Major Stake and Ward Realignment Today. Do such moves hurt or help?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Today, the Stake I belong to, and two others in the Atlanta areas realigned. In my Stake, all but the Wards changed boundaries and all changed names. I am now in the same Ward with all my kids and Grandbabies, but no longer meet in the same building with a lot of friends. Recently I was tasked with finding inactive members, or to see if they still lived in our Ward boundaries. But no more...now in a new Ward.

Change is the only constant in life, but all change is not good in the minds of many. Having gone through a number of these in almost 40 years in the Church, I have seen many fall through the cracks and get lost. Some do want to start over meeting new people, some go into Wards where a large part remained the same to find they have no callings, and won't for awhile. Others who were less active, just stop going and it takes time for them to be missed in a new Ward and by that time, to much time has passed. I have friends who I would at least see in the hallways of shared buildings, or at Stake Conferences, that I won't see. Our Ward now is the only one in our building, while others are now in different Stakes that I will hardly see almost anywhere. 

Do changes such as these help more, or hurt more? What has been your experiences with similar changes?

I told my wife today that we should both get used to wrinkled pants and dresses as we will be having grandchildren climbing all over us a lot.  

 

[Monster]

It is a strange thing in Mormonism to be assigned where you attend church. Perhaps it would be better to let members attend where they wished.

[Calm]

People wouldn't tend to leave their comfort zones and get to know others they would never normally encounter, especially in our culture where even neighbours may have little to do with each other.  I think it is a much better idea to set it up this way so people commit to their local community and don't flock to wards based of 'celebrities' or because it possesses the 'ingroup' of the area.

[Calm]

And then there is the problem of depending on people for callings if people just show up where they want as well as never knowing how big of a bulding, how many teachers, etc. are needed.  

[waveslider]

I think the thing that hurts the most in these situations result not because of the change itself, but in most cases because home teaching isn't done near enough to help facilitate such changes in a smother transition, especially for the inactive members. If everyone got visited each and every month, or at least a real and honest attempt at such, more people would be made aware of it and a much smaller percent of people would fall through the cracks.

The funny thing is though, that if home teaching was done at such a high percentage rate there would be even more changes such as these, because of the growth in activity increasing proportionally. For instance my ward has over six hundred people in it, but only about two hundred or so attend on any given Sunday. We would be split into three wards if all of them were active. Our home teaching doesn't even get near 10 percent. It usually hovers around 3 percent but fluctuates once in a while whenever there is a real push to get more people to do their home teaching.

[Calm]

44 minutes ago, Pa Pa said:

 

Change is the only constant in life, but all change is not good in the minds of many. Having gone through a number of these in almost 40 years in the Church, I have seen many fall through the cracks and get lost. Some do want to start over meeting new people, some go into Wards where a large part remained the same to find they have no callings, and won't for awhile. Others who were less active, just stop going and it takes time for them to be missed in a new Ward and by that time, to much time has passed. I have friends who I would at least see in the hallways of shared buildings, or at Stake Conferences, that I won't see. Our Ward now is the only one in our building, while others are now in different Stakes that I will hardly see almost anywhere. 

Do changes such as these help more, or hurt more? What has been your experiences with similar changes?

I told my wife today that we should both get used to wrinkled pants and dresses as we will be having grandchildren climbing all over us a lot.  

 

There are good and bad results, losing touch with friends is sad.  However, the Church would be having to add on to buildings and wards with all the difficult logistics of what to do with meetings involving several hundred people or having buildings half or more empty and wards were only a few callings were filled.  

In our area boundaries have changed about every 7-10 years because of housing.  I have never lived long enough in one area before to merit two changes, it will be interesting to see if we are here next time it happens (we adore the area but the yard and house are too big now).

[Rain]

There have been several stake changes nearby and we understand that if will be happening to our stake soon.  

I've been through one change.  Ours was a good thing. There were some grumblings and in the first year (mostly combining 2 wards) there were some times when there were some clashes between the two wards, though clash is too strong of a word.  Most of the members got on very well together.  It was just a few that would say,  "This is the tradition in our ward. "

I like what Calm said about change. It really does make one grow as we decide where we stand on things.  Sometimes that may seem like a negative thing at least to begin with, but I see lots of Heavenly Father in how we grow through change. 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Rain

[carbon dioxide]

1 hour ago, Monster said:

It is a strange thing in Mormonism to be assigned where you attend church. Perhaps it would be better to let members attend where they wished.

The LDS faith requires more of its members than others like church callings.  Many churches you just have to show up and listen to a preacher for an hour and that is it.   

[Jeanne]

My Dad refuses to go anywhere but his first and only church (ward) which is now 30 minutes away..not a bad drive though someone has to drive him..the there is a ward on the corner of his street.! I imagine changes don't always work for everyone  Papa...at least you will get to see some performances from the grandkids!!

[MiserereNobis]

1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

The LDS faith requires more of its members than others like church callings.  Many churches you just have to show up and listen to a preacher for an hour and that is it.   

I understand what you are saying and there is of course merit in it.  However, I'd like you to consider the following: in some way, isn't it asking more of members of a church to do things when they are not explicitly asked/required?  If it is all volunteer based, then people can certainly slide into being lazy, so it seems to me that it puts a greater burden on the individual to actually take initiative, based on what God is telling him or her, to do work in a particular area.

Also, I think by not having explicit callings, an individual Christian then has greater freedom to discern what God wants for him or her.  For example, maybe God's will for me isn't to work with the youth, but to help women with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies... if I am truly seeking God's will, that puts me in a place of humility to figure out what God wants of me.  It also means that I have to personally wrestle with God (and myself!) to figure out what He wants.  If I just defer to what an authority asks me to do, in some ways that seems the easier path, because I don't have to figure out God's will, I just accept the authority's calling of me as God's will.  It seems much easier to seek confirmation in what someone else has told me to do than to actually figure out from scratch what God wants me to do.

Just food for thought from a Catholic perspective...

+PAX

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Monster said:

It is a strange thing in Mormonism to be assigned where you attend church. Perhaps it would be better to let members attend where they wished.

I understand it, areas are put in place for the Bishop will be able to minister unto those living within their boundaries. 

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, Monster said:

It is a strange thing in Mormonism to be assigned where you attend church. Perhaps it would be better to let members attend where they wished.

Much of the structure of the church organization at the local level would have to change. What happens if too many members decide they want to be in the same building? Some buildings would be too full and some almost empty. Some bishops would have way too many members to deal with and others not enough. Youth and primary populations in each building could become either too big or too little . How would the home and visiting teaching programs be organized?  Some would have a couple families to visit and others might have too many to visit. What if there were not enough priesthood holders in one of the buildings that could fill positions? 

[BCSpace]

I think it best to refresh every once in a while.  Otherwise, things get stale and you have the same people rotating in and out of the major callings and their counselors.  Sometimes, it has to happen because of demographics.  Ward populations trend too old or neighborhoods go down the tubes which can cause high rates of inactivity or transient ward members. Sometimes one ward has no youth and a neighboring ward has all the youth.  Etc.

[waveslider]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I understand what you are saying and there is of course merit in it.  However, I'd like you to consider the following: in some way, isn't it asking more of members of a church to do things when they are not explicitly asked/required?  If it is all volunteer based, then people can certainly slide into being lazy, so it seems to me that it puts a greater burden on the individual to actually take initiative, based on what God is telling him or her, to do work in a particular area.

Also, I think by not having explicit callings, an individual Christian then has greater freedom to discern what God wants for him or her.  For example, maybe God's will for me isn't to work with the youth, but to help women with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies... if I am truly seeking God's will, that puts me in a place of humility to figure out what God wants of me.  It also means that I have to personally wrestle with God (and myself!) to figure out what He wants.  If I just defer to what an authority asks me to do, in some ways that seems the easier path, because I don't have to figure out God's will, I just accept the authority's calling of me as God's will.  It seems much easier to seek confirmation in what someone else has told me to do than to actually figure out from scratch what God wants me to do.

Just food for thought from a Catholic perspective...

+PAX

The thing is, is that times aren't always going to be as easy as they are now. As the world grows increasingly more away from God and into transgression, the world is quickly moving into a state that has been prophesied as the tribulations. A cleansing period to prepare for the coming of Christ. If people just went to whichever ward they wanted, home teaching would be a logistical nightmare. In times of trouble many people would be left on their own to fend for themselves. It is the main means set up for the support of everyone in the local communities of taking care of each other in times of distress, natural disaster, riots, wars, etc.. We already have a hard enough time motivating our members to do their home teaching, which by the way is just having a few families assigned as a responsibility to help out the bishop, who can't possibly be there for everyone, all by himself. It isn't just coming from a place of convenience, but more out of a responsibility we each have of our fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. The master has shown us that the servant is the greatest among his disciples.

[Scott Lloyd]

I've sometimes questioned the popular but unofficial catch-phrase in the Cuurch "ward family". Is it really a family if it's just as apt as not to be disrupted tomorrow by realignments and divisions? Most people who relocate away from their wards do so without looking back. 

The real "family," it seems to me, is or ought to be the broader Curch membership. 

[Duncan]

Our stake desperately needs ward realignments but apparently the word from SLC is "it's too hard". Meanwhile back at the ranch......

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

I understand what you are saying and there is of course merit in it.  However, I'd like you to consider the following: in some way, isn't it asking more of members of a church to do things when they are not explicitly asked/required?  If it is all volunteer based, then people can certainly slide into being lazy, so it seems to me that it puts a greater burden on the individual to actually take initiative, based on what God is telling him or her, to do work in a particular area.

Also, I think by not having explicit callings, an individual Christian then has greater freedom to discern what God wants for him or her.  For example, maybe God's will for me isn't to work with the youth, but to help women with unplanned/unwanted pregnancies... if I am truly seeking God's will, that puts me in a place of humility to figure out what God wants of me.  It also means that I have to personally wrestle with God (and myself!) to figure out what He wants.  If I just defer to what an authority asks me to do, in some ways that seems the easier path, because I don't have to figure out God's will, I just accept the authority's calling of me as God's will.  It seems much easier to seek confirmation in what someone else has told me to do than to actually figure out from scratch what God wants me to do.

Just food for thought from a Catholic perspective...

+PAX

Yeah but we are supposed to do that and our callings.  

[The Nehor]

27 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've sometimes questioned the popular but unofficial catch-phrase in the Cuurch "ward family". Is it really a family if it's just as apt as not to be disrupted tomorrow by realignments and divisions? Most people who relocate away from their wards do so without looking back. 

The real "family," it seems to me, is or ought to be the broader Curch membership. 

It is a family with a lot of divorces, marriages, and adoptions.

[Rain]

45 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I've sometimes questioned the popular but unofficial catch-phrase in the Cuurch "ward family". Is it really a family if it's just as apt as not to be disrupted tomorrow by realignments and divisions? Most people who relocate away from their wards do so without looking back. 

The real "family," it seems to me, is or ought to be the broader Curch membership. 

When we first got married 25 years ago we used to have 2 big things a year with DH's family. There were over 100 people that would attend,  but it wasn't long till we were down to just once a year and now just special occasions with just some of the people.  The family had just grown too much. When you get enough people you have to whittle down contact whether or is a ward family or related family because it would get overwhelming otherwise.

[Bernard Gui]

Having lived in the "mission field" most of my life, I've been through quite a few of these realignments. I have mixed feelings, the worst of which is the loss of good friends that became so after time and experiences together. Being in another ward or stake is like being in a different state. While I recognize the need, I usually wished I wasn't in the unit that got redistributed.

Does this kind of upheaval occur in areas where the church population is more dense? I remember living for a while in Springville UT where our ward was just 6 blocks in area.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Bernard Gui

[california boy]

13 hours ago, Monster said:

It is a strange thing in Mormonism to be assigned where you attend church. Perhaps it would be better to let members attend where they wished.

The Mormon church is indeed unique in the way it is organized.  By having members assigned to a specific building attending church at a specific time, you get to know the community better.  Strong bonds are formed.  And when someone is missing, it is often noticed.  There is something else related to this.  Each building throughout the world teaches the same lesson in sunday school and other meetings.  I have attended church services all over the world.  When I have arrived, the members immediately recognize that I am new there and often make a special effort to welcome me and my family in.  When the lessons start, I already know what was discussed last week which gives background on what will be discuss in a ward I have never attended.  I remember attending a ward in Italy with my children a few years back.  When we got to our sunday class, the instructor recognized that we were Americans and even though they had missionaries there to translate, he asked how many in the class spoke English.  I think he already knew that most in that room spoke English because they attend the same class every week.  There were only two in the class that didn't speak English.  They offered to attend another class in the building so that the visitors could hear the lesson in English.  How welcoming and touching is that!  There is great value in being assigned a time and place to meet.  I think more religions should think about it.

[Buckeye]

39 minutes ago, california boy said:

The Mormon church is indeed unique in the way it is organized.  By having members assigned to a specific building attending church at a specific time, you get to know the community better.  Strong bonds are formed.  And when someone is missing, it is often noticed.  There is something else related to this.  Each building throughout the world teaches the same lesson in sunday school and other meetings.  I have attended church services all over the world.  When I have arrived, the members immediately recognize that I am new there and often make a special effort to welcome me and my family in.  When the lessons start, I already know what was discussed last week which gives background on what will be discuss in a ward I have never attended.  I remember attending a ward in Italy with my children a few years back.  When we got to our sunday class, the instructor recognized that we were Americans and even though they had missionaries there to translate, he asked how many in the class spoke English.  I think he already knew that most in that room spoke English because they attend the same class every week.  There were only two in the class that didn't speak English.  They offered to attend another class in the building so that the visitors could hear the lesson in English.  How welcoming and touching is that!  There is great value in being assigned a time and place to meet.  I think more religions should think about it.

Very good points. The church's organization, and in particular its practicing of assigning members to units, is indeed unique. While it has some costs, I believe that on net it is beneficial.

I'll give my example in response to the OP. When my family moved to the Cleveland area 12 years ago there was one ward that was clearly stronger than the others, especially in terms of primary and youth. As our family included several children (soon to add a few more), my wife and I easily came to the decision that that was our ward. We printed out the ward boundaries and instructed the realtor to only find homes in that area. Not being LDS, she was flummoxed,  but complied. The ward was everything we hoped for. But it only lasted 2 years. Then the stake president (after a long period of deliberation) decided to blow up the ward and divide its strength between surrounding weaker units. Suddenly our commute was twice as long, our building twice as hold, hallways much smaller, and the congregation full of strangers. 

In the intervening decade, I've come to have a strong testimony of that move. When new families move into the area, there are no longer variations in strength such that one ward is the obvious choice. And more importantly, by evening out the strengths, each ward has been able to hold steady, or even grow, in the Cleveland area which still struggles with good employment prospects. But for the change 10 years ago, several units could have reverted to branches and the work could have stagnated for a generation or more. The "costs" to my family of time and convenience have been more than made up for with new friendships, leadership roles for my kids (and us parents), and a call to serve.

[ERMD]

As with all living things, the Church grows by dividing.  We became part of new stake in February, and 2 weeks ago due to a boundary realignment, we became part of another ward.  We each carry the best of ourselves wherever we go and are able to share that influence in our new settings.

[Buckeye]

One point to add to my last post. Recent news stories have highlighted tensions in our country that (IMO) result from a long slide towards self-segregation. For very reasonable, yet self-interested purposes, most people (myself included) tend to select school districts, church communities, and neighborhoods that have the most resources possible (new city pools, well-maintained lawns, school money for the arts, etc.) On the individual level this makes perfect sense. But on the community level it can be destructive. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. 

IMO, one of the very best aspects of the LDS church is that we graft strong roots and branches into weaker trees, thereby saving both. It's a painful process. Sometimes the grafts don't take hold. But it's the only way to preserve the vineyard over the long term. The ward my family was re-assigned to 10 years ago contains many minorities, blue-collar workers, and those struggling with issues that are not very prevalent in the neighborhood my wife and I chose on our own. For us, being grafted into this "poorer" part of the vineyard has borne very good fruit. I wasn't trilled in the beginning, but looking back, I'm grateful for the gardener's decision.

[stemelbow]

In our recent stake changes it was described, later in Stake Conference, why the change.  It was all about one figure, or mostly.  There is a ratio of members per Melchizedek Priesthood holder in consideration.  They like it to be around 13.  But our ward was closer to 22-3, I believe before the change.  After it was more like 13.  So they worked and reworked boundaries until they got the units all closer to 13.  Our ward boundaries went from a near perfect square, geographically, to squirrely tails sourced from a oblong center.  I'm in the center of SL valley, though, so they had many considerations to play with.  THe result was, our stake lost 2 ward units, but our wards are pretty big now.  We have so many inactive members, to get our ratio looking good, we have what seems to be an endless number of active gray haired High Priests. 

Elder's is a waste because we pack our quorum in the back of the gym, but the other ward's sacrament is happening at that time.  We hear the microphone clearly, but we can't hear much of each other in EQ.  If we get loud we disturb the sacrament particularly for those who sit way in the back (we've had a few complaints).  There is no other room that can accommodate.  So the result is no one really comes to EQ, save for the presidency, usually just one of them and a couple nuts like me.  But even with our small size, we have no other place, except for the other ward's bishop's office, I guess.  I think we could fit in there alright.  Ah well, what's the point of EQ anyway?  I think that's what's been concluded.  We might as well all head home and give ourselves an extra hour away from the family.