conference today

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

A friend of mine made a fairly innocuous Facebook post about the family proclamation the other day. This drew the antagonists out of the woodwork, and predictably, one popped up with the narrative about the proclamation having been written by Kirton and McConkie.

So yeah, it's a fairly standard talking point among those who hate the family proclamation.  

Edited to add:  Others here have answered the CFR quite well, saving me the trouble. (Thanks, Calm and Smac and Okra, pardon if I'm missing anybody). "Fairly popular notion" was my own subjective assessment based on personal observation. Reject it if you like. The evidence is what it is. 

Were you measuring popularity based on the 4 billion internet users as Provoman previously provided for some reason as a standard or did you have in mind perhaps a slightly smaller group when you expressed your opinion?  Such as "those who hate the family proclamation"?

Just so Provoman can be clearer on the context of your comment, it seems to be important to him.

Edited October 1, 2017 by Calm

[Kenngo1969]

7 hours ago, smac97 said:

Yes, I've seen it quite a few times as well.

But . . . you're ridiculous.

-Smac

Yep ... Scott's one of the most ridiculouth people I know!  

[Duncan]

9 hours ago, Avatar4321 said:

President eyring's talk this evening was very enlightening. Sustaining local leaders as called by God even though they have weaknesses that may be very obvious to us is difficult to some

That isn't to say leaders can say or do whatever they want

[JLHPROF]

13 minutes ago, Duncan said:

That isn't to say leaders can say or do whatever they want

True, but it's an issue of stewardship.  Brigham Young taught:

"were I to be asked whether I have any experience in this matter, I can tell the people that once in my life I felt a want of confidence in brother Joseph Smith, soon after I became acquainted with him. It was not concerning religious matters—it was not about his revelations—but it was in relation to his financiering—to his managing the temporal affairs which he undertook. A feeling came ever me that Joseph was not right in his financial management, though I presume the feeling did not last sixty seconds, and perhaps not thirty. But that feeling came on me once and once only, from the time I first knew him to the day of his death. 

Though I admitted in my feelings and knew all the time that Joseph was a human being and subject to err, still it was none of my business to look after his faults.

I repented of my unbelief, and that too, very suddenly; I repented about as quickly as I committed the error. It was not for me to question whether Joseph was dictated by the Lord at all times and under all circumstances or not. I never had the feeling for one moment, to believe that any man or set of men or beings upon the face of the whole earth had anything to do with him, for he was superior to them all, and held the keys of salvation over them. Had I not thoroughly understood this and believed it, I much doubt whether I should ever have embraced what is called “Mormonism.” He was called of God; God dictated him, and if He had a mind to leave him to himself and let him commit an error, that was no business of mine. And it was not for me to question it, if the Lord was disposed to let Joseph lead the people astray, for He had called him and instructed him to gather Israel and restore the Priesthood and kingdom to them.

It was not my prerogative to call him in question with regard to any act of his life. He was God's servant, and not mine. He did not belong to the people but to the Lord, and was doing the work of the Lord, and if He should suffer Joseph to lead the people astray, it would be because they ought to be led astray. If He should suffer them to be chastised, and some of them destroyed, it would be because they deserved it, or to accomplish some righteous purpose. That was my faith, and it is my faith still."

[Glenn101]

23 minutes ago, Duncan said:

That isn't to say leaders can say or do whatever they want

But they can say or do whatever they want. But I think that they try awfully hard to align what they say and do (and think) with what they believe is the Lord's will. Is the latter close to what you meant?

Glenn

 

[provoman]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Were you measuring popularity based on the 4 billion internet users as Provoman previously provided for some reason as a standard or did you have in mind perhaps a slightly smaller group when you expressed your opinion?  Such as "those who hate the family proclamation"?

Just so Provoman can be clearer on the context of your comment, it seems to be important to him.

keep moving the goal post.

poster removed

[Sleeper Cell]

27 minutes ago, provoman said:

keep moving the goal post.

…  Just what is your goal?

[Rain]

Sister Bingham 

Disasters can make it hard to find joy. Where can we find joy? Have faith in Christ and live as he asks.

Memorizing the Living Christ will help us to study and learn about him better.

He understands us perfectly and is the source of healing.  He will not enter without invitation.  We must come to him for that healing.  Sometimes we are afraid to trust, but when we study his plan we can find that peace. 

Faith in Christ brings more than peace. His gifts also help us become more than we ever thought we could. (This seems to be a theme this conference.  It is,at least the third time I have heard it.)

When the storms of life come upon us do we look for an internet post to help or do we study the life of Christ and increase our faith in him?

 

Elder Halstrom

What about those who don't receive the miracles that others seem to receive?  What about those who don't survive or who are not healed? 

Perhaps we misunderstand what a miracle is. Perhaps we should expand our definition.

Faith comes first. Have faith that God can save us,  but if not have faith in him still. Is our faith on being healed or in God and his plan?

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rain

[Robert F. Smith]

Elder Donald Hallstrom provided an excellent definition of "miracle," and I am looking forward to the printed version.

[bluebell]

8 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Elder Donald Hallstrom provided an excellent definition of "miracle," and I am looking forward to the printed version.

Me too. 

[Rain]

Elder Bednar

One of the challenges of today is focusing on where we are going with all the things we have to do today.

Eternal life is the ultimate promise. We have the opportunity and responsibility to accept the call that comes with that promise.  Following Christ changes our nature line upon line. 

The Sabbath day helps us to keep the object of eternal life in our sight. 

Temples help us receive and remember his promises.

Temples and the Sabbath are a sacred space and time to lit our eyes to God.

Our homes combine the time and place of remembering those promises. What we do in our homes are pivital in our divine nature. 

 

[Rain]

Elder Waddell

There will be times when we find ourselves in unexpected paths in severe curcumstances. How will we respond?

Trials cannot alter our course to eternal life. Only our choices can.

Hope and peace or available through the atonement.  Christ not only sympathized with us,  but empathisizes with us. 

We can choose our responces even if we cannot choose our curcumstances. Sometimes we are "healed" by being given strength, understanding or patience.

We are invited to look to the Savior and live. Will we look?

How we respond is a choice. Looking to Christ is always the best option.

 

Elder Zwick

Lion king story.

The young king was counseled to look beyond what you see.  We should look past easy assumptions and see Christ 

When we make assumptions we can act like a giant wrecking ball. 

Truly loving others means accepting the best efforts of others. 

We have been gifted spiritual alarms to remind us of Christ. The sacrament is one of those alarms. When we pay attention to those alarms we receive the blessings of the sacrament to always have the Spirit with us.

 

[juliann]

Elder Zwick for the quote of the morning when he said that his pat "pray about it" advice was a wrecking ball because he didn't understand  the young missionary's real problem. 

Edited October 1, 2017 by juliann

[Scott Lloyd]

9 hours ago, Calm said:

Were you measuring popularity based on the 4 billion internet users as Provoman previously provided for some reason as a standard or did you have in mind perhaps a slightly smaller group when you expressed your opinion?  Such as "those who hate the family proclamation"?

Just so Provoman can be clearer on the context of your comment, it seems to be important to him.

This is a very good point.

The context/population/frame of reference I had in mind was those who dislike the family proclamation and are inclined to challenge its divinity or prophetic verity or validity. This of course is an infinitesimal subset of the 4 billion internet users Provoman referenced

I would have thought this self-evident, but perhaps not.

[Rain]

President Eyring

Decided to follow President Monson's counsel to study and follow the BoM more fervently. This has him a sense of optimism and a greater feeling of love for those in distress. 

When we stand with faith upon Christ, doubt and fear diminish. We move with faith to help others.

The Lord will go before you whenever you are on the Lord's errand.

-------

I am so fighting on this one. There is something I greatly fear to do. The Lord is telling me to trust him and be willing to do it. I need to get myself there and then pray to find out if he does really want me to do it.

 

[Scott Lloyd]

11 minutes ago, juliann said:

Elder Zwick for the quote of the morning when he said that his pat "pray about it" advice was a wrecking ball because he didn't understand  the young missionary's real problem. 

I will miss Elder Zwick. He was always very cordial to me, addressed me by name, etc., when I covered seminars for new mission presidents.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

President Eyring

Decided to follow President Monson's counsel to study and follow the BoM more fervently. This has him a sense of optimism and a greater feeling of love for those in distress. 

 

I set a goal when I heard that last conference to re-read the Book of Mormon before the next conference. I confess I only made it through 1 and 2 Nephi.

I did benefit  thereby, however.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, provoman said:

keep moving the goal post.

You are strange.

[Scott Lloyd]

2 hours ago, provoman said:

keep moving the goal post.

Let it go, Provoman. It's not worth getting spun up over.

And the moderators have instructed us not to pick fights or start arguments in this thread.

[Rain]

21 minutes ago, juliann said:

Elder Zwick for the quote of the morning when he said that his pat "pray about it" advice was a wrecking ball because he didn't understand  the young missionary's real problem. 

I first noticed this kind of thing on my mission. I know that lots of people don't like the missionary guide,  but one of the things it taught me was to discover concerns before trying to commit someone to do something.  I noticed lots of missionaries never took the time to do this.  

I am far from perfect in this,  but I've noticed that discovering those concerns really makes a difference.  

It's is difficult to do on message boards. Because of the time between responces and the many people involved things can get way out of hand and it is difficult to slow that down and discover the true concerns.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Elder Donald Hallstrom provided an excellent definition of "miracle," and I am looking forward to the printed version.

"a beneficial event brought about through divine power that mortals do not understand’

[CV75]

20 hours ago, bluebell said:

I actually thought of that when I was listening to the talk, but I don't see it as a change of mind.  I might be remembering wrong, but I don't think that Elder Oaks called it a revelation this time either.  That seemed like an important omission to me, but i don't interpret the omission to be at odds with the other things he said about it.

I think we will hear renewed emphasis in response to increasing and incessant societal pressure on everyone, including saints, to give their full, undiscriminating blessing for same-sex marriage, cohabitation and single parenting, and the fulfilling of parental ambitions through commercial surrogacy and artificial insemination without the child being reared within the bonds of traditional marriage. In other words, to cultivate uninspired expectations that the Church doctrine and ordinances should likewise change, and can change if societal norms would only change among the  members.

[Duncan]

4 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

But they can say or do whatever they want. But I think that they try awfully hard to align what they say and do (and think) with what they believe is the Lord's will. Is the latter close to what you meant?

Glenn

 

I hope they try to align what they say and do with what God wants. My experience has been all over the place with Church leaders. Now, I live by I will hear somebody out but I will follow the spirit

[Duncan]

53 minutes ago, Rain said:

I first noticed this kind of thing on my mission. I know that lots of people don't like the missionary guide,  but one of the things it taught me was to discover concerns before trying to commit someone to do something.  I noticed lots of missionaries never took the time to do this.  

I am far from perfect in this,  but I've noticed that discovering those concerns really makes a difference.  

It's is difficult to do on message boards. Because of the time between responces and the many people involved things can get way out of hand and it is difficult to slow that down and discover the true concerns.

an aside, but where did you serve?

[Robert F. Smith]

30 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I think we will hear renewed emphasis in response to increasing and incessant societal pressure on everyone, including saints, to give their full, undiscriminating blessing for same-sex marriage, cohabitation and single parenting, and the fulfilling of parental ambitions through commercial surrogacy and artificial insemination without the child being reared within the bonds of traditional marriage. In other words, to cultivate uninspired expectations that the Church doctrine and ordinances should likewise change, and can change if societal norms would only change among the  members.

I just don't think that's it.  Rather we need to accept our pluralistic society and respect those who make choices which we would not make, be they non-traditional marriage (SSM, polygamy, etc.), abortion, adultery, taking recreational drugs (nicotine, reefer, booze, etc.) where legal, and cavorting on the sabbath (Muslim Friday, Jewish Saturday, and Christian Sunday).  We may disapprove of those things, but our doctrine is very specific about free agency for all, come what may. Just because we wish to obey the Lord does not mean that others should be required by law to do so.  In fact, it is given unto them to choose for themselves.  That is part of what life on Earth is all about: Making choices.  Of course there are pressures.  There wouldn't be any real choices without pressures from all sides -- God wants to test us under real conditions.  This life is not a game of let's pretend.  At least not for us adults.