, in the age of google, is pretty easy.  I also like the idea of setting different levels of engagement. I would love that because i don't really like having my HT over once a month.  I like them personally but I just don't enjoy having another appointment during the month that I don't see a reason for.

If the change really is based on the pilot program that Stem mentioned, then other wards must have had more success with it, otherwise they probably wouldn't be implementing it world wide (if that's actually what's happening).  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

[Kenngo1969]

14 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Clarify for me again, are we the sheep  or the goats?

Yes.  

[rongo]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

If the change really is based on the pilot program that Stem mentioned, then other wards must have had more success with it, otherwise they probably wouldn't be implementing it world wide (if that's actually what's happening).  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I don't think there is a direct correlation between pilot program success and eventual implementation in the Church. Not in my experience, anyway.

I wonder if the changes include eliminating reporting? That, to me, would be a lot more monumental than a name change (in favor of a buzzword-sounding direction) or loosening of "accepted activities" (actual visits with lessons, actual visits period, texting, calling, writing a note, doing activities with, etc.). Eliminating reporting would represent a major shift in the Church's historical direction in favor of "teach correct principles and let them govern themselves." 

It's like the buzzword-named "Just Serve" (sorry, Rain!  ). You would think the focus would be on getting members to "just serve," but you would be wrong. The Church emphasizes service that is trackable and brings attention to the Church --- kind of the opposite of "verily I say unto you, they have their reward."  

I think of President Packer's counsel in 1990 that the most important things are not able to be reported on at all. He mentioned this in response to pressure to create a General Board on the Family, coupled with adding reporting on parent PPIs with children, family prayer and scripture study frequency, etc. He said "The very thought sends chills of horror down my spine!", and said that the most important things should not be tracked or reported. 

Perhaps home/visiting teaching belongs in this boat, but I would be stunned if the current Church administration went in that direction. Hope springs eternal, though.  

[Gray]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Taking up someone else's interest isn't really realistic, but finding out about it and being able to talk about it a bit isn't asking that much and, in the age of google, is pretty easy.  I also like the idea of setting different levels of engagement. I would love that because i don't really like having my HT over once a month.  I like them personally but I just don't enjoy having another appointment during the month that I don't see a reason for.

If the change really is based on the pilot program that Stem mentioned, then other wards must have had more success with it, otherwise they probably wouldn't be implementing it world wide (if that's actually what's happening).  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

Yes, I agree - it's definitely reasonable for VTs/HTs to at least get informed on the person's interests.

We'd probably be okay with one HT visit per year, which is probably what we're actually getting, on average.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Gray

[HappyJackWagon]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Taking up someone else's interest isn't really realistic, but finding out about it and being able to talk about it a bit isn't asking that much and, in the age of google, is pretty easy.  I also like the idea of setting different levels of engagement. I would love that because i don't really like having my HT over once a month.  I like them personally but I just don't enjoy having another appointment during the month that I don't see a reason for.

If the change really is based on the pilot program that Stem mentioned, then other wards must have had more success with it, otherwise they probably wouldn't be implementing it world wide (if that's actually what's happening).  It'll be interesting to see how it all plays out.

I think home and visiting teaching are great concepts, but I totally agree.

I have a very nice, older man as a home teacher. He tries super hard to visit every month even though I've told him that once a quarter would be fine. As a parent with 4 very active teens it is hard to make time for what turns into an hour long visit each month. I like him, but I don't really appreciate the visit. If I'm more forceful about asking him to back off it merely hurts a relationship. I hope this new program can be responsive, not only to what the HPGL thinks is the appropriate level of interaction, but also considers what the family wants.

Home teaching has often been used as a mentoring program for young men and I wonder if this will have any impact, or maybe each companionship will still have the same number of visits each month with a much larger pool of assigned families. It will be interesting to see.