I’m Back, Did You Miss Me? Appropriateness of Singing I am a Child of God

[juliann]

3 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Ok I give up...

But didn't you say "But I believe that that is a good thing...each of us should be willing to have our POV challenged and our conventional wisdoms questioned"?

Or did you mean each Mormon should be willing....

[Johnnie Cake]

7 minutes ago, juliann said:

This is laugh worthy. There are rules for what is appropriate if Mormons think they are about to die a horrible death? I thought I'd seen everything demanded of Mormons....this is a new one. And a memorable one that I am sure will find future use. 

What surprises me the most is that you just keep digging the hole deeper......

As to you behavior on your other board, it is consistent with your behavior here. You, along with your pals,  are here to post "honest" threads that make us cringe. For our own good. But when you are challenged and questioned with honest responses to a quite icky remark, it is an attack and misunderstanding.

And you know the worst part, aside from the two faced stuff? It is that you and your pals congregate on another board to brag, back slap, and congratulate yourselves over your cringe worthy comments. You then silently watch the despicable comments you have generated there. Why in the world you think that you are invisible can only speak to the same arrogance that allows you to think you are tutoring needy people who have told you in no uncertain terms to knock off the ugly comments. 

You and your honest post posting pals have accomplished something spectacular, however. We squabble amongst ourselves, but you have managed to pull us together because enough is enough. When all is said and done, we squabblers will protect what holds us together.

 

Taken completely out of context. But if it serves your need to pigeonhole me  feel free to take liberties and mischaracterize my comments 

[SteveO]

11 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Ok I give up...

You're back...did you miss us?

[Jeanne]

This is all so interesting...so a question.  What would everyone's comments be like if say..Scott Lloyd maybe..flying home from a Mormon Tabernacle Choir performance goes through what JC went through..and some poor soul starts singing "Imagine"??  Scott reports it was quite an experience but became quite ill at the very thought that someone would sing this song...the closest word he can come up with is a gag reflex...I am thinking this whole thread would be  different story.

(Meanwhile...Jeanne silently and slowly backs out of this thread)

[Calm]

JC, feel free to provide that context rather than just protesting.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This is all so interesting...so a question.  What would everyone's comments be like if say..Scott Lloyd maybe..flying home from a Mormon Tabernacle Choir performance goes through what JC went through..and some poor soul starts singing "Imagine"??  Scott reports it was quite an experience but became quite ill at the very thought that someone would sing this song...the closest word he can come up with is a gag reflex...I am thinking this whole thread would be  different story.

(Meanwhile...Jeanne silently and slowly backs out of this thread)

My response would be identical.  Anyone who prefers listening to people scream in terror rather than be able to calm themselves through a song AND feels the need to present this attitude to a group of people along with a statement of his own superior bravery probably needs sometime for self introspection.

Given "Imagine" has already been discussed in the thread (save by JC who was the one asked...he has spent most of his time condemning others for their reaction rather than taking the time for processing his experience(s) which he claimed was the purpose of his posting), from people's comments I doubt that much would change.

I have little issue with the gag response as it could very well be a coping mechanism to deal with one's own fear along with the reassurances of one's own bravery...it is the public display of that attitude for judgment that I find strange and inconsistent with various claims of feeling the very people he seeks out are overly intrusive in his life (why seek out more intrusion when there are others who are not members happy to discuss it with him elsewhere?), the very people he seeks judgment from by posting he condemns for making a judgment, the coy shock at the reaction when he has had plenty of blowback for his comments before...if he is sincere and not playing passive aggressive games, he is not a particularly insightful individual.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[juliann]

5 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Taken completely out of context. But if it serves your need to pigeonhole me  feel free to take liberties and mischaracterize my comments 

Well do provide the context of that remark. In fact, provide all of the comments that precede or follow it.

 

[SteveO]

Just now, Jeanne said:

This is all so interesting...so a question.  What would everyone's comments be like if say..Scott Lloyd maybe..flying home from a Mormon Tabernacle Choir performance goes through what JC went through..and some poor soul starts singing "Imagine"??  Scott reports it was quite an experience but became quite ill at the very thought that someone would sing this song...the closest word he can come up with is a gag reflex...I am thinking this whole thread would be  different story.

(Meanwhile...Jeanne silently and slowly backs out of this thread)

I don't think Scott would post something like that in the first place.

I guess we're making up hypotheticals now to justify immature, nitpicking, mean spirited posts now?

[Jeanne]

Just now, Calm said:

My response would be identical.

Yeah,,I so respect that.  You know yourself Calm.  I like that you are so consistent and fair.

[juliann]

4 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This is all so interesting...so a question.  What would everyone's comments be like if say..Scott Lloyd maybe..flying home from a Mormon Tabernacle Choir performance goes through what JC went through..and some poor soul starts singing "Imagine"??  Scott reports it was quite an experience but became quite ill at the very thought that someone would sing this song...the closest word he can come up with is a gag reflex...I am thinking this whole thread would be  different story.

(Meanwhile...Jeanne silently and slowly backs out of this thread)

That is a disgusting thing to do. Have you not been reading the posts? 

I'm not sure "Imagine" would be particularly comforting at that time, though. That is exactly what they are already doing....

[Jeanne]

Just now, SteveO said:

I don't think Scott would post something like that in the first place.

I guess we're makig up hypotheticals now to justify immature, nitpicking, mean spirited posts now?

Yes, my curiosity got the best of me when just wondering and trying to make a direct question more understandable.  Shouldn't have asked it this way but didn't know of any other way. 

[Jeanne]

Just now, juliann said:

That is a disgusting thing to do. Have you not been reading the posts? 

I'm not sure "Imagine" would be particularly comforting at that time, though. That is exactly what they are already doing....

Oh.I don't think any song would be appropriate for everyone  And yes, I have read the posts and participating.."Imagine" was already mentioned a couple of times...I was just curious is all.  Thanks for making me disgusting..

[JulieM]

28 minutes ago, SteveO said:

I don't think Scott would post something like that in the first place.

Maybe not, but I'll bet Bobbieaware would  (Just a reference to a recent thread about this song!)

This thread has been amazing to follow and I tried to give my honest thoughts (as I know others did too).

I'm pretty taken aback by how JC (and Tacenda and possibly others I missed) have been treated really.  I know what JC originally posted offended some, but did he really deserve the hatred, vitriol and attacks in return?

IMO, someone coming across this site for the first time and reading this thread, would be much more offended by how JC has been treated by active Mormons than by what he wrote in his OP.

I think I'm done here at least for awhile.  Maybe all those with questions and struggles and doubts who don't fall in line here, should just leave and allow all those who want their "board back" to have their board back.

Edited April 16, 2017 by JulieM

[Scott Lloyd]

5 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

This is all so interesting...so a question.  What would everyone's comments be like if say..Scott Lloyd maybe..flying home from a Mormon Tabernacle Choir performance goes through what JC went through..and some poor soul starts singing "Imagine"??  Scott reports it was quite an experience but became quite ill at the very thought that someone would sing this song...the closest word he can come up with is a gag reflex...I am thinking this whole thread would be  different story.

(Meanwhile...Jeanne silently and slowly backs out of this thread)

I haven't been interested in this thread enough to comment in it. But since, Jeanne has presumed to press my name into service for her argument, let me quickly assure everyone that I would never be so petty and querulous as to begrudge anyone doing whatever harmless thing that brought them comfort in such a stressful situation. 

This reminds me of those who complain about Mormons doing vicarious temple work thinking they can stymie me by saying, "What if I were to baptize your dead father a Pagan?" My response to such a thing has always been: "Since I believe it would be an empty and harmless ritual with no efficacy whatever, it wouldn't bother me in the least."

[MorningStar]

It seems to me there is an element of, "You see, these people say they have faith in God and an afterlife, but once faced with the reality of dying and meeting God, they were terrified, so their faith must not be real or as strong as they thought and therefore the church isn't true."  I've heard Atheists make comments like that over the years - that if you know there's a God, then you should be happy about the thought of dying, but in this scenario, even the Atheist isn't afraid, so it must be the Atheist that has it all together.  Is that what you're getting at?  This is at the same level as Atheists telling stories about climbing a mountain and having a spiritual experience even though they don't believe in God and they were just having feelings and therefore people who believe in God just have feelings too and are deluded into thinking that their feelings come from God rather than their brains. 

Also, how does interacting with a bunch of Mormons on a message board help you heal from the religion? 

When you're an Atheist and your plane is possibly going down, no one ever comforts you with the Flying Spaghetti Monster song.  Is there a Flying Spaghetti Monster song?   

[Calm]

22 minutes ago, juliann said:

I'm not sure "Imagine" would be particularly comforting at that time, though. That is exactly what they are already doing....

It is a familiar song that would occupy the mind and body, .I think it would be comforting just for that reason.  Plus a number of people have good feelings associated with it, kind of like a warm sugary treat...caramel brownie let's say (with or without the Mary Jane).  So comforting for that reason.  And even if one gets distracted into an inner conversation on whether or not what the song implies for what may be coming up is a good thing, the philosophical sidetrack is again distracting.

I do think its slow pace would be counterproductive, you need something a bit faster that can keep up with the need to scream.  

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

It is unfortunate this is not a popular song:

 

[Jeanne]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I haven't been interested in this thread enough to comment in it. But since, Jeanne has presumed to press my name into service for her argument, let me quickly assure everyone that I would never be so petty and querulous as to begrudge anyone doing whatever harmless thing that brought them comfort in such a stressful situation. 

This reminds me of those who complain about Mormons doing vicarious temple work thinking they can stymie me by saying, "What if I were to baptize your dead father a Pagan?" My response to such a thing has always been: "Since I believe it would be an empty and harmless ritual with no efficacy whatever, it wouldn't bother me in the least."

Thank you Scott for your comment.  The reason I picked you in my little what if story was I knew you traveled a bit and well respected on this board.  I meant no offense.

[Scott Lloyd]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is a familiar song that would occupy the mind and body, .I think it would be comforting just for that reason.  Plus a number of people have good feelings associated with it, kind of like a warm sugary treat...caramel brownie let's say (with or without the Mary Jane).  So comforting for that reason.  And even if one gets distracted into an inner conversation on whether or not what the song implies for what may be coming up is a good thing, the philosophical sidetrack is again distracting.

I do think its slow pace would be counterproductive, you need something a bit faster that can keep up with the need to scream.  

Something from the late, great Chuck Berry, perhaps. "Johnnie B. Goode" comes to mind. Or "Roll Over Beethoven."

 

[Jeanne]

18 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Maybe not, but I'll bet Bobbieaware would 

This thread has been amazing to follow and I tried to give my honest thoughts (as I know others did too).

I'm pretty taken aback by how JC (and Tacenda and possibly others I missed) have been treated really.  I know what JC originally posted offended some, but did he really deserve the hatred, vitriol and attacks in return?

IMO, someone coming across this site for the first time and reading this thread, would be much more offended by how JC has been treated by active Mormons than by what he wrote in his OP.

I think I'm done here at least for awhile.  Maybe all those with questions and struggles and doubts who don't fall in line here, should just leave and allow all those who want their "board back" to have their board back.

As of now..I am really backing of the thread here...who wants to think about songs when they die????  (Although my husband requested "Hotel California" for his funeral..

So really this time..you don't even have to imagine..Jeanne..walking silently and slowly out of this thread...I have enjoyed a lot of insight though and thank you all for that!  One has to admit that JC brings up some topics we would never think of.  Happy Easter everyone...we are all forgiven through the great love of the Savior. 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

Oh.I don't think any song would be appropriate for everyone  And yes, I have read the posts and participating.."Imagine" was already mentioned a couple of times...I was just curious is all.  Thanks for making me disgusting..

Disgusting thing to do is not you disgusting...we all do disgusting things from time to time.  It is limiting them to less public performances that is important.

PS:  I read .Juliann's post correct the first (as in it was disgusting whoever was making that kind of comment)  So easy to assume others' interpretations is the correct one asxI wasn't paying close enough attention the second time through as a quote...just goes to so you how easy it is to be misguided, unintentionally or intentionally if we aren't paying close attention or aren't aware of it.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Calm

[Maureen]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

It is unfortunate this is not a popular song:

 

This is actually funny in that weird, inappropriate funny way.

M.

[Rain]

3 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

CFR that I have a history of tearing down the church. CFR that I exhibited any contempt...yes I had a visceral reaction...where did I express contempt? 

There is a lot of jumping to judgement by board members towards my post. Yes I ask tough questions because I have questions, but you're judging this post on some assumed history I'm supposed to have...again many are ju,ping to conclusions and judgements based on some imagined history. So again please provide evidence of your claim that I have a history of tearing down the church

I said what "seems to be" tearing down of the church. I did not say you tear the church. Meaning this is how you come across to many. I would be really surprised if you truly did not realize that you are perceived to be doing this. Because of that perceprion, when you tell about gagging over this song and you question the appropriateness of people's reactions by singing it then it doesn't help that perception.

But in the interest of good faith and because I don't care to search I will withdraw that you have torn down the church.

Regardless of whether you tear down the church or not you may have missed my main point. My impression is that either you don't like the way you are viewed, but want to make what you see as positive changes or you like saying things that other people react to and you enjoy those reactions. 

If you want to make positive changes then you need to consider what you are saying and how you are saying it. The advice is good for everyone, but before you left awhile ago, if I remember right, you expressed frustration over this so I'm putting my two cents worth in with you.

[Calm]

29 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Maybe not, but I'll bet Bobbieaware would  (Just a reference to a recent thread about this song!)...

I'm pretty taken aback by how JC (and Tacenda and possibly others I missed) have been treated really.  I know what JC originally posted offended some, but did he really deserve the hatred, vitriol and attacks in return?

 

"Hatred"....if strong disagreement and criticism amounts to hatred, the world is hopeless and we should all die right now.

Anyone want to join me for a few bars of "we're all going to die!"?

If someone is reading hatred and anger into another's post that isn't filled with swear words or a more gentile equivalent, maybe they should consider what emotions they are reading into the post.  They may find a more cautious appraisal of another's emotion will result in a significantly different reading.

-----

Bobbieaware, due to what she has said in the past, is the only one I feel would come close to having a gag reaction and then believe telling about it was a useful conversation to have amongst a number of atheists, though I doubt she would see it as her processing her experiences.  I would be interested to see if she thinks she might do that.

[Calm]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Something from the late, great Chuck Berry, perhaps. "Johnnie B. Goode" comes to mind. Or "Roll Over Beethoven."

 

Speed is right, need something people know at least one full verse to though.