I’m Back, Did You Miss Me? Appropriateness of Singing I am a Child of God

[MorningStar]

There are many reasons to be afraid of death.

1.  Pain.

2.  Leaving our loved ones behind.

3.  Feeling like we didn't finish everything we were meant to finish.

I can't imagine my family surviving without me and it's a horrible thought.   

[The Nehor]

4 minutes ago, MorningStar said:

There are many reasons to be afraid of death.

1.  Pain.

2.  Leaving our loved ones behind.

3.  Feeling like we didn't finish everything we were meant to finish.

I can't imagine my family surviving without me and it's a horrible thought.   

I am not afraid of death but then I do not have a family that depends on me. My family loves me and would miss me but none of them rely on me to survive.

Now, if I was in a situation where I was about to die while being attacked or being trapped or having a gun pulled on me or whatever I imagine I would have a visceral animal reaction and probably feel fear, aggression, or the urge to flee but that is a different animal.

Edited April 15, 2017 by The Nehor

[Calm]

56 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I agree that this is an interesting discussion.  I've tried to put myself in JC's position.  I've been scared on planes before but haven't experienced anything like what he described in his OP.  I'm so shy that I know I'd just have stayed silent but would have been terrified.  I can only imagine that hearing someone start to sing that song right then would have been touching and comforting for me as it's one of my favorites.  However, I understand if others feel or react differently to it.

I just don't understand feeling repulsed when I know someone is being comforted from a terrifying experience by a song.  I could get being amused or even a bit annoyed, but disgusted?  I tend to reserve that for acts of hate or perversion.

If I had a choice of the person sitting next to me screaming in terror and calmly swearing "a blue streak", I would choose that latter hands down.  I would be find rather comforting hearing repeated Hail Marys (I assume it is an appropriate prayer) or other faiths' appeals or whatever (I can see being disgusted by vomiting or other extreme physical reactions due to the smell, but if they made the other person feel better, I would put a cloth over my nose and try to ignore it).

Edited April 15, 2017 by Calm

[RevTestament]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I just don't understand feeling repulsed when I know someone is being comforted from a terrifying experience by a song.  I could get being amused or even a bit annoyed, but disgusted?  I tend to reserve that for acts of hate or perversion.

Now what does give me a gag reflex is hearing that our children are being asked to say a new pledge of allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands - one nation, under Allah, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

[Calm]

Allah is Arabic for God.  Arabic Christians use Allah as the name of God. 

Would you be offended to hear a pledge with "Dios" in it?

Edited April 15, 2017 by Calm

[SamIam]

5 hours ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

So you find others' 'screaming, tears, crying and panic' personally more peaceful that when they calmly sing a religious song. I think that does say something.

Frankly, I think the reaction is so entirely unnatural and completely lacking in logical consideration that I wonder if ol' Johnnie Cakes isn't just trolling for the fun of a collective Mormon gasp.

[Calm]

It is possible, I suspect, for one's mind to go weird places when fearful for distraction.  To judge that wandering as reasonable after the moment has passed might be giving it too much credit though.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Calm

[Hamba Tuhan]

26 minutes ago, Calm said:

Arabic Christians use Allah as the name of God. 

As do Christians in both Indonesia and Malaysia. In Indonesian, the sacrament prayers both begin, 'Ya Allah...'

[Hamba Tuhan]

4 hours ago, SamIam said:

Frankly, I think the reaction is so entirely unnatural and completely lacking in logical consideration that I wonder if ol' Johnnie Cakes isn't just trolling for the fun of a collective Mormon gasp.

It's possible ... but it's also possible for deep-seated hatred to become entirely natural and reflexive.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Hamba Tuhan

[Kenngo1969]

Johnny Cake?

Trollin'???

Nawww!

Couldn't be!

 

[Kenngo1969]

Gag reflex?

Oooh-kay.  

Whatever, Dude.  

But henceforth, any protestations from you that the religious somehow have a corner on intolerance aren't likely to get a very sympathetic hearing from me.  That your gag reflex was triggered seems more than a wee bit out of proportion to the event.  Ridicule the devout, belittle them, a la The Book of Mormon: The Musical.  But gag reflex?  And you talk as though only the religious wrestle with questions of meaning and purpose.  Artists, philosophers, poets and other writers, ethicists, and other people of like stripe ... both religious and  shockingly, not ... have been rasslin' with them thar questions for millennia, son.

As for breaking into song at times like this, well, we Mormons tend to do that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_W._Hunter.  (See Section 7.) 

And while your faith in the flight crew and the aircraft is admirable, they, too, have their limits: https://www.dailymotion.com/playlist/x3h9i5_qbanangel1985_air-crash-investigation/1#video=x5dt0fk

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kenngo1969
Hinky Linky!

[Kenngo1969]

Johnny Cake:

https://www.dailymotion.com/32a8645c-86c4-4d2f-9caa-b7db7a40e2df

If this video isn't at 27:00, advance it to that point and listen to what this pilot says after a door was ripped off of his aircraft in flight, whereupon an explosive decompression occurred.  (Some of his passengers lost their lives after being sucked through the hole, but he got most of them on the ground safely).

This pilot obviously doesn't understand where it's at!  After that landing, he should have been beating his chest and saying, "It was me, baby!  It was all me!!!"  

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Kenngo1969

[Bernard Gui]

Well, being a violinist, if I had my fiddle on board I might have struck up a tune. Musicians, like captains, go down with the ship.

Quote

Wallace Hartley, the Titanic's band leader, who went down with the ship (as did all other musicians on board), liked the hymn "Nearer My God to Thee" and had wished to have it performed at his funeral. George Orrell, the bandmaster of the rescue ship, RMS Carpathia, who spoke with Titanic survivors, related: "The ship's band in any emergency is expected to play to calm the passengers. After the Titanic struck the iceberg the band began to play bright music, dance music, comic songs – anything that would prevent the passengers from becoming panic-stricken... various awe-stricken passengers began to think of the death that faced them and asked the bandmaster to play hymns. The one which appealed to all was 'Nearer My God to Thee'

I hope that I wouldn't cause anyone to gag, unless, of course, they might prefer some blues riffs on a guitar as they pass on to their reward.

Seriously, though, having a bit of compassion at the moment of death never hurt anyone.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Meadowchik]

10 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

I usually save my gag reflex for things like blow-out diapers, skunk smell, bullying people, and other nauctious things. You know, things that are gag worthy. Not childhood religious songs. Or any people's earnest moments of prayer or faith, whether of my religion or not. 

 

Something's wrong IMHO if I start acting that reactively to something that innocuous.

 

With luv,

BD 

 

You hit the nail on the head. For him, something is wrong with it. 

[Meadowchik]

9 hours ago, bluebell said:

But if someone's exercise of their beliefs makes you involuntarily gag simply because you disagree with them, that says some not great things about you as a person, doesn't it?

I mean, I can only imagine what nonbelievers or ex Mormons would say if a Mormon posted that hearing others' non-religious or nonmormon coping skills during a scary situation made them gag. 

I doesn't seem to speak well for the person doing the gagging, even if it's involuntary. 

(Not to mention, what would need to be wrong with a person for merely hearing a declaration of faith to make them literally gag?  That doesn't seem like a normal or healthy way to react to someone expressing a belief different than their's.)

It can simply speak to where that person is in their transition. A Mormon cannot ever become a non-Mormon. Obviously,  if a Mormon becomes dissaffected with church, there is some form of dissonance which can vary in degree.

In addition, Mormonism is an extremely intense religion, among the most intensive, thus having impact potentially on every aspect of a person's life.

So a Mormon song sung by people calming themselves is not just that, it can represent the antithesis of what an ex-Mormon uses to calm themselves, it can have the opposite effect. And something anxiety-inducing in a terrifying situation could quite understandably induce an even worse involuntary reaction than normal.

[Meadowchik]

5 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Now what does give me a gag reflex is hearing that our children are being asked to say a new pledge of allegiance:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands - one nation, under Allah, indivisible with liberty and justice for all."

Good point. One person's comfort can be another person's discomfort, even to the extreme point of gag-inducing.

[BlueDreams]

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

You hit the nail on the head. For him, something is wrong with it. 

That was definitely not my point. Something is wrong with his reaction. Not the situation. I get having a negative visceral reaction to something religious. When I was a teen I lived in Texas in the Bible Belt. At that point I was mostly Mormon in name not much in faith or action. But I was surprised by the reactions I got to being Mormon. The obtuse questions, outright prejudice, dismissals of opinions, a sense that I may have gotten a better answer if I said I had cancer, and the outright lies about us purported on the radio and in random special discussions about us in their churches that I would then have to volley questions about at school.

Because of that I got a bad taste in my mouth towards evangelicals and particularly baptists. When my mom decided to go to a baptist church service, I went with her and felt super uncomfortable and highly critical. I felt like a Mormon spy and I prayed that my mother wouldn't open her mouth and tell people what we were.  But she did of course. 

Anyways, it made sense why I was feeling the way I did. But it didn't make it justifiable or okay to feel that way. I don't like maintaining prejudices over people. So as an adult, when I had the opportunity I went to church with a friend who was baptist at the time to work out my feelings. I got to know a range of baptists and have a soft spot for black baptist congregations. I got over it and matured past it. I still have discrepancies with the evangelical and baptist faiths, but it's not a visceral dislike, distrust, or disdain like it used to be. My bad experiences is not enough to justify prejudice against a whole group and their faith. 

 

Just because something was wrong with it to him, doesn't say anything to me than he really needs to work through some stuff, cuz it's not actually gag-worthy.

 

with luv,

BD

[Johnnie Cake]

12 hours ago, juliann said:

That sounds a little hateful, actually. I'm trying to figure out what would be gag inducing in seeing others find some peace. 

I had a harrowing landing a few years ago at SLC. They made us circle for about 15 minutes while we bounced around, I was bracing myself against the seat in front of me. I had a window seat, and my wing suddenly tipped down as we were low over the runway. Fortunately we were still high enough that it didn't touch the runway and the plane leveled out before touch down. I'm betting wind shear. 

It is not intended as hateful...it was more of a reaction...of really?  Here? Now? Good Grief!

[Johnnie Cake]

14 hours ago, The Nehor said:

So in a situation where people were genuinely scared they sang a song to comfort themselves and others. You, using your psychic powers, realized you were less scared. You then took this golden opportunity to take the time to think how much better you were then them.

And the moral of this story is supposed to be that people like you are better? I think that is a radical interpretation of the situation.

I'm no better or worse than any other human being living today...I guess we all just confront the end differently

[Tacenda]

8 hours ago, SamIam said:

Frankly, I think the reaction is so entirely unnatural and completely lacking in logical consideration that I wonder if ol' Johnnie Cakes isn't just trolling for the fun of a collective Mormon gasp.

I think he's serious. I have some of those feelings about some things in Mormonism ever since my faith crisis. It's a reaction to the missionaries and thinking maybe it's a missionary tactic or maybe not even that. I know that it's not true subconciously but react as if it is, if that makes sense.

If it were someone else or even non LDS missionaries I'll bet he wouldn't have had that reaction. The missionaries are connected of course, to the church. The church stands for some hurtful things in JC's life I'm guessing. Just like an ex spouse or girlfriend that has wronged you, IMO. Hopefully JC will chime in about my hypothesis. ETA: Just noticed Meadowchic's post and others, I think the light bulb just went on for some of us!

Edited April 15, 2017 by Tacenda

[Kenngo1969]

7 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

It is not intended as hateful...it was more of a reaction...of really?  Here? Now? Good Grief!

Oh, I know!  They shoulda simply asked the steward(esse)s for a little Liquid Courage!

[bluebell]

12 hours ago, JulieM said:

I don't think any one of us should be telling another how they should have reacted in a terrifying situation like this. Some broke out in singing a song that comforted them, others (including Johnnie Cake) may have gagged at hearing this type of reaction. He's only being honest here and I'm not sure there's any right or wrong way to react under the stress they were all experiencing.   

JC seems to be saying that how that woman reacted was inappropriate when she started singing, thus opening the floor up for judgement of his own actions and responses as well.

And he's also specifically asking for our opinions on the matter in title of the OP.

How can anyone participate in the thread,  given the parameters that JC has set up, without offering our opinions on his reaction and the singing woman's.

 

 

[Johnnie Cake]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I think he's serious. I have some of those feelings about some things in Mormonism ever since my faith crisis. It's a reaction to the missionaries and thinking maybe it's a missionary tactic or maybe not even that. I know that it's not true subconciously but react as if it is, if that makes sense.

If it were someone else or even non LDS missionaries I'll bet he wouldn't have had that reaction. The missionaries are connected of course, to the church. The church stands for some hurtful things in JC's life I'm guessing. Just like an ex spouse or girlfriend that has wronged you, IMO. Hopefully JC will chime in about my hypothesis.

For me it really came down to the appropriateness of singing that song at that moment...for me it was ill timed. 
 

But as to your point...you may be correct.  I'm a non member and yet my life is immersed in Mormonism.  Despite everything I do I can not excape its grasp.  So yes my reaction was partically based on this reality I'm sure...not even at this point could I escape the church...its everywhere arggggggg

So why post here?  It's about processing my Mormon experience...its part of my recovery and healing from the religion

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

It can simply speak to where that person is in their transition. A Mormon cannot ever become a non-Mormon. Obviously,  if a Mormon becomes dissaffected with church, there is some form of dissonance which can vary in degree.

In addition, Mormonism is an extremely intense religion, among the most intensive, thus having impact potentially on every aspect of a person's life.

So a Mormon song sung by people calming themselves is not just that, it can represent the antithesis of what an ex-Mormon uses to calm themselves, it can have the opposite effect. And something anxiety-inducing in a terrifying situation could quite understandably induce an even worse involuntary reaction than normal.

I agree in that it speaks to some unhealthy issues in regards to Mormonism that hopefully JC can work out. 

We all have irrational reactions to some things. That doesn't mean they are ok or healthy or should be defended.

[JulieM]

36 minutes ago, bluebell said:

And he's also specifically asking for our opinions on the matter in title of the OP.

How can anyone participate in the thread,  given the parameters that JC has set up, without offering our opinions on his reaction and the singing woman's.

I didn't say we shouldn't give our opinions (I've given mine and stated that hearing that song would have touched me and comforted me since I love it).  What I stated was that JC was honestly relating what his reaction was and I don't think we should be telling anyone how they should have reacted just because it's different from how we would have.  He was just being honest.

Probably a more interesting discussion would be regarding why he reacted that way and then trying to understand why he feels as he does.  I see a few who have tried to do that here (Meadowchik, Tacenda and maybe others).

Edited April 15, 2017 by JulieM