I’m Back, Did You Miss Me? Appropriateness of Singing I am a Child of God

[Jeanne]

2 hours ago, JulieM said:

I've seen several references now to JC's "own board".  I wasn't aware he had one. I know you can't post a link, but does his forum have a name?  Just curious why he posts here if he has a board of his own (?)

And there's a discussion about his plane experience going on there too?  Very strange....

No..there is not.  JC and I rarely post over there..

Edited April 15, 2017 by Jeanne

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I know the group that is on this thread and I thought they could take it. It isn't what I thought any of them would do, never. But what maybe has happened to people like JC. ETA: Or I think I know them from being on here nonstop. But I will definitely take it off, and if anyone quoted me, will you do the same?

I can "take it".

If you had a specific situation with the way people were treating you badly I would listen.  I would even consider if there was anything I could do to help you through being treated badly. If it were happening in a place where I could do anything about it I would stand up for you. That's what a friend does.  But dropping something like that, that you feel doesn't apply to me, because I can "take it" is just mean.

This reminds me of a small group of friends I had on the internet. We all met online.  Most of us were LDS, but not all of us.  We started getting together from places across the country once a year.  I had these women staying in my home and sleeping in my children's bed.  Then one day one of them surprised everyone by saying she was leaving the church, knew none of us would ever want to be in contact with her again.  Knew she wouldn't be treated well etc.  Everyone was stunned.  But I think the thing that bothered everyone the most is that after years of friendship she believed the stories of ill treatment over our friendship with her.  She didn't even give everyone a chance before accusing everyone of unChristlike behavior.   

 

[Rain]

14 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I guess my word usage must just be lame or something. I take back "take it".

It's not the word usage.  It's what is behind the word usage.

[Tacenda]

3 minutes ago, Rain said:

I can "take it".

If you had a specific situation with the way people were treating you badly I would listen.  I would even consider if there was anything I could do to help you through being treated badly. If it were happening in a place where I could do anything about it I would stand up for you. That's what a friend does.  But dropping something like that, that you feel doesn't apply to me, because I can "take it" is just mean.

This reminds me of a small group of friends I had on the internet. We all met online.  Most of us were LDS, but not all of us.  We started getting together from places across the country once a year.  I had these women staying in my home and sleeping in my children's bed.  Then one day one of them surprised everyone by saying she was leaving the church, knew none of us would ever want to be in contact with her again.  Knew she wouldn't be treated well etc.  Everyone was stunned.  But I think the thing that bothered everyone the most is that after years of friendship she believed the stories of ill treatment over our friendship with her.  She didn't even give everyone a chance before accusing everyone of unChristlike behavior.   

 

Sorry Rain, really am. It wasn't one of my better moments.

[bluebell]

4 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

All caps is shouting.

Feelings are feelings. They are indicators of what is going on inside a person, often involving themselves and relationships with other people.

And negative feelings don't always indicate an issue exclusive to the feeler, they can very well indicate a problem within another party.

The LDS Church does have problems, does cause pain, and can improve. One does not have to be non or exmo to know this. 

Maybe one could ask why a person could be hurt enough by the church that one of the sweetest, human-affirming Mormon songs would induce feelings of revulsion. This is entirely a possibility, and it can and should be considered by those who still uphold, sustain, and participate in the church, for its health, its members health, and its health as a social institution across the globe.

This should be an LDS-friendly and faith-affirming topic.

(I have a friend who was molested chrinically by a an LDS authority who had received his second anointing. He is still an active believer and has never reported the offender.)

Do you want the church to become better and more faith-affirming?

I'm sorry, I should have said no reason to get excited. 

I already asked him why he had the reaction that he did. This is his answer-

"I respect the screaming, tears, crying and panic but when she burst into song I thought (this isn't what I thought but I'll put in words appropriate for MD&D) "good grief really". All I wanted to do was die in peace but no even this was going to be taken away from me by the freaking mormons on board."

As to the other points in your post, the church is comprised of humans who sometimes do hurtful things. There is nothing that the church can do to ensure that members won't sometimes choose to embrace sin.  Enduring sinful people who cause hurt and harm is a part of life, regardless of whether you are a member or not.  That is the consequence of agency. Even members are free to choose evil if they want to.

Edited April 16, 2017 by bluebell

[juliann]

30 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I guess my word usage must just be lame or something. I take back "take it".

Wow. My brain has taken it back. It doesn't even remember seeing it!  

From HuffPost in how to deal with passive-aggressive people: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/26/stop-being-passive-aggressive-behavior-signs-_n_5515877.html

1. Identify the behavior for what it is, hostility.

2. Set limits, then follow through.

3. Talk specifically not generally.

4. Practice assertive communication.

 

What you do is hostile. Rather than modifying your behavior, you follow up with  "I take it back" or giggle about being a bad person.  Then you do the same thing the next time. Over. And Over. And Over. 

So this is identifying, following through, talking specifically, and being assertive. Knock it off. You are on a Mormon board. We aren't stupid. We know when posters are dragging stuff from hostile sites to get reactions from us.  Someone will stumble over those who put on one face here and another somewhere else. And some of us talk to each other! This board has produced a tight little group of Mormons. And you are ignoring the very nicely hints that you need to stop what you are doing.

We want our board back. And it is our board. There are all kinds of ways to criticize or be the loyal opposition. But a stream of crappy pictures, quotes, with the same "innocent" question or comment that was answered the week before isn't the way. 

Addendum: "Sorry Rain, really am. It wasn't one of my better moments."  We. hear. this. every. dang. time. And you will be back at it by Monday. 

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by juliann

[bluebell]

26 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

No..there is not.  JC and I rarely post over there..

I don't think that some of the people who post in both places realize how much we hear about it over here.  I've never even been on the other message board and even I hear reports about two faced posters. 

It's pretty entertaining to read some of the high-fiving that goes on over there when they think they are successfully tricking or manipulating posters over here.  

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, juliann said:

Wow. My brain has taken it back. It doesn't even remember seeing it!  

From HuffPost in how to deal with passive-aggressive people: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/26/stop-being-passive-aggressive-behavior-signs-_n_5515877.html

1. Identify the behavior for what it is, hostility.

2. Set limits, then follow through.

3. Talk specifically not generally.

4. Practice assertive communication.

 

What you do is hostile. Rather than modifying your behavior, you follow up with  "I take it back" or giggle about being a bad person.  Then you do the same thing the next time. Over. And Over. And Over. 

So this is identifying, following through, talking specifically, and being assertive. Knock it off. You are on a Mormon board. We aren't stupid. We know when posters are dragging stuff from hostile sites to get reactions from us.  Someone will stumble over those who put on one face here and another somewhere else. And some of us talk to each other! This board has produced a tight little group of Mormons. And you are ignoring the very nicely hints that you need to stop what you are doing.

We want our board back. And it is our board. There are all kinds of ways to criticize or be the loyal opposition. But a stream of crappy pictures, quotes, with the same "innocent" question or comment that was answered the week before isn't the way. 

Addendum: "Sorry Rain, really am. It wasn't one of my better moments."  We. hear. this. every. dang. time. And you will be back at it by Monday. 

 

Well taken, and I will be back until someone on this board bans me. So will someone please do that? Because I can't stay away. And I didn't giggle at all, about the devil on my shoulder. It was my attempt at being funny maybe. The only way to get rid of me is to ban me. It might just be the best thing for me, and I will still visit, and still appreciate a lot of people on here. But from the sidelines. I am the black sheep of this family, but I do care about the members on here, but still have feelings of anger too of losing a good portion of my life over my faith transition. I can't go be with the ex Mormons and I can't go be with the TBM's either. It's a state of being in the middle, and not being able to jump down off the fence on either side. This board is like family and I count many as friends, I seriously have so few friends it's not even funny. Not trying to get sympathy though, please don't take it like that. I'm just telling the truth. I suck at being around people in real life too. 

[JulieM]

6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well taken, and I will be back until someone on this board bans me. So will someone please do that? Because I can't stay away. And I didn't giggle at all, about the devil on my shoulder. It was my attempt at being funny maybe. The only way to get rid of me is to ban me. It might just be the best thing for me, and I will still visit, and still appreciate a lot of people on here. But from the sidelines. I am the black sheep of this family, but I do care about the members on here, but still have feelings of anger too of losing a good portion of my life over my faith transition. I can't go be with the ex Mormons and I can't go be with the TBM's either. It's a state of being in the middle, and not being able to jump down off the fence on either side. This board is like family and I count many as friends, I seriously have so few friends it's not even funny. Not trying to get sympathy though, please don't take it like that. I'm just telling the truth. I suck at being around people in real life too. 

Tacenda, you're one of my favorite posters on here!  Please stick around 😊

I love your openness and honesty.  You're not afraid to be raw and real and I can relate to so many of the things you express.  You're also never afraid to admit you're wrong and try to learn from others.

I have no idea what has gone on here behind the scenes, but there seems to be a lot of anger coming out on this thread (not saying it's not justified as I simply don't know the history here).  But don't take it personally and please keep posting here!

[juliann]

8 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Well taken, and I will be back until someone on this board bans me. So will someone please do that? Because I can't stay away. And I didn't giggle at all, about the devil on my shoulder. It was my attempt at being funny maybe. The only way to get rid of me is to ban me. It might just be the best thing for me, and I will still visit, and still appreciate a lot of people on here. But from the sidelines. I am the black sheep of this family, but I do care about the members on here, but still have feelings of anger too of losing a good portion of my life over my faith transition. I can't go be with the ex Mormons and I can't go be with the TBM's either. It's a state of being in the middle, and not being able to jump down off the fence on either side. This board is like family and I count many as friends, I seriously have so few friends it's not even funny. Not trying to get sympathy though, please don't take it like that. I'm just telling the truth. I suck at being around people in real life too. 

I am not unsympathetic to your situation. But look what you just did. You get called out for being mean and you immediately hide behind a sad story about yourself, as usual. We can recite them by heart. But this isn't about you. It is about us being your dump site.  You are not used to being called on it. Get used to it. I'm going to tell the truth, too. 

[Calm]

31 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Tacenda, you're one of my favorite posters on here!  Please stick around 😊

I love your openness and honesty.  You're not afraid to be raw and real and I can relate to so many of the things you express.  You're also never afraid to admit you're wrong and try to learn from others.

I have no idea what has gone on here behind the scenes, but there seems to be a lot of anger coming out on this thread (not saying it's not justified as I simply don't know the history here).  But don't take it personally and please keep posting here!

It isn't anger.  It is frustration.

A lot of us have cared about Tacenda and her feelings since she joined.  We have spent long hours trying to find information for her, interacting with her, letting her speak her mind, sharing with her some deeply personal thoughts in hopes that something will help give her peace and a sense of stability or a sense of belonging.

At times she puts up stuff like the memes here and honestly it can feel like a good friend is eagerly sharing nasty gossip that is being spread around the schoolyard and asking "why would you do such a thing?"  She is always sincerely sorry when she does it, but she keeps doing it.  It really shouldn't be too hard after years of interacting with lots of people on this board to stop and try and imagine first what feelings a particular report may trigger, decide if it needs to be said or not, and if it needs to be said for a solid reason, to present it some way to show that there is trust there the portrayal is misguided if it is something extreme and applied generically to all Mormons.

Maybe this is something that could help Tacenda interact with others in real life (since she said she doesn't have many friends).  If she gets more positive feedback here, that could help with confidence (certainly did me); if this is a habit she has elsewhere, if she learns to modify it to a more constructive approach, it could prevent some awkward moments with people offline.

Tac, seriously, try to look on it as useful feedback and think what you could do to explain your feelings responses in more constructive ways.  We don't need or want Pollyanna, but there are ways to criticize without the trash.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[JulieM]

1 minute ago, Calm said:

It isn't anger.  It is frustration.

Well, like I said, I don't know the history here or what's gone on behind the scenes.  I just read that board when I get the chance and probably miss a lot.  I feel this board is a good balance which makes for some great discussions and I've learned from both sides.  It's helped me with where I'm at right now.  I love the church but love knowing truths I didn't know before too,

[Calm]

I think it is a good balance as well generally, but can get out of balance from time to time so needs some stronger efforts.

I think it shows a caring for Tacenda to point out serious misstepping.  Ignoring the negative is apathy, not caring, imo.

[Johnnie Cake]

10 hours ago, bluebell said:

I agree in that it speaks to some unhealthy issues in regards to Mormonism that hopefully JC can work out. 

We all have irrational reactions to some things. That doesn't mean they are ok or healthy or should be defended.

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

[Jeanne]

33 minutes ago, JulieM said:

Tacenda, you're one of my favorite posters on here!  Please stick around 😊

I love your openness and honesty.  You're not afraid to be raw and real and I can relate to so many of the things you express.  You're also never afraid to admit you're wrong and try to learn from others.

I have no idea what has gone on here behind the scenes, but there seems to be a lot of anger coming out on this thread (not saying it's not justified as I simply don't know the history here).  But don't take it personally and please keep posting here!

I agree....I know what Tacenda is kind of going through and i didn't have you guys at the time.  Tacenda is more than honest in her posts and is often ridiculed for being most loving and empathetic for those in any path in or out of the church which is why she ends up on a somebody's crap list.  Nothing is really funny to Tacenda...she takes everybodys problems and her own very seriously.

Julianne, you want your board back...that is fine  Make a list and send it to Nemisis...or knock it off. 

 

 

 

[juliann]

4 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

Oh gosh. THANK you. My fingers were bleeding and you have made it all better in two sentences.  But you forgot hysterical and emotional.  Tell her to relax and smile, too. 

[juliann]

2 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

 

Julianne, you want your board back...that is fine  Make a list and send it to Nemisis...or knock it off. 

Ah, if only it was just me....

[BlueDreams]

20 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

Not really. Make it any other group of people and it's not okay

"I respect the screaming, tears, crying and panic but when she burst into song I thought (this isn't what I thought but I'll put in words appropriate for MD&D) "good grief really". All I wanted to do was die in peace but no even this was going to be taken away from me by the freaking [Jews] on board."

"While being a non-[muslim] I must admit that it did kind of trigger my gag reflex…for the [muslims] it did seem to calm them down."

 

"As we made our last approach, amid the turbulence and panic there could be heard a single soft voice over the audible screams and cries, a lone [Nun] …began to pray out loud…”[using the rosary]" others began to join in…as a calm over took those who had only moments before failed to confront their fears.

While being a non-believer I must admit that it did kind of trigger my gag reflex…for the believers it did seem to calm them down."

It sounds even worse if you make it a racial/ethnic group:

"I respect the screaming, tears, crying and panic but when she burst into song I thought (this isn't what I thought but I'll put in words appropriate for MD&D) "good grief really". All I wanted to do was die in peace but no even this was going to be taken away from me by the freaking [Blacks] on board."

"While being a non-[Latino] I must admit that it did kind of trigger my gag reflex…for the [Latinos] it did seem to calm them down."

 

If this is somehow a little uncomfortable if stated with any other group....then there's something wrong. And It's probably not "over reacting" or "too sensitive." It comes off belittling and, as Juliann put it, a microaggression. 

 

With luv,

BD

Edited April 16, 2017 by BlueDreams

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

You are probably right since it appears the point of the exercise was to pat yourself on the back for your stoic bravery.

"believers....seemed to fear it more than this secular non believer who recognized that no power from earth or heaven was going to tide the events as they played out"

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

I think you are reading emotion into my posts that aren't there. It's understandable since tone is really hard to judge. 

You wanted us to discuss your experience and whether it was appropriate for someone to sing a religious song when fearing for their life. 

That's all I'm doing. I'm not upset or angry. I'm trying to understand your reaction. 

But since you brought it up, what would be the appropriate reaction for members to have when they are told that one of their most popular songs caused an ex member to want to throw up when sung in a frightening situation?

Sincere question. 

[Danzo]

3 hours ago, Meadowchik said:

So am I. 

If you notice, a great deal of the initial reactions to the OP were attacking the validity of the OPs feelings, not even considering that they might be legitimately rooted in being hurt by the church.

so now it's my fault that JC feels bad when people sing I am a Child of God

I guess I should feel worse about it than I actually do

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I don't think that some of the people who post in both places realize how much we hear about it over here.  I've never even been on the other message board and even I hear reports about two faced posters. 

It's pretty entertaining to read some of the high-fiving that goes on over there when they think they are successfully tricking or manipulating posters over here.  

Well if it is entertaining..sign up!  I don't post a lot over there because they are way above my heads on their discussions.  You would be great in the Celestial threads!  There are some that are writing books and heavy study I don't understand..but you would.   JHLPROF is really valued over there.BTW:  they don't care if you know anything on their threads...they just don't care...it is easier to post how you think and feel. 

[Johnnie Cake]

8 hours ago, juliann said:

No, he just expressed his disdain and disgust for those Mormon people. Here. To us. We have been conscripted to be "part of my recovery and healing from the religion." His recovery and healing, which involves mean spirited comments about what random Mormons do,  can only be done in front of other Mormons for some inexplicable reason. There is a board where this is welcomed and applauded, yet it has to be done here.

So no, this is not about how he reacted on the plane, who cares. It is about him having to say hateful things to other Mormons on a message board. Let's not rearrange what the problem is. No one sought him out to instruct him as to how to feel. No one is unsympathetic to what anyone felt in that situation. It was a good story. Until the purpose of relating it was made clear. We were to be instructed on the gag worthy attempt of a missionary to calm fellow passengers. It wasn't described in reasoned terms like annoying or objectionable. A much more insulting and inflammatory reaction had to be used....gag inducing.  

Have you noticed how many absent posters have begun to pop up since JCake gave us a breather? I rarely start threads, but I recently did because my friends had stopped posting because they were sick of the negativity and ugliness that was dominant. I had stopped posting for the most part. I have nothing against JCake, he really seemed to be trying to reduce his hostility and it was appreciated and noticed. Until the board became a collection of threads filled with microaggression, as in "brief, everyday exchanges that send denigrating messages to certain individuals because of their group membership" (Wikipedia). 

Look at the responses to that animus returning. Again, not because of what he felt but because of the denigrating message he wants to send us.  When this many posters are objecting, it might be time to pay attention.    

Sorry, but you're making a lot of unfounded assumptions and leaps to conclusions I've never inferred

[PeterPear]

You had a gag reflex over a Primary Song sung at the point of possible death?

Holy Moley.

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It isn't anger.  It is frustration.

A lot of us have cared about Tacenda and her feelings since she joined.  We have spent long hours trying to find information for her, interacting with her, letting her speak her mind, sharing with her some deeply personal thoughts in hopes that something will help give her peace and a sense of stability or a sense of belonging.

At times she puts up stuff like the memes here and honestly it can feel like a good friend is eagerly sharing nasty gossip that is being spread around the schoolyard and asking "why would you do such a thing?"  She is always sincerely sorry when she does it, but she keeps doing it.  It really shouldn't be too hard after years of interacting with lots of people on this board to stop and try and imagine first what feelings a particular report may trigger, decide if it needs to be said or not, and if it needs to be said for a solid reason, to present it some way to show that there is trust there the portrayal is misguided if it is something extreme and applied generically to all Mormons.

Maybe this is something that could help Tacenda interact with others in real life (since she said she doesn't have many friends).  If she gets more positive feedback here, that could help with confidence (certainly did me); if this is a habit she has elsewhere, if she learns to modify it to a more constructive approach, it could prevent some awkward moments with people offline.

Tac, seriously, try to look on it as useful feedback and think what you could do to explain your feelings responses in more constructive ways.  We don't need or want Pollyanna, but there are ways to criticize without the trash.

Thanks Calm, I had friends and since my faith crises, I don't relate to my church friends. I had friends through the church basically, and some through my husband's friends and their wives who are TBM, but I can't relate to them either. No wonder I can't leave the church alone. I feel like it is to blame for my faith crisis, I will always feel that way. So sometimes that anger bubbles up.