Peggy Stack Reports Missionary Numbers Are Still Declining

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, Gray said:

Like "get to da choppa" instead of get to mom's basement?

Not in movies, but in real life.  Arnold is contemptuous of the whining of pusillanimous punks --which is what the Western male has become.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, rongo said:

As it stands, baptismal interviews are kind of like people going to an allergist (who has ever left not being allergic to anything?) or a parent taking a child to the doctor for ADHD (when has a doctor ever told a parent that their child isn't?)....

Off topic:  If you are really claiming absolutes you are wrong in my experience.  I know of several parents who the doctor has told their kid was not ADHD, including me (though it was my daughter who was convinced she was...was hoping at the time because she was looking for some solid cause, thankfully the next step was ECT instead and a so far wonderful disappearance of depression, though other complications are not gone such as anxiety, diabetes, sleep disorder but then ECT doesn't treat those things so we weren't expecting that).  Allergist...while the doc did say allergic to dust mites in one case and to one local tree pollen in another due to the skin reactions, he said there was no need for treatment in either case and instead said it was just one of the minor inconveniences of life people are going to run into.  Given the postnasal drip and stuffy nose of both, it would have been highly unlikely they were not allergic to something.

I am not one to have a love affair with doctors, it is often love some, dislike more (for their neglect or disdain of patients with difficult issues), and feel most are good in some areas, bad in others, in so so in most.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

48 minutes ago, rongo said:

As it stands, baptismal interviews are kind of like people going to an allergist ... : there is a 100% chance that it will be approved (if there is a moral issue, then it will be approved after talking to the mission president). 

Yet again, our experiences diverge dramatically. As a full-time missionary, I personally withheld approval from potential converts, and the same has happened in my ward in the past six months. I've also experienced, both as a missionary and after, a mission president withholding approval for baptism.

[Teancum]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

According to the interwebs.... (from September)

🔥 California is on fire.
🔥 Oregon is on fire.
🔥 Washington is on fire.
🔥 British Columbia is on fire.
🔥 Alberta is on fire
🔥 Montana is on fire.
🔥 Nova Scotia is on fire.
🔥 Greece is on fire.
🔥 Brazil is on fire.
🔥 Portugal is on fire.
🔥 Algeria is on fire.
🔥 Tunisia is on fire.
🔥 Greenland is on fire.
🔥 The Sakha Republic of Russia is on fire.
🔥 Siberia is on fire.
⛈️Texas is under water
⛈️ India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, experience record monsoons and massive death toll.
⛈️ Sierra Leone and Niger experience massive floods, mudslides, and deaths in the thousands.
🌞Italy, France, Spain, Switzerland, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia are crushed in the death grip of a triple digit heat wave, dubbed Lucifer.
🌞Southern California continues to swelter under triple digit heat that shows no sign of letting up.
🌞In usually chilly August, the city of San Francisco shatters all-time record at 106 degrees, while it reaches 115 degrees south of the city. Northern California continues to bake in the triple digits.
((🌎)) Yellowstone volcano is hit with earthquake swarm of over 2,300 tremors since June, recording a 4.4 quake on June 15, 20017 and 3.3 shaker on August 21, 2017.
((🌎)) 5.3 earthquake rumbles through Idaho
((🌎)) Japan earthquake 6.1 possible tsunami..
((🌎)) Mexico earthquake 8.2 imminent tsunami. Beach lines are receded atleast 50+ meters
🌊Hurricanes Harvey, Irma (biggest ever recorded), Jose and Katia are barreling around the Atlantic with 8 more potentials forming
And last but not least an X10 C.M.E solar flare last night . The highest recorded solar flare ever!
Annnnnnnd now you're all caught up 💯💯
 

Then last week we had snow in Florida, mudslides in California, etc.

Ummm ok.  And this addressed my comments exactly how?

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

According to the interwebs.... (from September)

🔥 California is on fire.
🔥 Oregon is on fire.
🔥 Washington is on fire.
🔥 British Columbia is on fire.
🔥 Alberta is on fire
🔥 Montana is on fire.
🔥 Nova Scotia is on fire.
🔥 Greece is on fire.
🔥 Brazil is on fire.
🔥 Portugal is on fire.
🔥 Algeria is on fire.
🔥 Tunisia is on fire.
🔥 Greenland is on fire.
🔥 The Sakha Republic of Russia is on fire.
🔥 Siberia is on fire.
⛈️Texas is under water
⛈️ India, Nepal, Pakistan, and Bangladesh, experience record monsoons and massive death toll.
⛈️ Sierra Leone and Niger experience massive floods, mudslides, and deaths in the thousands.
🌞Italy, France, Spain, Switzerland, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bosnia, Croatia, and Serbia are crushed in the death grip of a triple digit heat wave, dubbed Lucifer.
🌞Southern California continues to swelter under triple digit heat that shows no sign of letting up.
🌞In usually chilly August, the city of San Francisco shatters all-time record at 106 degrees, while it reaches 115 degrees south of the city. Northern California continues to bake in the triple digits.
((🌎)) Yellowstone volcano is hit with earthquake swarm of over 2,300 tremors since June, recording a 4.4 quake on June 15, 20017 and 3.3 shaker on August 21, 2017.
((🌎)) 5.3 earthquake rumbles through Idaho
((🌎)) Japan earthquake 6.1 possible tsunami..
((🌎)) Mexico earthquake 8.2 imminent tsunami. Beach lines are receded atleast 50+ meters
🌊Hurricanes Harvey, Irma (biggest ever recorded), Jose and Katia are barreling around the Atlantic with 8 more potentials forming
And last but not least an X10 C.M.E solar flare last night . The highest recorded solar flare ever!
Annnnnnnd now you're all caught up 💯💯
 

Then last week we had snow in Florida, mudslides in California, etc.

And I have heartburn from undercooked pinto beans.

[JLHPROF]

2 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Ummm ok.  And this addressed my comments exactly how?

That maybe God IS preaching his own sermons and such an idea isn't leprechauns and pots of gold.

The question is whether things are getting worse and whether God has anything to do with it.  Mormonism remains a last days millennialist religion.
We do believe destruction will increase prior to Christ's return.

Edited January 10, 2018 by JLHPROF

[california boy]

4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That maybe God IS preaching his own sermons and such an idea isn't leprechauns and pots of gold.

The question is whether things are getting worse and whether God has anything to do with it.  Mormonism remains a last days millennialist religion.
We do believe destruction will increase prior to Christ's return.

You are blaming God for this list of events?  A lot of these events are yearly events.  Can you name a recent year where there weren't fires in California?  Or mud slides that follow major fires?

[Hamba Tuhan]

18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Yet again, our experiences diverge dramatically. As a full-time missionary, I personally withheld approval from potential converts, and the same has happened in my ward in the past six months. I've also experienced, both as a missionary and after, a mission president withholding approval for baptism.

I should add that it doesn't happen very often specifically because the missionaries are careful in their teaching and preparation. In our mission, it's common for the missionaries to run through the baptismal recommend interview questions with the potential convert a week or so before his/her formally scheduled interview. I've been in several of these 'lessons'. The approach is serious; the questioning, thorough.

Edited January 10, 2018 by Hamba Tuhan

[Teancum]

4 minutes ago, california boy said:

You are blaming God for this list of events?  A lot of these events are yearly events.  Can you name a recent year where there weren't fires in California?  Or mud slides that follow major fires?

Or more likely there is no God and these things are all part of the natural world we live in.

[ttribe]

16 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That maybe God IS preaching his own sermons and such an idea isn't leprechauns and pots of gold.

The question is whether things are getting worse and whether God has anything to do with it.

Or, you've managed to demonstrate a derivative of the Primacy and Recency bias.

[JLHPROF]

12 minutes ago, california boy said:

You are blaming God for this list of events?  A lot of these events are yearly events.  Can you name a recent year where there weren't fires in California?  Or mud slides that follow major fires?

 

7 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Or more likely there is no God and these things are all part of the natural world we live in.

 

3 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Or, you've managed to demonstrate a derivative of the Primacy and Recency bias.

 

It is a question of severity, frequency, duration and extension.  All those things have always happened but are the levels constant or increasing?
Climate change champions claim they are increasing in severity but they place it on man not God.
Scriptural prophecy describes major geological upheavals, and some of us here on the board are LDS last I checked.
 

[carbon dioxide]

17 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Maybe the beginning of the end...calling the missionaries home so the Lord can preach his own sermons.

Eventually it will happen.  The field may have been white and ready to harvest in the 1830s but I don't see a white field today.  There are only so many fish in the lake to catch and adding more fishermen does not increase the number of fish.  I see the the field more brown than white and the field is ready to be burned instead of harvested.

[carbon dioxide]

23 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Or more likely there is no God and these things are all part of the natural world we live in.

On the other hand, all the predictions regarding climate change fit nicely into last days events.  Droughts, famines, and other natural disasters have always been around.  How are they a sign of the last days?  Perhaps these droughts, famines, and other things are more severe and frequent.  Something very different about the last days than previous days.  Perhaps what is different is among other things, the climate.  Perhaps we should not be fearful of climate change.  Perhaps we should rejoice and know that things are going to speed up.

[Hamba Tuhan]

2 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

I see the the field more brown than white and the field is ready to be burned instead of harvested.

I see something else. I literally cannot remember the last time we didn't have a non-member at church. Every single week our missionaries meet at least one person who is willing to listen to them. Last week, one of our ward missionaries took the Sisters to visit a couple of sisters (of the biological variety) that I've been worried about. The address they had was wrong, but the woman who answered the door let them in, listened to their message, and said they could come back.

And I live in a place far, far more secular than the US.

When I was first called as WML just over four years ago, I went to the temple to seek my errand. There I clearly 'saw' that, within the boundaries of our ward, we have enough people open to the message of the Restoration that we could have three small wards. We don't have them yet, so I'm happy to keep harvesting till the One whose right is is to call time does so.

[Teancum]

2 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

On the other hand, all the predictions regarding climate change fit nicely into last days events.  Droughts, famines, and other natural disasters have always been around.  How are they a sign of the last days?  Perhaps these droughts, famines, and other things are more severe and frequent.  Something very different about the last days than previous days.  Perhaps what is different is among other things, the climate.  Perhaps we should not be fearful of climate change.  Perhaps we should rejoice and know that things are going to speed up.

Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing.

The "last days" have supposedly been upon us for thousands of years. Paul, and even Jesus if you can study it and are open to ideas other than dogmatic views, thought the last days were in their lifetimes.

[Thinking]

8 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

There are only so many fish in the lake to catch and adding more fishermen does not increase the number of fish.

This.

[CA Steve]

19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

It is a question of severity, frequency, duration and extension.  All those things have always happened but are the levels constant or increasing?
Climate change champions claim they are increasing in severity but they place it on man not God.
Scriptural prophecy describes major geological upheavals, and some of us here on the board are LDS last I checked.
 

Last I checked the LDS have been millennialist for almost 200 years. 

[california boy]

26 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

 

 

 

It is a question of severity, frequency, duration and extension.  All those things have always happened but are the levels constant or increasing?
Climate change champions claim they are increasing in severity but they place it on man not God.
Scriptural prophecy describes major geological upheavals, and some of us here on the board are LDS last I checked.
 

Some earthquake science that may give you a different perspective.

1. It is estimated that there are 500,000 detectable earthquakes in the world each year. 100,000 of those can be felt, and 100 of them cause damage.
2. Each year the southern California area has about 10,000 earthquakes. Most of them are so small that they are not felt. Only several hundred are greater than magnitude 3.0, and only about 15-20 are greater than magnitude 4.0. If there is a large earthquake, however, the aftershock sequence will produce many more earthquakes of all magnitudes for many months.
3. God must love these four states the most
4. From 1975-1995 there were only four states that did not have any earthquakes. They were: Florida, Iowa, North Dakota, and Wisconsin.
5. You missed the boat slightly.  You should have posted this 50 years ago.
6. The largest recorded earthquake in the United States was a magnitude 9.2 that struck Prince William Sound, Alaska on Good Friday, March 28, 1964 UTC.
7. The largest recorded earthquake in the world was a magnitude 9.5 (Mw) in Chile on May 22, 1960.

God hates Alaska the most

1. Alaska is the most earthquake-prone state and one of the most seismically active regions in the world. Alaska experiences a magnitude 7 earthquake almost every year, and a magnitude 8 or greater earthquake on average every 14 years.
2. You missed the year that holds the record number of death by over 40 years. In 1976 there were 697.309 deaths caused by earthquakes.

You can get statistics to say just about anything you want.

1.  

Edited January 10, 2018 by california boy

[carbon dioxide]

5 minutes ago, Teancum said:

Confirmation bias is a wonderful thing.

The "last days" have supposedly been upon us for thousands of years. Paul, and even Jesus if you can study it and are open to ideas other than dogmatic views, thought the last days were in their lifetimes.

Call it what you want. I am not the one that is saying that climate change will bring about more natural disasters and wars.  The UN and other people are saying it.   I simply apply what they are saying and it fits the narrative.  If what they are saying is true, the 21st century is going to a very disruptive century.  Far more will go on this century than any previous century in a long time. 

[JLHPROF]

10 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Eventually it will happen.  The field may have been white and ready to harvest in the 1830s but I don't see a white field today.  There are only so many fish in the lake to catch and adding more fishermen does not increase the number of fish.  I see the the field more brown than white and the field is ready to be burned instead of harvested.

 

3 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

I see something else. I literally cannot remember the last time we didn't have a non-member at church. Every single week our missionaries meet at least one person who is willing to listen to them. Last week, one of our ward missionaries took the Sisters to visit a couple of sisters (of the biological variety) that I've been worried about. The address they had was wrong, but the woman who answered the door let them in, listened to their message, and said they could come back.

And I live in a place far, far more secular than the US.

When I was first called as WML just over four years ago, I went to the temple to seek my errand. There I clearly 'saw' that, within the boundaries of our ward, we have enough people open to the message of the Restoration that we could have three small wards. We don't have them yet, so I'm happy to keep harvesting till the One whose right is is to call time does so.

 

Is there a prophecy I am unaware of that states that God won't stop missionary work, bring home the missionaries, and pour out judgments on the earth until every potential investigator is reached?
I know the gospel is to be taken to every nation, kindred, tongue, and people.  But that's not the same thing.
Every time I suggest that time may be nearly up I get the "but we still have people to convert" argument.  Using that logic God's word will never happen and tomorrow will never come.
Did I miss something?

[aussieguy55]

16 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I understand that the percentage of women serving is way up, and that the decline is in men.  Create a society of wusses and that's what you get.  Where are the real men?  By the way, I was just reading that women prefer dominant men (the alpha-male) -- even if he is a male chauvinist pig.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/head-games/201305/the-allure-aggressive-men .

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/240209578_Do_Women_Prefer_Dominant_Men_The_Case_of_the_Missing_Control_Condition .

It isn't supposed to be easy, which is what makes it such an effective initiatory experience.  It is no accident that Mormon women prefer a take charge RM.  Emphasize that, and just maybe there would be an increase in men going on missions.

Speaking of males, I read somewhere  that   in violent societies    women prefer  Russell Crowe types (Gladiator)  and in nonviolent societies  prefer  Johnny Depp types.

[carbon dioxide]

16 minutes ago, california boy said:

Some earthquake science that may give you a different perspective.

1. It is estimated that there are 500,000 detectable earthquakes in the world each year. 100,000 of those can be felt, and 100 of them cause damage.
2. Each year the southern California area has about 10,000 earthquakes. Most of them are so small that they are not felt. Only several hundred are greater than magnitude 3.0, and only about 15-20 are greater than magnitude 4.0. If there is a large earthquake, however, the aftershock sequence will produce many more earthquakes of all magnitudes for many months.
3. God must love these four states the most
4. From 1975-1995 there were only four states that did not have any earthquakes. They were: Florida, Iowa, North Dakota, and Wisconsin.
5. You missed the boat slightly.  You should have posted this 50 years ago.
6. The largest recorded earthquake in the United States was a magnitude 9.2 that struck Prince William Sound, Alaska on Good Friday, March 28, 1964 UTC.
7. The largest recorded earthquake in the world was a magnitude 9.5 (Mw) in Chile on May 22, 1960.

God hates Alaska the most

1. Alaska is the most earthquake-prone state and one of the most seismically active regions in the world. Alaska experiences a magnitude 7 earthquake almost every year, and a magnitude 8 or greater earthquake on average every 14 years.
2. You missed the year that holds the record number of death by over 40 years. In 1976 there were 697.309 deaths caused by earthquakes.
3.  

Earthquakes have been happening from the beginning of time.  Big ones and small ones.  What is important is that at least in terms of the US, all of the major faults that are due or overdue to have a big earthquake on them.  From the San Andreas, the New Madrid,  Wasatch,  the Cascadia fault line off the Pacific northwest ect are ready to go.  When they do, they are going to bring death and destruction the US has never seen before.  Odds are that a least a couple of them will go this century.  The 9.0 quake that will hit off Seattle will be highly interesting. Not only the shaking but the tsunami that will occur could easily kill well over 100,000 people.   Add this to the wars and other natural disasters that are coming, the 21st century is going to be be much more action packed than the 20th century was. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by carbon dioxide

[california boy]

11 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Earthquakes have been happening from the beginning of time.  Big ones and small ones.  What is important is that at least in terms of the US, all of the major faults that are due or overdue to have a big earthquake on them.  From the San Andreas, the New Madrid,  Wasatch,  the Cascadia fault line off the Pacific northwest ect are ready to go.  When they do, they are going to bring death and destruction the US has never seen before.  Odds are that a least a couple of them will go this century.  The 9.0 quake that will hit off Seattle will be highly interesting. Not only the shaking but the tsunami that will occur could easily kill well over 100,000 people.   Add this to the wars and other natural disasters that are coming, the 21st century is going to be be much more action packed than the 20th century was. 

I absolutely agree that earthquakes have amazing potential for disaster.  They always have.  I have lived near San Francisco my whole life.  So the threat of "the big one" has been going on since I was a kid.  It doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.  I just have a problem blaming God for natural disasters.  They are a natural part of the earth we live in.  To have such a belief would mean that God loves the people who are not living in earthquake areas more than he does people who live near major faults. It has never made any sense to me when people start to claim that surely "now" we are approaching the second coming because look at this years headlines.

As to wars, can you name a single year in the history of mankind where there was not a war somewhere on the earth?

Edited January 11, 2018 by california boy

[carbon dioxide]

1 minute ago, california boy said:

I absolutely agree that earthquakes have amazing potential for disaster.  They always have.  I have lived near San Francisco my whole life.  So the threat of "the big one" has been going on since I was a kid.  It doesn't mean it isn't going to happen.  I just have a problem blaming God for natural disasters.  They are a natural part of the earth we live in.  To have such a belief would mean that God loves the people who are not living in earthquake areas more than he does people who live near major faults. It has never made any sense to me when people start to claim that surely "now" we are approaching the second coming because look at this years headlines.

I don't blame God for anything.  Most things happen due to natural events or man being the cause of it.  God is able to see the events and warns us of them and may even step in and prevent them if man repents. However if man does not repent, he just lets them happen.  What does annoy me is that certain people blame God when bad things happen yet these same people don't care about God or give God the time of day before the natural disaster hits.  We should not expect God to do anything for us if we reject him in our daily lives.  

I would agree that many people read the signs of the second coming wrong.  The world was much worse in the 1930s and 1940s than today.  I believe however the signs of the last days are distinct.  It is not just a random disaster here and there over a period of many years which has always been the case.  It will be a time of much more intense and rapid disasters to the point that we will know that things are fundamentally different.  Its is not business as usual on the earth.  Things have changed.

[Robert F. Smith]

14 minutes ago, aussieguy55 said:

Speaking of males, I read somewhere  that   in violent societies    women prefer  Russell Crowe types (Gladiator)  and in nonviolent societies  prefer  Johnny Depp types.

Both Depp and Crowe are consummate actors and each is macho in his own right, so perhaps you are distinguishing the roles that they play.  Crowe as a Roman general who becomes a gladiator versus the drunken pirate captain.  Not sure what that means.  Do you have fellow-feeling for Crowe the Kiwi because he comes from Down Under?  Or are you opposed to him for that very reason?  Or does it matter?  Escapes my grasp.

Anyhow, do you perceive the USA as a violent society?  And New Zealand as a nonviolent one?  I'd say yes to both questions, but am not sure, what with the Haka and all . . .