I’m Back, Did You Miss Me? Appropriateness of Singing I am a Child of God

[juliann]

 

45 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 

But since you brought it up, what would be the appropriate reaction for members to have when they are told that one of their most popular songs caused an ex member to want to throw up when sung in a frightening situation?

 

Perhaps JC could write a manual for us! He could hand it out on his next flight.

Helping Mormons Respond Appropriately: How to assist ex-members who want to throw up when you sing on an airplane.

• 1. Assess your surroundings when on a plane. Find the exits, know where your flotation device is, and determine how many hostile exmos are seated. 
• 2. Based on this information, thoughtfully choose your song choice before the plane starts its descent to the crash site. 
• 3. Screaming is acceptable and encouraged. 
• 4. Airlines provide barf bags in the off chance you misjudged the passengers and begin to sing a heart felt gag inducing song.
• 5. Place your note of sincere apology on the inside of the bag where it will be visible to the gagging person you offended.

 

[juliann]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Thanks Calm, I had friends and since my faith crises, I don't relate to my church friends. I had friends through the church basically, and some through my husband's friends and their wives who are TBM, but I can't relate to them either. No wonder I can't leave the church alone. I feel like it is to blame for my faith crisis, I will always feel that way. So sometimes that anger bubbles up. 

Understood. I am sorry for that. But what does that have to do with you bombing us with hateful memes? 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

No.

"I wish the plane had gone down and you died in the crash so you would never have to worry about anything like people around you singing ever again!"

That would have been overreacting.

[Calm]

"I feel like it is to blame for my faith crisis, I will always feel that way."

And as long as you keep telling yourself this, you will.

[Tacenda]

Just now, juliann said:

Understood. I am sorry for that. But what does that have to do with you bombing us with hateful memes? 

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. 

I don't know what else to say, but I didn't mean for it to hurt anyone on the board, just thought it would show how some people could have been treated when they disbelieve. But I think the anger from loved ones is because they think their disbelieving family member has been duped or taken over by Satan. My own sister thinks that about me, that Satan is working on me. She was loving about it, but now is distant with me. 

 

[Calm]

". She was loving about it, but now is distant with me"

Did you send her some memes or links to anti sites by any chance?

PS:  your own uncertainty can set off others' anxiety especially if they care about you or have their own anxieties to deal with.  They may therefore choose to avoid contact that leads there.

On bad days, I have to tell my daughter to stop apologizing, etc. when she asks me to do things for her because I can feel my limited energy just drain away trying to engage with her insecurity.  It is rare, most of the time we each make the effort to suck it up when the other is down, but I have come out and told her she needs to stop talking if she wants me to cook her something, clean up after the dog, etc.  It can be both harder (because you aren't used to it so you don't develop a thicker skin) and easier (you know you will have time away from it) when it is someone you aren't living with.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Calm

[Johnnie Cake]

8 hours ago, juliann said:

Love you, JM, but there are no entitlements on a private message board. We are at the mercy of our all powerful owner who did a wholesale cleansing of the macroagressors some time ago. Even I wondered if the board would survive. It did, it thrived. So we get the sneakier stuff now like a drip drip drip. JCake would be great if he would stop the micro stuff.  And there is no question that is what it is when they are over at their own board doing high fives. 

With all due respect....you have completely misjudged me

[Johnnie Cake]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I am going to stick with my "you are a terrible person" theory.

Which makes you what? You're doing here what you've accused me of

Edited April 16, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

". She was loving about it, but now is distant with me"

Did you send her some memes or links to anti sites by any chance?

PS:  your own uncertainty can set off others' anxiety especially if they care about you or have their own anxieties to deal with.  They may therefor choose to avoid contact that leads there.

On bad days, I have to tell my daughter to stop apologizing, etc. when she asks me to do things for her because I can feel my limited energy just drain away trying to engage with her insecurity.  It is rare, most of the time we each make the effort to suck it up when the other is down, but I have come out and told her she needs to stop talking if she wants me to cook her something, clean up after the dog, etc.

Nope, I've only put things on this website. I have never said anything to my sister, except for saying I have doubts about Joseph Smith. Of course, she and I would always feel like the lone TBM's in our family, so now she is, and that probably hurts alot.

[Rain]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Well taken, and I will be back until someone on this board bans me. So will someone please do that? Because I can't stay away. And I didn't giggle at all, about the devil on my shoulder. It was my attempt at being funny maybe. The only way to get rid of me is to ban me. It might just be the best thing for me, and I will still visit, and still appreciate a lot of people on here. But from the sidelines. I am the black sheep of this family, but I do care about the members on here, but still have feelings of anger too of losing a good portion of my life over my faith transition. I can't go be with the ex Mormons and I can't go be with the TBM's either. It's a state of being in the middle, and not being able to jump down off the fence on either side. This board is like family and I count many as friends, I seriously have so few friends it's not even funny. Not trying to get sympathy though, please don't take it like that. I'm just telling the truth. I suck at being around people in real life too. 

 

26 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Stupid is as stupid does I guess. 

I don't know what else to say, but I didn't mean for it to hurt anyone on the board, just thought it would show how some people could have been treated when they disbelieve. But I think the anger from loved ones is because they think their disbelieving family member has been duped or taken over by Satan. My own sister thinks that about me, that Satan is working on me. She was loving about it, but now is distant with me. 

 

I wonder if you are misreading the situation. You have described how ward members ignore you and then bit by bit we find you have asked not to have contact in this way or that way. Is there any possibility that you have done this with your sister? Even if not do you think you could approach her, be honest with her and tell her that you have felt a distance? It's very possible that she has understood you wanted that distance even if you have done nothing to make her feel that.

I'd like to reccomend something to you. If you try to take it to heart I think it would really change some things for you. Listen to The Dog Ate My Scriptures. You can get the ebook from Deseret Book for $2, but as much as you like podcasts I reccomend the talk. It is $9 by MP3 or a little more by CD. If you don't have the funds I will gladly pay for it - just pm me so we can work out details.

It is not about scriptures, but about making excuses. I first listened to it about 10 years ago and it has made a real difference in my life. It has helped me to have control over my own life.  

The Dog Ate My Scriptures

[Ahab]

36 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Which makes you what? You're doing here what you've accused me of

Which makes him a funny guy.

Ha ha.

I don't think he was accusing you of being funny, though.

Edited April 16, 2017 by Ahab
Edited to add that Ha ha is pronounced "Ha" followed by another "ha" after that

[Calm]

20 minutes ago, Rain said:

 

I wonder if you are misreading the situation. You have described how ward members ignore you and then bit by bit we find you have asked not to have contact in this way or that way. Is there any possibility that you have done this with your sister? Even if not do you think you could approach her, be honest with her and tell her that you have felt a distance? It's very possible that she has understood you wanted that distance even if you have done nothing to make her feel that.

I'd like to reccomend something to you. If you try to take it to heart I think it would really change some things for you. Listen to The Dog Ate My Scriptures. You can get the ebook from Deseret Book for $2, but as much as you like podcasts I reccomend the talk. It is $9 by MP3 or a little more by CD. If you don't have the funds I will gladly pay for it - just pm me so we can work out details.

It is not about scriptures, but about making excuses. I first listened to it about 10 years ago and it has made a real difference in my life. It has helped me to have control over my own life.  

The Dog Ate My Scriptures

Great suggestion, Rain.

 

[Johnnie Cake]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

He posts a lot on another board, not his own in terms of ownership.  I don't know if he or someone else has posted a parallel thread there on this topic as often happens.  I thought he had based on something said, but misunderstood which I realized when I reread it.

99.9% of my posting activity is here...I am unaware of any other thread on this subject on any other board...if one exist it wasn't started by me nor have I been involved with it

[Johnnie Cake]

6 hours ago, juliann said:

Way back when, the haters followed us here from ZLMB. Mind you, we had come here to escape them. When we started banning them for the same behavior that we thought we had left behind, they became hysterical. They started their own board which they proclaimed to be free from such horror and promptly began banning and censoring themselves. There is something really, really irrational about a group of people who go to private board (these places aren't free) and tell them what the rules should be and then scream at them when they can't do what they want. It was as if police had come and dragged them out of their homes, it was a sense of entitlement like I have never seen.  Well, obviously the place didn't attract Mormons. So they would bring our threads over there and do their voodoo on the Mormons. But it is no fun without an audience. So we got the never ending sock puppets. They really can't live without us and I'm not kidding. 

So those here  who want to kick the dog here have a nice big shiny message board of their own to say and do whatever they can think of in complete freedom and with an adoring audience....but I guess just talking about kicking dogs isn't enough, they have to actually have a dog to kick.It's called Mormon Discussions. Nemesis did something to block linking here cause they would try to create board wars by linking to their threads there in an attempt to move the beat down over here. 

I don't even have to look to know the feeding frenzy that must be going on over there right now. LOL We are all happy they have a place and that it helps their recovery and healing. We don't bother them, we don't troll them, we don't demand "rights" on their turf. We only ask the privilege of having our own space. 

Juliann, you seem to carry a lot of residual anger towards me...have I unknowingly personally offended you in some manner?

[Johnnie Cake]

6 hours ago, juliann said:

To be honest, it was so toxic and defamatory that I don't look anymore. Others do which is how I learned JCake was previously  in full form over there laughing about what he was pulling over here. Go find his stuff. What I was shown were quotes. 

There have been "success" stories, don't know about over there. Like I said before, my theory is that this is a fight over the community not the church. It is the community they want access to, in the same way they demand access and approval from this board community. It kind of functions as a microcosm. I think that is why it is so hard for us to understand why they don't just go live their lives (as most leave takers do.) 

CFR. That I've been laughing about what I was pulling over here.  I'm gobsmacked and what exactly is it I'm pulling over here anyway...are you suggesting I am less than sincerely posting? Have ulterior motives?  

Edited April 16, 2017 by Johnnie Cake

[Johnnie Cake]

2 hours ago, juliann said:

 

Perhaps JC could write a manual for us! He could hand it out on his next flight.

Helping Mormons Respond Appropriately: How to assist ex-members who want to throw up when you sing on an airplane.

• 1. Assess your surroundings when on a plane. Find the exits, know where your flotation device is, and determine how many hostile exmos are seated. 
• 2. Based on this information, thoughtfully choose your song choice before the plane starts its descent to the crash site. 
• 3. Screaming is acceptable and encouraged. 
• 4. Airlines provide barf bags in the off chance you misjudged the passengers and begin to sing a heart felt gag inducing song.
• 5. Place your note of sincere apology on the inside of the bag where it will be visible to the gagging person you offended.

 

Juliann, you seem to appreciate direct unfiltered truth.  You are coming off as a condescending, know everything bully. 

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

99.9% of my posting activity is here...I am unaware of any other thread on this subject on any other board...if one exist it wasn't started by me nor have I been involved with it

"A lot" is subjective (and with me as a standard no one else posts a lot) and to be precise requires an interest I lack so I will edit that description,

[Calm]

46 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Juliann, you seem to carry a lot of residual anger towards me...have I unknowingly personally offended you in some manner?

Why do so many assume it's anger when someone speaks assertively?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Which makes you what? You're doing here what you've accused me of

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Johnnie Cake said:

...are you suggesting I am less than sincerely posting? Have ulterior motives?  

Yes and yes.

[Ahab]

57 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Juliann, you seem to appreciate direct unfiltered truth.  You are coming off as a condescending, know everything bully. 

Bro, seriously, you should have your sense of humor checked by a qualified comedian.

Juliann was trying to be funny and you called her a bully for it. 

Or at least I think she was trying to be funny. Maybe my sense of humor is not sensing humor appropriately. So please make an appointment for me with your comedian, as well, for the same time as your, appointment, so that I can have my sense of humor checked by the same comedian you see.

[Meadowchik]

8 hours ago, juliann said:

Way back when, the haters followed us here from ZLMB. Mind you, we had come here to escape them. When we started banning them for the same behavior that we thought we had left behind, they became hysterical. They started their own board which they proclaimed to be free from such horror and promptly began banning and censoring themselves. There is something really, really irrational about a group of people who go to private board (these places aren't free) and tell them what the rules should be and then scream at them when they can't do what they want. It was as if police had come and dragged them out of their homes, it was a sense of entitlement like I have never seen.  Well, obviously the place didn't attract Mormons. So they would bring our threads over there and do their voodoo on the Mormons. But it is no fun without an audience. So we got the never ending sock puppets. They really can't live without us and I'm not kidding. 

So those here  who want to kick the dog here have a nice big shiny message board of their own to say and do whatever they can think of in complete freedom and with an adoring audience....but I guess just talking about kicking dogs isn't enough, they have to actually have a dog to kick.It's called Mormon Discussions. Nemesis did something to block linking here cause they would try to create board wars by linking to their threads there in an attempt to move the beat down over here. 

I don't even have to look to know the feeding frenzy that must be going on over there right now. LOL We are all happy they have a place and that it helps their recovery and healing. We don't bother them, we don't troll them, we don't demand "rights" on their turf. We only ask the privilege of having our own space. 

But please don't assume that any negative poster here is playing such games.

[Maureen]

On 4/14/2017 at 11:54 AM, Johnnie Cake said:

...As we made our last approach, amid the turbulence and panic there could be heard a single soft voice over the audible screams and cries, a lone sister missionary returning from her missionary service…began to sing out loud…”I am a Child of God” others began to join in…as a clam over took those who had only moments before failed to confront their fears.

While being a non-believer I must admit that it did kind of trigger my gag reflex…for the believers it did seem to calm them down.

While there were no religious surveys taken either before or after the flight…and speaking only from my biased anecdotal take on the event, believers fear death just like everyone else…and speaking only for myself…seemed to fear it more than this secular non believer who recognized that no power from earth or heaven was going to tide the events as they played out...

I haven't read all the posts so I don't know if anyone as mentioned this but, the singing could have acted as a helpful distraction. Instead of being so consumed with anxiety and fear, the singing could make those crazy moments a little less crazy just for the fact that people would take the time to think about the words and sing them. A calming action to distract them from the terrifying feelings they were experiencing.

And I don't think it was merely death the other passengers were fearing; it was also knowing how they were about to die. I would fear dying from a plane crash more than dying in my sleep.

M.

[Meadowchik]

7 hours ago, juliann said:

Sorry Meadowchik, I have always followed you and it has been hurtful to read the things you are saying about us now. I hope you find peace and stay with us.

Believe me that no one, especially anyone on this board, is as hurt by what I am going through as myself.

But that's not the point.

I have made the effort to stay on topic but I have also freely shared whatever part of my experience I find relevant to a given topic, so that I can contribute to the topic at hand. 

All I did on this thread initially was to defend feelings as valid. But as I write this, it occurs to me that responding to the OP's post appropriately might be tricky. Mormon-believing posters might see very little productivity arising out of a compassionate response, or might have very little curiosity for exploring the OP's experience unemotionally.

I can see a person having JC's experience, deeming it sufficiently weird, and bringing it here to tslk about it because, again, feelings like a gag reflex are not premeditated. They just are, and this could have really surprised the OP.

Perhaps one other alternative way to respond to the OP is to ponder how coping with death as a non-believer might contrast with the coping skills of a Mormon:

Mormons might avoid the consideration by instead turning to God to save them. An unbeliever has no option, they face the situation without any chance of affecting outcome. They might be concentrated on returning, albeit frantically, to a tiny sliver of peaceful thought so that they can experience that peaceful thought for their potential last moments of existence.

For a believer, this is a passing moment on an infinite timeline of moments yet experienced, a moment that is to be endured. For a believer the moment does not represent the unexpected compression of an entire lifetime and existence into a few terrifying seconds.

[Bernard Gui]

6 hours ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Geezzz....you're completely over reacting and way too sensitive. Board members are blowing my reaction way out of proportion 

Really? Gagging at a Mormon missionary's innocent response to imminent death, breathlessly reporting it here, and then doubling down with even more deprecating comments? What reaction were you hoping to get? What kind of feelings should one have while hearing other human beings make their final utterances in the face of an impending violent death? How sensitive is it to make them an object of contention and ridicule?

Edited April 16, 2017 by Bernard Gui