I’m Back, Did You Miss Me? Appropriateness of Singing I am a Child of God

[Calm]

7 hours ago, JulieM said:

I've seen several references now to JC's "own board".  I wasn't aware he had one. I know you can't post a link, but does his forum have a name?  Just curious why he posts here if he has a hoard of his own (?)

He posts on another board, not his own in terms of ownership.  I don't know if he or someone else has posted a parallel thread there on this topic as often happens.  I thought he had based on something said, but misunderstood which I realized when I reread it.

edited for accuracy

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, JulieM said:

True.

And after thinking more (because of your post and calm's), I recognize it's wrong to assume the intentions of the young woman singing.  As I stated above, she may have not even realized she started singing because of the fear she was experiencing.  

I agree!

[Rain]

19 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

All caps is shouting.

Feelings are feelings. They are indicators of what is going on inside a person, often involving themselves and relationships with other people.

And negative feelings don't always indicate an issue exclusive to the feeler, they can very well indicate a problem within another party.

The LDS Church does have problems, does cause pain, and can improve. One does not have to be non or exmo to know this. 

Maybe one could ask why a person could be hurt enough by the church that one of the sweetest, human-affirming Mormon songs would induce feelings of revulsion. This is entirely a possibility, and it can and should be considered by those who still uphold, sustain, and participate in the church, for its health, its members health, and its health as a social institution across the globe.

This should be an LDS-friendly and faith-affirming topic.

(I have a friend who was molested chrinically by a an LDS authority who had received his second anointing. He is still an active believer and has never reported the offender.)

Do you want the church to become better and more faith-affirming?

 

As long as it is understood that just because someone feels hurt by someone/something it doesn't mean that someone/something is automatically to blame. If you feel hurt because I won't give you $20 that doesn't mean I am responsible for your hurt.

I'm willing to look at both sides. 

 

 

[juliann]

18 minutes ago, JulieM said:

I've seen several references now to JC's "own board".  I wasn't aware he had one. I know you can't post a link, but does his forum have a name?  Just curious why he posts here if he has a board of his own (?)

And there's a discussion about his plane experience going on there too?  Very strange....

Way back when, the haters followed us here from ZLMB. Mind you, we had come here to escape them. When we started banning them for the same behavior that we thought we had left behind, they became hysterical. They started their own board which they proclaimed to be free from such horror and promptly began banning and censoring themselves. There is something really, really irrational about a group of people who go to private board (these places aren't free) and tell them what the rules should be and then scream at them when they can't do what they want. It was as if police had come and dragged them out of their homes, it was a sense of entitlement like I have never seen.  Well, obviously the place didn't attract Mormons. So they would bring our threads over there and do their voodoo on the Mormons. But it is no fun without an audience. So we got the never ending sock puppets. They really can't live without us and I'm not kidding. 

So those here  who want to kick the dog here have a nice big shiny message board of their own to say and do whatever they can think of in complete freedom and with an adoring audience....but I guess just talking about kicking dogs isn't enough, they have to actually have a dog to kick.It's called Mormon Discussions. Nemesis did something to block linking here cause they would try to create board wars by linking to their threads there in an attempt to move the beat down over here. 

I don't even have to look to know the feeding frenzy that must be going on over there right now. LOL We are all happy they have a place and that it helps their recovery and healing. We don't bother them, we don't troll them, we don't demand "rights" on their turf. We only ask the privilege of having our own space. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by juliann

[juliann]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

Funny, I went there too.  It was as much having something familiar.

I was serious about Imagine as an option, it being better known.

Interesting that JC didn't respond to that question.

The neighbour have started up the music early...sounds like Disney this time around.

Should I start gagging now or wait for a particular song (It's a small world might work).

Well, only if it slyly includes your disdain for their religious identity as well. 

[Rain]

27 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Too bad it wasn't something a little universal...like "The Lord's Prayer"...

The words to I am a Child of God is not any less universal.  

Even if we don't look at words and meaning of the song it isn't exclusively sung by mormons. It was a surprise to me to find out years ago that the song is sung in other churches, but it showed me it wasn't only an LDS song. 

[Meadowchik]

23 minutes ago, juliann said:

AGAIN, this is true.

And has nothing to do with someone coming HERE and using words like gag inducing to describe what our peers do in a moment of panic when they have their own board that welcomes it.  I'm sure you would be very welcome there as well if all you do is criticize Mormons. 

And even if I only did criticise the Mormon church, I could still be welcome here:

"THE PURPOSE OF MORMON DIALOGUE AND DISCUSSION: People of all faiths are welcome to engage in substantive and civil discussion about topics related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Mormonism in general."

This could be an epiphany for anyone:

In an airplane experiencing terrifying turbulance, several passengers may be experiencing one of the strongest spiritual experiences of their life as they sing or hear sung "I am a Child of God," while others whose anxiety is only worsened by the song.

Human experience is interesting. 

[Meadowchik]

10 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

As long as it is understood that just because someone feels hurt by someone/something it doesn't mean that someone/something is automatically to blame. If you feel hurt because I won't give you $20 that doesn't mean I am responsible for your hurt.

I'm willing to look at both sides. 

 

 

So am I. 

If you notice, a great deal of the initial reactions to the OP were attacking the validity of the OPs feelings, not even considering that they might be legitimately rooted in being hurt by the church.

[Meadowchik]

15 minutes ago, juliann said:

Way back when, the haters followed us here from ZLMB. Mind you, we had come here to escape them. When we started banning them for the same behavior that we thought we had left behind, they became hysterical. They started their own board which they proclaimed to be free from such horror and promptly began banning and censoring themselves. There is something really, really irrational about a group of people who go to private board (these places aren't free) and tell them what the rules should be and then scream at them when they can't do what they want. It was as if police had come and dragged them out of their homes, it was a sense of entitlement like I have never seen.  Well, obviously the place didn't attract Mormons. So they would bring our threads over there and do their voodoo on the Mormons. But it is no fun without an audience. So we got the never ending sock puppets. They really can't live without us and I'm not kidding. 

So those here  who want to kick the dog here have a nice big shiny message board of their own to say and do whatever they can think of in complete freedom and with an adoring audience....but I guess just talking about kicking dogs isn't enough, they have to actually have a dog to kick.It's called Mormon Discussions. Nemesis did something to block linking here cause they would try to create board wars by linking to their threads there in an attempt to move the beat down over here. 

I don't even have to look to know the feeding frenzy that must be going on over there right now. LOL We are all happy they have a place and that it helps their recovery and healing. We don't bother them, we don't troll them, we don't demand "rights" on their turf. We only ask the privilege of having our own space. 

Having your own faith-affirming space is not the purpose of this board. There are other boards created for that purpose.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Meadowchik

[juliann]

7 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

And even if I only did criticise the Mormon church, I could still be welcome here:

"THE PURPOSE OF MORMON DIALOGUE AND DISCUSSION: People of all faiths are welcome to engage in substantive and civil discussion about topics related to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Mormonism in general."

 

And guess who wrote that and decides what it means. The owner of the board. I'm just guessing that "substantive and civil" may not mean the same thing to the owner as it might to you if your purpose is to only criticize. 

 

Quote

 

In an airplane experiencing terrifying turbulance, several passengers may be experiencing one of the strongest gag triggering spiritual experiences of their life as Mormons sing or hear sung "I am a Child of God," while others whose anxiety and gag reflexes are only worsened by the song.

Human experience is interesting. 

 

If only that was what happened in this thread and what the rest of us are talking about. I fixed it for you.

[SteveO]

12 minutes ago, juliann said:

Way back when, the haters followed us here from ZLMB. Mind you, we had come here to escape them. When we started banning them for the same behavior that we thought we had left behind, they became hysterical. They started their own board which they proclaimed to be free from such horror and promptly began banning and censoring themselves. There is something really, really irrational about a group of people who go to private board (these places aren't free) and tell them what the rules should be and then scream at them when they can't do what they want. It was as if police had come and dragged them out of their homes, it was a sense of entitlement like I have never seen.  Well, obviously the place didn't attract Mormons. So they would bring our threads over there and do their voodoo on the Mormons. But it is no fun without an audience. So we got the never ending sock puppets. They really can't live without us and I'm not kidding. 

So those here  who want to kick the dog here have a nice big shiny message board of their own to say and do whatever they can think of in complete freedom and with an adoring audience....but I guess just talking about kicking dogs isn't enough, they have to actually have a dog to kick.It's called Mormon Discussions. Nemesis did something to block linking here cause they would try to create board wars by linking to their threads there in an attempt to move the beat down over here. 

I don't even have to look to know the feeding frenzy that must be going on over there right now. LOL We are all happy they have a place and that it helps their recovery and healing. We don't bother them, we don't troll them, we don't demand "rights" on their turf. We only ask the privilege of having our own space. 

Just out of curiosity, has anyone on that board ever "recovered" completely from Mormonism?  Any success stories?  At what point do people get over it and finally move on with their lives?

[Rain]

1 minute ago, Meadowchik said:

So am I. 

If you notice, a great deal of the initial reactions to the OP were attacking the validity of the OPs feelings, not even considering that they might be legitimately rooted in being hurt by the church.

Serious question. Did you consider that his feelings might not be legitimately rooted in being hurt by the church?

[juliann]

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

Having your own faith-affirming space is not the purpose of this board. There are other boards created for that purpose.

OH. MY. GOSH. You are really going to tell me what the purpose of a board I ran before Nemesis took over? (It hasn't really changed.) 

That is what I was talking about earlier. Where does this sense of ownership come from? Can I tell you what to do and think on your property?  Do you know what it takes to create and maintain a board? Do you pay for this board? The software? The server? 

Of course it needs critics. But it needs the Mormons more because critics are a dime a dozen, to be blunt. Not once has this place suffered for their loss, which even surprised me. They are always replaceable because it is darn easy to do nothing but take potshots. It is sport. Not so easy to defend against those who do.

How many Mormons have to line up, on a board started and dedicated to them, and say stop it? We have had enough. Be decent.

[Meadowchik]

3 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone on that board ever "recovered" completely from Mormonism?  Any success stories?  At what point do people get over it and finally move on with their lives?

From what I hear, the more recovered a person is, the less they feel the need to participate in spaces intended for venting about or criticising the church.

The sick and injured tend to frequent hospitals and doctors offices, too

[Meadowchik]

Just now, juliann said:

OH. MY. GOSH. You are really going to tell me what the purpose of a board I ran before Nemesis took over? (It hasn't really changed.) 

That is what I was talking about earlier. Where does this sense of ownership come from? Can I tell you what to do and think on your property?  Do you know what it takes to create and maintain a board? Do you pay for this board? The software? The server? 

Of course it needs critics. But it needs the Mormons more because critics are a dime a dozen, to be blunt. Not once has this place suffered for their loss, which even surprised me. They are always replaceable because it is darn easy to do nothing but take potshots. It is sport. Not so easy to defend against those who do.

How many Mormons have to line up, on a board started and dedicated to them, and say stop it? We have had enough. Be decent.

All I did was read the purpose as stated in rhe guidelines. It is unfortunate that this thread has unravelled so unnecessarily.  

I have been decent here. I belong here as much as anyone else. Please stop.

[Calm]

9 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone on that board ever "recovered" completely from Mormonism?  Any success stories?  At what point do people get over it and finally move on with their lives?

It probably is both off topic for the thread and off limits for the board depending on how it is answered.

If you want to know, the only effective way imo is to go ask in that board...maybe look at who posted a lot in the beginning and hasn't said anything for years.  Even then it might be iffy given they could be vocalizing elsewhere, but it would point you in the right direction.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

 

I have been decent here. I belong here as much as anyone else. Please stop.

We are all guests save for the owner.

[juliann]

40 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Just out of curiosity, has anyone on that board ever "recovered" completely from Mormonism?  Any success stories?  At what point do people get over it and finally move on with their lives?

To be honest, it was so toxic and defamatory that I don't look anymore. Others do which is how I learned JCake was previously  in full form over there laughing about what he was pulling over here. Go find his stuff. What I was shown were quotes. 

There have been "success" stories, don't know about over there. Like I said before, my theory is that this is a fight over the community not the church. It is the community they want access to, in the same way they demand access and approval from this board community. It kind of functions as a microcosm. I think that is why it is so hard for us to understand why they don't just go live their lives (as most leave takers do.) 

Edited April 15, 2017 by juliann

[juliann]

6 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

All I did was read the purpose as stated in rhe guidelines. It is unfortunate that this thread has unravelled so unnecessarily.  

I have been decent here. I belong here as much as anyone else. Please stop.

Sorry Meadowchik, I have always followed you and it has been hurtful to read the things you are saying about us now. I hope you find peace and stay with us.

[Bernard Gui]

2 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I think this is more true than not.  I love "I Am A Child of God"...but there has got to be another song grandkids can sing at an LDS funeral...As for JC experience..to me it would be whatever works on a personal level for those who are in the crisis.  But yeah..if you have been a mormon and no longer a mormon..you feel a different kind of alienation because you know what it is like to be a part of the group..and then not.  Sometimes it begs a question of "who am I to God" when somehow faced in a collective group that you know already defines you as an outsider. 

Any ex-Catholics reading who would object to a Catholic person praying out loud or crossing herself or clutching a crucifix? Would those trigger the gag reflex? How about a non-practicing Jew hearing a Hebrew prayer? Or an ex-Evangelical hearing someone cry "Save me Jesus!"? Or any other religious person giving a final utterance?  Or an atheist in the foxhole doing whatever it is he does....as JC said, figuring it's just what happens, so what the heck? Why is it just the Mormons who aren't allowed this?

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, JulieM said:

Well, there are probably people here who this would "kind of trigger a gag reflex" if they heard someone start to sing that song when they all feared they were about to die.

Afterwards would they maybe question the appropriateness of singing "Imagine" at that moment?  I don't know...but I think some may feel that way.

I gag whenever I hear Imagine. One time I was had a nightmare in which I thought I heard someone singing Imagine. When I woke up someone was really singing it. 

[Bernard Gui]

7 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

For me it really came down to the appropriateness of singing that song at that moment...for me it was ill timed. 
 

But as to your point...you may be correct.  I'm a non member and yet my life is immersed in Mormonism.  Despite everything I do I can not excape its grasp.  So yes my reaction was partically based on this reality I'm sure...not even at this point could I escape the church...its everywhere arggggggg

So why post here?  It's about processing my Mormon experience...its part of my recovery and healing from the religion

I have two sons who have left the Church and found many ways not to be immersed in Mormonism. We respect their choices.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This just sparked a memory. Not a distant one, but something I just remembered. Have you heard of Cherry Hill in Fruit Heights, Utah? It's a campground plus waterpark, miniature golf etc. Every summer they have free concerts on Friday & Saturday nights. It started many years ago, but before concerts they would have a movie about the church. Then they started having the concerts and a lot of local talent perform. I live in the area and for years various wards will take part in being member missionaries to the campers or visitors.

Last summer I and my husband passed out papers in the campground before the concert started, with the missionary info in case anyone would like to know more about the LDS church. Even with my faith crisis I'm going along with it, because I couldn't say no when asked to do it in my ward, and there was something in the back of my mind that it could be true.

But back to the concert, at the end of every concert they will have the audience sing "I am a child of God". My husband and I will often go to these concerts and enjoy the music, most of them very good. But when they sing that song, it does feel strange to me, because I know there are several non Mormons there. I never gagged but it didn't feel right for some reason. 

Leave before the song?

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Bernard Gui said:

Leave before the song?

I didn't gag remember? I just didn't find myself singing along. It's just fine.

[Bernard Gui]

5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Is the following meme true? And do the members get angry back.... I think they do...

Elder Holland's quote: "Don’t you dare bail. I am so furious with people who leave this church. I don’t know whether furious is a good apostolic word. But I am. What on earth kind of conviction is that? What kind of patty-cake, taffy-pulled experiences is that? As if, as if none of this ever mattered; as if nothing in our contemporary life mattered; as if this was all just supposed to be just exactly the way I want it?"

Well, the meme may describe a few people's reaction, but aren't memes memes because they generally reflect reality?
In this case, no, it's not true.