Major Stake and Ward Realignment Today. Do such moves hurt or help?

[Scott Lloyd]

42 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

Most bishops are good judges of when to push the issue and when to leave it alone.

If they were not, they could be replaced by a computerized manual.

No doubt.

[bsjkki]

Sometimes it has been an immense struggle for my family staying in my current ward but we have stuck it out.  I have had a lot of bad experiences here and feel I will never fit in.  It is also hard to forget and move on when there are constant reminders of the past here and the incredibly hard times we went through in this ward.  We live with the consequences of certain actions every day when those that caused so much pain have clearly moved on.  Sometimes, I think it would be mentally healthier for us to move because we would not have reminders of how bad "church" can be.  I also feel labeled because things have not always been sunshine and roses and then you are a malcontent and a "problem." I finally asked some of my questions to a stake presidency member and joked with my husband on the way out that we would never need to worry about having a stake calling.  We have lived in many wards and had true ward families in the past but it will never be so here.  We stay...whether that is the best thing for us spiritually, is another matter entirely but keeping our children stable outweighs these other concerns.  It would be nice to have options but like I said before, if wards turn into popularity contests, I see disaster.

[Calm]

My grandmother never got a ward calling for 30 or more years because she had to wait for a former bishop's wife and children to die off or move.  She had publicly opposed him being made bishop because she believed the to be released branch president deserved being bishop as a reward (she saw priesthood church callings as mainly status, perhaps another good reason to call women to the same offices, lol, so those so inclinced realize what status is given isn't balanced by the costs), she had nothing against the man personally.  Grandma seemed to revel in having an arch nemesis so it might not have been a bad thing, but I wonder if she had felt more accepted in her home ward, if she would have been so warrior matron in her elder years when I knew her (life was about duty with her, not joy...very different than her sister).

[It's.Complicated]

On 7/15/2016 at 4:32 AM, flameburns623 said:

But a long-inactive, possibly-disgruntled person who has somehow decided to attend a ward outside their own boundaries probably doesn't care what a bishop can "do" for them.

And, respectfully, if you were to take it upon yourself to tell someone their business in such a matter, you'd be risking getting your nose bloodied. I had a home-teaching assignee offer to sock me when I mentioned his smoking. (I responded by sitting down in deliberate fashion, laughing at the man, and telling him that would be a heckuva way to lose a friend). 

I think I would be much more predisposed to celebrate the return of a prodigal than to hector them about ward boundaries.

First time poster here.. I found this thread will researching Google to see if attending a Ward outside of the one assigned is a phenomenon that happens. From the looks of it, it is fairly rare or it is not talked about online. I am in a unique situation and may have been enlightened a way to partake in Mormonism on terms that I can live with today. I won't bore people with the particulars on why I am going this route here, but I have been hurt (not offended) by the Ward and I have a long history in the building. My family's involvement in that church, at that place, goes back 4 decades. It isn't neutral, it isn't a place where I can feel God's presence anymore. I could take up the Bishop's time for a whole week discussing my crisis and I am not really sure what the result would be. It could lead to separation from the church forever, despite my testimony. It could also lead to an over simplification of my issues, which is insulting and doesn't help.

So, to flameburns623's point.. he is 100% correct. I don't care what the Bishop can do for me, I can't have Home Teachers in my home, I don't want callings (I had a Presidency calling, I loved serving).. No service is required. I just simply want to worship, sing the hymns, watch the sacrament being passed (not partaking), pray with those in the congregation and simply be there. Other than a chair in the overflow area, a parking spot and a hymnal (I may not even need that, depending on what is being sung), I take up zero resources. I will never come to the Ward Christmas party, Eagle Court of Honor, ask to see the Bishop, 

So thank you to flameburns623 ! You are the voice of reason that all of us need. Yeah there are rules, I appreciate the rules, but people's needs have to be met. It is either going to another Ward or not coming at all. Some of this thread would rather see people stay home, which is really sad. That just shows contempt for the person who needs church the most, the broken heart, broken spirit and the absolutely lost (no offense). 

[Calm]

Attendance to church is by choice, not compulsion.

If attending another ward provides what you spiritually need and attending your local one would add to your burden, I think it is wonderful for you to consider that option and hope it works out for you.

[juliann]

Welcome, Complicated.

My opinion is to go wherever you have to for as long as you need to. We have a couple in our ward boundaries who were converted and fellowshipped in a nearby ward. They are still going to the other ward. Of course, be prepared with a standard response to all the understandable questions you are going to get and then hold your head high  :-) 

[It's.Complicated]

Thanks for the welcome! It looks like a nice place to chat ! 

[Buckeye]

If you're located in the Cleveland area (guessing from your avatar) You're always welcome in my ward.  Just PM me. 

[Jeanne]

On 7/15/2016 at 2:37 PM, Calm said:

My grandmother never got a ward calling for 30 or more years because she had to wait for a former bishop's wife and children to die off or move.  She had publicly opposed him being made bishop because she believed the to be released branch president deserved being bishop as a reward (she saw priesthood church callings as mainly status, perhaps another good reason to call women to the same offices, lol, so those so inclinced realize what status is given isn't balanced by the costs), she had nothing against the man personally.  Grandma seemed to revel in having an arch nemesis so it might not have been a bad thing, but I wonder if she had felt more accepted in her home ward, if she would have been so warrior matron in her elder years when I knew her (life was about duty with her, not joy...very different than her sister).

After all is said and done..what a very interesting grandmother!!!

[Jeanne]

7 hours ago, It's.Complicated said:

First time poster here.. I found this thread will researching Google to see if attending a Ward outside of the one assigned is a phenomenon that happens. From the looks of it, it is fairly rare or it is not talked about online. I am in a unique situation and may have been enlightened a way to partake in Mormonism on terms that I can live with today. I won't bore people with the particulars on why I am going this route here, but I have been hurt (not offended) by the Ward and I have a long history in the building. My family's involvement in that church, at that place, goes back 4 decades. It isn't neutral, it isn't a place where I can feel God's presence anymore. I could take up the Bishop's time for a whole week discussing my crisis and I am not really sure what the result would be. It could lead to separation from the church forever, despite my testimony. It could also lead to an over simplification of my issues, which is insulting and doesn't help.

So, to flameburns623's point.. he is 100% correct. I don't care what the Bishop can do for me, I can't have Home Teachers in my home, I don't want callings (I had a Presidency calling, I loved serving).. No service is required. I just simply want to worship, sing the hymns, watch the sacrament being passed (not partaking), pray with those in the congregation and simply be there. Other than a chair in the overflow area, a parking spot and a hymnal (I may not even need that, depending on what is being sung), I take up zero resources. I will never come to the Ward Christmas party, Eagle Court of Honor, ask to see the Bishop, 

So thank you to flameburns623 ! You are the voice of reason that all of us need. Yeah there are rules, I appreciate the rules, but people's needs have to be met. It is either going to another Ward or not coming at all. Some of this thread would rather see people stay home, which is really sad. That just shows contempt for the person who needs church the most, the broken heart, broken spirit and the absolutely lost (no offense). 

Welcome and a rep point for this post. 

[Danzo]

Go to whatever ward you feel comfortable in.  There are several who are members of our ward who live outside the boundaries.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Jeanne said:

After all is said and done..what a very interesting grandmother!!!

She was.  Not a particularly comfortable one, but a very caring and charitable person even is as rigid as a doorpost (she had an inherent sense of rightness in most things, so her rigidity wasn't a big problem outside of shafting Dad some on his personal growth ability).  She made the best waffles, we lived for them.  I come close by dumping a bunch of sour cream in them.  I want to know how she did it without it. Think she was part hedge witch.  with her cooking.

[Scott Lloyd]

THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!

I get that somebody landed here by way of Google.

But even I had to look twice before I realized I had already posted on this thread, and it was clear back in July.

[juliann]

13 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!

I get that somebody landed here by way of Google.

But even I had to look twice before I realized I had already posted on this thread, and it was clear back in July.

hahahahahaha

[ERayR]

17 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!

I get that somebody landed here by way of Google.

But even I had to look twice before I realized I had already posted on this thread, and it was clear back in July.

Can't you think of it as a resurrection?

[It's.Complicated]

I thought it was a decent thread to bump. It illustrated my point very nicely. Not only that, I found a new forum to hang out at.  

[Scott Lloyd]

23 hours ago, Danzo said:

Go to whatever ward you feel comfortable in.  There are several who are members of our ward who live outside the boundaries.

If they are, it is irregular. People are supposed to attend the ward in whose geographic boundaries they reside. It promotes shepherding. 

Im not saying there are never exceptions made. But it's not just a matter of deciding willy-nilly what one will do, as is being implied here. Priesthood leaders and official approvals must be involved. 

[bsjkki]

Wrong thread

Edited January 4, 2017 by bsjkki
wrong thread

[bluebell]

7 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

I enjoyed this take on the controversy...we haven't really looked at it from this perspective in this thread.  

"Is there anyone in the presidential congregation that the Mormon Tabernacle Choir could sing for that is worse than King Lamoni, or the pre-converted missionaries that eventually went and preached to King Lamoni. What if Ammon and Aaron were like, “No… we’re not going to go to Lamoni and the Laminites because they are the very vilest of sinners.” Instead… they went to them because they were the very vilest of sinners. (Mosiah 28:3-4) Christ said over and over again that the “whole need not the physician… but they that are sick.” Also… “I came not to call the righteous to repentance, but the wicked.”

Who at that inauguration could be worse than Paul as he stood by and held the clothes of his buddies while they murdered the disciple Steven? (Acts 7:55-56)  Yet… we quote Paul in the churches of America possibly more than any other apostle. Who knows when someone might repent and change. One thing is certain… withdrawing one’s self from an opportunity to let their light shine is not in harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ. He needs lights on a hill… not candles under a bushel.

So here we are in the world… this great church… with this great choir. But one of the Mormon Tabernacle choir singers decided to make a public statement and quit on principle. What we have now is one person who has stolen the show and is receiving a great deal of fame and attention while each of the other members of the Mormon Tabernacle choir who have decided to sing for America and let their light shine for all the world to see, are overlooked, forgotten, and possibly even shamed by people."

http://www.gregtrimble.com/a-huge-thank-you-to-each-motab-singer-who-has-decided-to-stay-and-sing/

I think you might have put this in the wrong thread. 

[juliann]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If they are, it is irregular. People are supposed to attend the ward in whose geographic boundaries they reside. It promotes shepherding. 

Im not saying there are never exceptions made. But it's not just a matter of deciding willy-nilly what one will do, as is being implied here. Priesthood leaders and official approvals must be involved. 

I suspect that would only apply if someone expected to have callings and such. I can't imagine a ward telling someone who only wants to attend but not participate in the usual sense to take a hike. They are a visitor and our signs say visitors are welcome.

[Scott Lloyd]

24 minutes ago, juliann said:

I suspect that would only apply if someone expected to have callings and such. I can't imagine a ward telling someone who only wants to attend but not participate in the usual sense to take a hike. They are a visitor and our signs say visitors are welcome.

Yes, of course. Virtually anyone is welcome to visit any ward or branch in the Church, as often as he or she likes.

But I was addressing what Danzo said about "members" of his ward who live outside the boundaries. I'm only saying that for official ward membership, ward leaders must be involved.

Edited January 4, 2017 by Scott Lloyd

[MiserereNobis]

22 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

THREAD NECROMANCY ALERT!

I get that somebody landed here by way of Google.

But even I had to look twice before I realized I had already posted on this thread, and it was clear back in July.

 

Hey, I got two rep points in the past 12 hours because of the post on this thread that I made back in July.  I'm selfishly pleased that this has been resurrected  

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

 

Hey, I got two rep points in the past 12 hours because of the post on this thread that I made back in July.  I'm selfishly pleased that this has been resurrected  

In Hollywood, this phenomenon is known as "residuals."

 

[HappyJackWagon]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Yes, of course. Virtually anyone is welcome to visit any ward or branch in the Church, as often as he or she likes.

But I was addressing what Danzo said about "members" of his ward who live outside the boundaries. I'm only saying that for official ward membership, ward leaders must be involved.

 

But you're right about leaders being involved when an official transfer of records is involved insofar as a person wants to participate in a ward unit. But if that person isn't interested in having a calling, being home taught, getting a temple recommend etc, it really doesn't matter.

In my experience boundary maintenance has been  closely defended by local leaders but I've seen that change significantly in my area over the past 10 years. Perhaps it's a recognition by leaders that it is better for a person to attend and fully participate somewhere rather than nowhere. Even my current bishop refused to attend our ward for the 5 years prior to being called as bishop. He only came back when he was called. We've had numerous people hop between wards by simply telling the SP that they will be attending elsewhere or not at all.

In my area we have experienced a lot of ward/stake realignment activity over the past decade. I honestly think part of what I'm seeing is due to people being fed up, or at least tired, of being transferred in an out of units for what they perceive to be purposes of gerrymandering. My ward has had 4 realialignments in the past 6 years. People are tired of it and I think stake leadership would rather allow them to attend where they want so they don't have a fight on their hands.

[Danzo]

21 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If they are, it is irregular. People are supposed to attend the ward in whose geographic boundaries they reside. It promotes shepherding. 

Im not saying there are never exceptions made. But it's not just a matter of deciding willy-nilly what one will do, as is being implied here. Priesthood leaders and official approvals must be involved. 

I have never seen anyone kicked out of a ward meeting for attending the wrong ward.  Never!

Sometimes people can't attend church at their scheduled meeting hour because of work or other issues.  I have always encouraged people in those situations to attend a different ward sacrament meeting.  I have never had anyone tell me (or them) that this was wrong.

In our ward, there was a young woman who had been attending our ward (who lived outside the ward boundaries). All of her friends and social groups were in our ward.  The missionaries of the other ward refused to teach her (don't exactly know why, but they are eighteen year olds.) I finally convinced our ward missionaries to teach her and her mother and I had the privilege of  baptizing them and they are members of our ward.   We often talk about them in ward council.  I suppose someday, we will suggest that they might try their home ward, but for now, while they are new members and are getting used to things, their records are in our ward.  Nobody has complained.   No one in our ward is about to tell them to get lost, just to satisfy some rule somewhere.

There is another family that just got activated when they moved into our ward, The husband was just baptized as well as a couple of their children.  They just moved slightly outside the ward boundaries (in a section of the countryside that looks like somebody's child scribbled the boundaries.).  They requested to stay in our ward and everyone is fine with it. They still have callings.

I know there are rules, and good reasons for rules, but the church is run by the priesthood and revelation, not by handbooks and legalisms.

If someone has a hard time attending their home ward, I will always tell them its better to attend a different ward than to just stop attending. 

 

 

Edited January 4, 2017 by Danzo