pogi Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, Calm said: "the most privileged of all - young white people (millennials)." CFR this is true...generally speaking, it seems to me like their parents have more money to spend, more security. Parents aren't generally moving in with their kids because they can't afford to live independently, but the reverse. First, I am not using the word "privileged" in a demeaning way at all. I am simply pointing this out from the logical standpoint that if the world, in general, is more privileged then ever before (as seems to be the consensus here), then the children of this generation must be the most privileged children of all time (I know that we are not children any more - yes, I am a millennial...practically - 1979). With the internet, millennials have more privileges at their finger tips then any previous generation had. There is nothing inherently wrong with being privileged and blessed with a higher standard of living. Can anyone think of a generation that has had a more comfortable standard of living? While white males have historically been the most privileged, white females have never been more privileged then the millennial generation. But that privilege is spreading out to other minority groups as well. The parents of millennials certainly have more money to spend and more security, but that is only because they are older, have been working longer, and have more savings and investments. But when compared to what previous generations had at the same age, millennials have "significantly higher disposable incomes than previous generations". Here is the full quote from economist.com: Quote Today’s young adults have a significantly higher disposable income than previous generations had at the same age. OECD citizens now in their early 30s have 7% more than members of Generation X had at that age and over 40% more than boomers enjoyed when they were similarly short in the tooth (see chart). Youngsters may sigh with impatience when an old codger tells them how life was tougher “when I was your age”. But it was. This millennial privilege is, however, smaller in America, which tends to set the tone for the generation wars. https://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21730674-gap-closing-millennials-are-doing-better-baby-boomers-did Millennials themselves seem to agree: Quote ...when we asked the survey respondents what three words they thought best describe millennials, "entitled" was the most common word suggested by those born between 1980 and 2000. The article goes on to explain why this might be the case. Obviously there are some different interpretations of the word "entitled", and in one sense, entitlement might not be such a bad thing: Quote many view entitlement as the right to go after big goals and aim high — without asking for permission from gatekeepers and authority figures. Quote It turns out entitlement pays. Consider this 1985 study, titled Overworked and underpaid: On the nature of gender differences in personal entitlement. In the study, women typically had lower feelings of personal entitlement than the male participants. Thus, when asked how much to pay themselves for a specific assignment, women tended to choose an amount less than the men, who performed worse than the women on the same assignment but felt they deserved more money. The study highlighted how a lack of entitlement could explain the gender pay gap. By increasing their levels of personal entitlement, millennials might finally help close it. Quote The attitudes toward authority could also explain the "entitled" label. With the internet at their fingertips, millennials of all ages could feel entitled to practically anything — an answer, a movie, a meal — on demand. The question of whether they've earned it? Maybe it's just irrelevant. It's a good article, worth reading. https://www.philanthropyforamerica.org/single-post/2017/01/27/Everyone-Thinks-Millennials-Are-Entitled-—-Even-Millennials My main point was to comment on the interesting correlation between privilege (standard of living) and religiosity vs. atheism/agnosticism. It seems to mirror what we see in the Book of Mormon. Edited March 15, 2018 by pogi 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 23 hours ago, sunstoned said: I believe that right now, this very minute is the best time to be alive in the history of the planet. Things are far from perfect, and there is still war, hunger, disease and oppression. But it is better than it use to be. Christians are not being fed to the lions, minorities are not being lynched in the deep south, typhoid, polio, smallpox, malaria and other diseases that use to kill millions have been all be eradicated. In the West, women and minorities are beginning to be treated as equals, and poverty is down. The Gospel Principles teaches "Many of the signs are terrifying and dreadful. The prophets have warned that the earth will experience great turmoil, wickedness, war, and suffering. The prophet Daniel said that the time before the Second Coming would be a time of trouble such as the earth has never known (see Daniel 12:1). The Lord said, “The love of men shall wax cold, and iniquity shall abound” (D&C 45:27). “And all things shall be in commotion; and … fear shall come upon all people” (D&C 88:91). We can expect earthquakes, disease, famines, great storms, lightnings, and thunder (see Matthew 24:7; D&C 88:90). Hailstorms will destroy the crops of the earth (see D&C 29:16). Jesus told His disciples that war would fill the earth: “Ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. … For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom” (Matthew 24:6–7). The Prophet Joseph Smith said: “Be not discouraged when we tell you of perilous times, for they must shortly come, for the sword, famine, and pestilence are approaching. There shall be great destructions upon the face of this land, for ye need not suppose that one jot or tittle of the prophecies of all the holy prophets shall fail, and there are many that remain to be fulfilled yet” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 252)." I believe the scriptures.
strappinglad Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 2 hours ago, sunstoned said: You mean when people marched for human rights? It takes action and brave people to facilitate change In Guatemala one day, several decades ago now, university students protested the government by sitting on the university entrance steps. Eventually 3 Army jeeps pulled up and backed in towards the students. The rear flaps opened to expose heavy machine guns. The Commander told the students they had 60 seconds to clear the area. At 10 seconds left the student began to leave. At ' times up ' the soldiers opened fire. Marching for a cause is only brave if it can be truly dangerous. 1
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 11 hours ago, cinepro said: But I tend to think along the lines of Sunstoned, and that by any objective measure, we're in the best days. But it's easy to get tunnel vision as a Mormon when we're told that it's really, really bad for people to look at naked pictures or videos of other naked people, or that there are certain things we just shouldn't do on Sunday. It's easy then to look at society and think things are terrible because people can now easily look at naked pictures of other people and lots of people do stuff that we think they shouldn't do on Sundays. It is really really bad to look at pornography.Pornography is very destructive. In Florida pornography is a health crisis and hopefully it becomes illegal in the near future. If looking at naked people is "normal" and "okay" then why do revenge porn laws exists? In New Jersey revenge porn is "punishable by three to five years in prison". It is okay to see pictures of clothed people. There is no such thing as revenge clothed pictures. It is okay to share pictures of clothed people, and there is no need for permission. I am sharing pictures without permission (just google Mormon pictures) and there is nothing wrong. We can't possibly say the same thing about pictures of naked people.
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 8 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Teenage pregnancy may be down but sexting is up. Exactly! It must stop immediately! Our country needs to declare porn a health crisis and make it illegal. 8 hours ago, JLHPROF said: Education and workplace opportunities for women are way up, Education is declining for men. Men are getting lazy
stemelbow Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 14 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: I think you're creating a classic false dichotomy. There is absolutely nothing contradictory or 'mixed' about acknowledging that we live in a time when wickedness and rebellion are rife and also acknowledging that we live in the dispensation of the fullness of times, when more people have access to more truth and live in more physical security and comfort than in any previous time. Note that Elder Uchtdorf counselled against exaggerating or dwelling upon the negatives. That's specifically where the 'doom and gloom' arise. As Saints, we should be hopeful and optimistic -- all stemming from our faith in Jesus Christ and in His plan. We should be grateful for all that is good, and we should daily labour to make things better for someone somewhere, including but certainly not limited to our own families. At the same time, it would be silly not to acknowledge the full spectrum of reality. For example, where I live, we are in the midst of what experts are calling a 'youth mental health crisis'. Our kids are well-fed, well-immuninsed, well-housed, and well-educated. They have, quite literally, a world of both information and entertainment at their fingertips. And I revel in all of this. And yet, we can't keep up with all the counselling and therapy and medication that it is taking to keep them from sinking into such despair and sense of purposelessness that they are often resorting to self-harm, including its most extreme form. Is this a mixed message? Or just reality? I'm not sure my examples were meant to express the best examples to show mixed messages, but I do think there clearly was some mixed messages inherent in them. When you say, "we live in a time when wickedness and rebellion are rife" what are you comparing it too? I'm curious what time was less wicked and rife with rebellion? I mean verifiably so less (referencing Enoch or something doesn't help because it was but one city, and it certainly only comes off as a mythical story rather than reality)? It seems to me claiming something like that is exaggeration on the face of it seeing as we can't possible know whether our time is more wicked nor more rebellious then it was any time before. I suppose we can have faith that it is though.
Marginal Gains Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I’m reasonably sure that there was a recent talk given (Conference?) about avoiding using scaremongering. I’m also reasonably sure that by a number of measures, the world has never been safer. 1
bsjkki Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said: I’m reasonably sure that there was a recent talk given (Conference?) about avoiding using scaremongering. I’m also reasonably sure that by a number of measures, the world has never been safer. I found this talk. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/10/fear-not-to-do-good?lang=eng It is full of great quotes! We cannot foresee the details, but we know the larger picture. We know that in the last days, the world will be in commotion. We know that in the midst of whatever trouble comes, the Lord will lead faithful Latter-day Saints to take the gospel of Jesus Christ to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. And we know that the Lord’s true disciples will be worthy and prepared to receive Him when He comes again. We need not fear. So, as much as we have already built faith and courage in our hearts, the Lord expects more from us—and from the generations after us. They will need to be stronger and braver because they will do even greater and harder things than we have done. And they will face increasing opposition from the enemy of our souls. The way to optimism as we go forward was given by the Lord: “Look unto me in every thought; doubt not, fear not” (D&C 6:36). President Monson told us how to do that. We are to ponder and apply the Book of Mormon and the words of prophets. Pray always. Be believing. Serve the Lord with all our heart, might, mind, and strength. We are to pray with all the energy of our hearts for the gift of charity, the pure love of Christ (see Moroni 7:47–48). And above all, we are to be consistent and persistent in following prophetic counsel. I also loved this quote. The best days are ahead for the kingdom of God on the earth. Opposition will strengthen our faith in Jesus Christ, as it has since the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith. Faith always defeats fear. Standing together produces unity. And your prayers for those in need are heard and answered by a loving God. He neither slumbers nor does He sleep. The statement about prayer is a nice refutation against those that mock the prayers of the people. 2
bsjkki Posted March 15, 2018 Author Posted March 15, 2018 I also liked this talk by Elder Uchtdorf. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/perfect-love-casteth-out-fear?lang=eng One of the ways Satan wants us to manipulate others is by dwelling upon and even exaggerating the evil in the world. Certainly our world has always been, and will continue to be, imperfect. Far too many innocent people suffer because of circumstances of nature as well as from man’s inhumanity. The corruption and wickedness in our day are unique and alarming. But in spite of all this, I wouldn’t trade living in this time with any other time in the history of the world. We are blessed beyond measure to live in a day of unparalleled prosperity, enlightenment, and advantage. Most of all, we are blessed to have the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which gives us a unique perspective on the world’s dangers and shows us how to either avoid these dangers or deal with them. And then he says, " We are, therefore, not ignorant of the challenges of the world, nor are we unaware of the difficulties of our times. But this does not mean that we should burden ourselves or others with constant fear. Rather than dwelling on the immensity of our challenges, would it not be better to focus on the infinite greatness, goodness, and absolute power of our God, trusting Him and preparing with a joyful heart for the return of Jesus the Christ? As His covenant people, we need not be paralyzed by fear because bad things might happen. Instead, we can move forward with faith, courage, determination, and trust in God as we approach the challenges and opportunities ahead.14 1
CV75 Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, bsjkki said: I also liked this talk by Elder Uchtdorf. https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2017/04/perfect-love-casteth-out-fear?lang=eng One of the ways Satan wants us to manipulate others is by dwelling upon and even exaggerating the evil in the world. Certainly our world has always been, and will continue to be, imperfect. Far too many innocent people suffer because of circumstances of nature as well as from man’s inhumanity. The corruption and wickedness in our day are unique and alarming. But in spite of all this, I wouldn’t trade living in this time with any other time in the history of the world. We are blessed beyond measure to live in a day of unparalleled prosperity, enlightenment, and advantage. Most of all, we are blessed to have the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which gives us a unique perspective on the world’s dangers and shows us how to either avoid these dangers or deal with them. And then he says, " We are, therefore, not ignorant of the challenges of the world, nor are we unaware of the difficulties of our times. But this does not mean that we should burden ourselves or others with constant fear. Rather than dwelling on the immensity of our challenges, would it not be better to focus on the infinite greatness, goodness, and absolute power of our God, trusting Him and preparing with a joyful heart for the return of Jesus the Christ? As His covenant people, we need not be paralyzed by fear because bad things might happen. Instead, we can move forward with faith, courage, determination, and trust in God as we approach the challenges and opportunities ahead.14 Elder Uchtdorf’s point is not to use fear as a motivator. This can be done regardless of whether one sees these days as the worst or best so far. He uses statements like, “The corruption and wickedness in our day are unique and alarming,” and, “We [meaning the LDS] are blessed beyond measure to live in a day of unparalleled prosperity, enlightenment, and advantage …blessed to have the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which gives us a unique perspective on the world’s dangers…” It seems he is acknowledging, from the subjective LDS perspective, the unique, alarming, unparalleled and blessed potential for God’s children to do both good and evil, and that charity, not fear, enables us to do good.
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said: I’m reasonably sure that there was a recent talk given (Conference?) about avoiding using scaremongering. I’m also reasonably sure that by a number of measures, the world has never been safer. Here we go again with metrics. This world could be a utopia to live in, but if those living in it are moving further from God than ever before then it's still worse than ever before. It really doesn't matter what crime stats or social development stats we quote. None of these provide conclusive evidence of the righteousness or wickedness of the world today. We had a thread directly related to this topic a few months back - http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/69492-the-lord-preaching-his-own-sermons/ I don't recommend doom and gloom, but we are a Millennialist religion after all.
Nofear Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, Calm said: "the most privileged of all - young white people (millennials)." CFR this is true...generally speaking, it seems to me like their parents have more money to spend, more security. Parents aren't generally moving in with their kids because they can't afford to live independently, but the reverse. Whether privileged or not pogi can/did respond (not saying I agree or disagree). But, the male segment of young white people are the most derided group, at least in the UK. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/12051159/young-white-men-most-derided-group-in-britain-yougov.html Edit: this diversion would be mostly off topic so I probably won't respond to replies, if any. Edited March 15, 2018 by Nofear 1
gopher Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 18 hours ago, sunstoned said: You mean when people marched for human rights? It takes action and brave people to facilitate change. No, that doesn't describe any of the people I mentioned. I agree with your second statement. 1
pogi Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 17 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said: Our country needs to declare porn a health crisis and make it illegal. Yes, that produced incredible results with the prohibition of alcohol
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 18 minutes ago, pogi said: Yes, that produced incredible results with the prohibition of alcohol 'Did Prohibition Really Work? Alcohol Prohibition as a Public Health Innovation' 3
theplains Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 On 14/03/2018 at 12:54 AM, sunstoned said: I believe that right now, this very minute is the best time to be alive in the history of the planet. Things are far from perfect, and there is still war, hunger, disease and oppression. But it is better than it use to be. Christians are not being fed to the lions, minorities are not being lynched in the deep south, typhoid, polio, smallpox, malaria and other diseases that use to kill millions have been all be eradicated. In the West, women and minorities are beginning to be treated as equals, and poverty is down. I heard that more Christians are being persecuted/killed around the world in the last 100-150 years than the previous 1800 combined (sorry, wish I could remember the reference). Jim
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, theplains said: I heard that more Christians are being persecuted/killed around the world in the last 100-150 years than the previous 1800 combined (sorry, wish I could remember the reference). 'CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION AND GENOCIDE IS WORSE NOW THAN “ANY TIME IN HISTORY,” REPORT SAYS' 1
strappinglad Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 I remember reading a book on the history of prohibition in Canada. IIRC it was called " Booze " . It showed a number of positive societal effects from prohibition.
JLHPROF Posted March 15, 2018 Posted March 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said: 'CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION AND GENOCIDE IS WORSE NOW THAN “ANY TIME IN HISTORY,” REPORT SAYS' Dang it, now I'm the one posting metrics. But not about societal progress, about our relationship with God. https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/04/160422-atheism-agnostic-secular-nones-rising-religion/https://www.religionnews.com/2016/10/05/leaked-worldwide-only-25-of-young-single-mormons-are-active-in-the-lds-church/ Christian persecution on the rise, atheism on the rise, conversions and activity on the decline. Eventually God will remind us who we and the earth belong to. And he probably won't do it gently.
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 25 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: ...activity on the decline. Where are you obtaining this from?
Hamba Tuhan Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, JLHPROF said: Eventually God will remind us who we and the earth belong to. Being able to forget this is primarily reserved for a small minority of very comfortable elites anyway. In my experience, most of the rest of the world's 7.3 billion people haven't forgot. This is a point of increasing importance: based on demographics alone, attacks on religion are unavoidably attacks by wealthy, powerful, predominantly white people on poor people and people of colour, including migrants and refugees. This last point is especially pertinent where I live. I have a close friend who spent years hiding in the mountains and eventually living in a refugee camp just so he could enjoy the privilege of fully exercising his chosen faith. He arrived here as part of our humanitarian intake, and he's grateful to be alive and free, but he's struggling to deal with living in a 'tolerant, progressive' nation that openly sneers at the very faith that created his status as a refugee in the first place, and he's unsure how to navigate a school system, for example, that insists on teaching his young daughter 'values' that denigrate what he was willing to endure privation and possibly even die for in the first place. Edited March 16, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan 2
SamuelTheLamanite Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 Not sure what happened to the "create option"? Anyone else having problems?
rodheadlee Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 If Christ came in the meridian of time, wouldn't it be about 4000AD when He returns? I do be believe that we are living in the last time but I'm just curious about that saying.
california boy Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 2 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said: 'CHRISTIAN PERSECUTION AND GENOCIDE IS WORSE NOW THAN “ANY TIME IN HISTORY,” REPORT SAYS' Sorry, but this article looks like it is m making up vague accusations without any actual link to any data. Did I miss something?
Calm Posted March 16, 2018 Posted March 16, 2018 5 minutes ago, california boy said: Sorry, but this article looks like it is m making up vague accusations without any actual link to any data. Did I miss something? I do find this hard to believe---"not only are Christians more persecuted than any other faith group"---given how the destruction of Israel is still a priority for many along with widespread antisemitism still present in the world, but maybe they are looking at that as an ethnic issue and not a faith one.
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