BYU Campus Police- Honor Code

[HappyJackWagon]

In a number of recent articles and even threads on this board I've seen discussions about how BYU promotes the rape culture by reporting the activities of the victim to the school.

So, for example, if a BYU student was drinking at a party and was later raped, if she reported the rape to the campus police they would report to BYU that not only was she a victim, but she had broken the honor code by drinking at a party. She could therefore be subject to school discipline including possible expulsion.

I'm curious if anyone can explain the relationship between the university and the police. It seems totally inappropriate for the police to tattle to the university about the legal activities of a student. I've mentioned this confusion to others and they act like it is totally normal because they are "campus police" so naturally they would report to the university.

I'm really confused by this. Could someone please shed some light for me.

[ALarson]

39 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I'm curious if anyone can explain the relationship between the university and the police. It seems totally inappropriate for the police to tattle to the university about the legal activities of a student. I've mentioned this confusion to others and they act like it is totally normal because they are "campus police" so naturally they would report to the university.

I'm really confused by this. Could someone please shed some light for me.

I work with some universities and in my experience state universities usually have real, actual policemen  (for lack of a better description, so please no one jump on me  ).  Some private universities also have actual policemen (who are part of the police department) on campus.  Other private universities only have security officers who are not part of the police.  It seems to vary from what I've seen.

I do not know which BYU has on campus.

Either way I would think whatever the victim of a rape tells these officers, all details should remain private and if they are security officers (rather than police), the case should immediately be turned over to the police department in the city.

.

Edited April 12, 2016 by ALarson

[rayhale]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there is no expatiation of privacy regarding the police, they might even be legally forced to tell the university that the victim was drinking. But I agree with you that campus police is inherently bias toward the school, there has been numerous accounts that the campus police will tell victims of rape to not report it to the real police, when the real police do get called, the campus police will say, "This is our campus, we'll take it from here." There has been cases where is word battles between the 'rent-a-cops' and the police.

[bsjkki]

It would be nice to get a clear explanation of how all  the entities at BYU coordinate.  It was the title IX coordinator at BYU that was reported as explaining that even though it could have a chilling effect on rape reporting, BYU does not apologize for turning honor code violations over to the honor code office for investigation if they are found during a rape investigation.  There seems not to be a recording of this event so this is based on eye witness accounts.  There is definitely not a firewall between BYU police and the honor code office.  This is all I could find as official policy for coordination between the police and the honor code office.

https://police.byu.edu/content/frequently-asked-questions#What%20happens%20if%20I%20get%207%20citations%20in%20any%2012%20month%20period

Enforcement and Parking

What happens if I get 7 citations in any 12 month period? 
If any person or vehicle receives 7 or more citations in any 12 month period their parking and driving privileges will be revoked (they are banned), and they may be referred to the Honor Code for further disciplinary action.

 

I'm not sure where the Title IX coordinator fits into the procedures.  It's sad because she is the one who is supposed to protect the victim from retaliation for reporting her assault.    This is how the actual rape victim at the event explained it and her understanding about what was said.

 

Madi says:

April 11, 2016 at 6:44 pm

Guys, I’ve noticed a lot of people are confused about the role of Title IX and the Honor Code Office. Long story short, Title IX will review your case and then, if there are any circumstances of your rape that they suspect are in violation of the Honor Code, they will turn over the information to them for subsequent punishment. If you guys have any more questions feel free to ask. The TV interview I did that’s airing tonight also answers a ton of these questions.

 

 

[Storm Rider]

31 minutes ago, rayhale said:

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure there is no expatiation of privacy regarding the police, they might even be legally forced to tell the university that the victim was drinking. But I agree with you that campus police is inherently bias toward the school, there has been numerous accounts that the campus police will tell victims of rape to not report it to the real police, when the real police do get called, the campus police will say, "This is our campus, we'll take it from here." There has been cases where is word battles between the 'rent-a-cops' and the police.

I think you meant "expectation" rather than "expatiation".  

You mentioned that you are not an expert, but you seem to have more knowledge than the rest of us.  Could you please explain the "rent-a-cops" term you used?  Does this mean they are not full time employees of the university or that they are not actual police officers or something else?

When I look at their web site, it refers to them as a state certified police department.  Yet, you seem to have more information to share and clarify this statement for us. 

[ALarson]

6 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Guys, I’ve noticed a lot of people are confused about the role of Title IX and the Honor Code Office. Long story short, Title IX will review your case and then, if there are any circumstances of your rape that they suspect are in violation of the Honor Code, they will turn over the information to them for subsequent punishment. If you guys have any more questions feel free to ask. The TV interview I did that’s airing tonight also answers a ton of these questions

Why is there not an issue with privacy regarding them turning over information to the Honor Code Office? 

Also, can you give more information about your TV interview and where it will be airing (and time, etc.)?  

(Maybe you already posted this, but I missed it if you did.)

.

Edited April 12, 2016 by ALarson

[CV75]

1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

In a number of recent articles and even threads on this board I've seen discussions about how BYU promotes the rape culture by reporting the activities of the victim to the school.

So, for example, if a BYU student was drinking at a party and was later raped, if she reported the rape to the campus police they would report to BYU that not only was she a victim, but she had broken the honor code by drinking at a party. She could therefore be subject to school discipline including possible expulsion.

I'm curious if anyone can explain the relationship between the university and the police. It seems totally inappropriate for the police to tattle to the university about the legal activities of a student. I've mentioned this confusion to others and they act like it is totally normal because they are "campus police" so naturally they would report to the university.

I'm really confused by this. Could someone please shed some light for me.

"Brigham Young University’s state certified police department is committed to providing a safe and peaceful environment for the BYU community.  By joining and working together with the students, faculty, and staff of Brigham Young University, we can create a strong, secure community for everyone to enjoy."

 

 

https://police.byu.edu/

The Clery Report is an interesting/informative read, and describes how the campus police dovetails with Honor Code issues and the Provo City PD:

"University Police Authority
Brigham Young University maintains a state-certified police department. The department’s police officers and dispatchers are certified by the Utah Department of Public Safety. University Police Officers have the same law enforcement powers as officers from other Utah police agencies, including the authority to make arrests. The University Police Department works closely with local municipal, county, state, and federal law enforcement agencies.

"University Police
University Police has jurisdiction over all law enforcement related issues occurring on Brigham Young University properties. Crimes in progress, suspicious circumstances, medical emergencies, and other campus emergencies should be immediately reported to University Police. When dialing 911, campus phones connect directly with University Police; cell phones connect with Provo Police, who forward the call to University Police.

"Provo City Police Department
Students may report crimes to the Provo City Police Department, whose jurisdiction includes all off-campus housing. The Provo Police Department is available at the following location..."

https://police.byu.edu/content/provo-campus-security-report

 

 

Edited April 12, 2016 by CV75

[HappyJackWagon]

It's very strange to think that a private institution like BYU would play the governmental role in relation to the police like a city would. In that kind of case would the police have a primary responsibility to serve and protect the public (students & faculty) or is their primary role to protect the reputation of the university and help them uphold the honor code? Why would they do anything except enforce the law? The honor code shouldn't be a concern for the police except when laws are broken.

I'd really like to try to understand this

[bsjkki]

5 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Why is there not an issue with privacy regarding them turning over information to the Honor Code Office? 

Also, can you give more information about your TV interview and where it will be airing (and time, etc.)?  

(Maybe you already posted this, but I missed it if you did.)

.

To be clear, because the quote box is very misleading,  I did not say this but it is a direct quote from Madi on another message board.  Here is the link to her interview.

http://kutv.com/news/local/byu-student-says-honor-code-creates-fear-shame-in-victims-of-rape

I think she is incredibly brave to report her rape and share her experiences.

[CV75]

1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's very strange to think that a private institution like BYU would play the governmental role in relation to the police like a city would. In that kind of case would the police have a primary responsibility to serve and protect the public (students & faculty) or is their primary role to protect the reputation of the university and help them uphold the honor code? Why would they do anything except enforce the law? The honor code shouldn't be a concern for the police except when laws are broken.

I'd really like to try to understand this

It is state-certified, so its mission is kosher...From the Clery Report:

"Mission Statement
The University Police Department facilitates an environment of peace and order for the BYU community through the following:
• Treating others with courtesy, dignity, and respect;
• Preventing crime and eliminating hazards;
• Teaching others how to protect themselves and their property;
• Detecting crime and apprehending violators; and
• Enhancing service through the personal and professional development of department employees.

[CV75]

8 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's very strange to think that a private institution like BYU would play the governmental role in relation to the police like a city would. In that kind of case would the police have a primary responsibility to serve and protect the public (students & faculty) or is their primary role to protect the reputation of the university and help them uphold the honor code? Why would they do anything except enforce the law? The honor code shouldn't be a concern for the police except when laws are broken.

I'd really like to try to understand this

I think university police departments typically operate as independently as audit departments; perhaps more so. Conflict-of-interst issues, for example, are often reported to the Police Department, or concurrently with the Audit Department.

[strappinglad]

If 5 guys are drinking vodka in a BYU dorm and for some reason one of the guys decides to start beating  another one and in the ensuing ruckus the BYU campus police are called and arrest the attacker for assault and battery , I wonder if the whole group of guys will get a pass on the Honor code violation . Will the BYU cops inform on the guys or will the info come from another source? I often wonder how TMZ gets all the juicy stuff so quickly.

[bsjkki]

I linked this on the other thread but will link it here too.  I was very happy to see the BYU Police know there is a problem and want to fix it.  

http://universe.byu.edu/2016/03/08/technicalities-and-under-reporting-obscure-byu-campus-crime-reporting1/  Here is the relevant quote.

“We know things are happening on campus, but (students) are not coming forth,” said University Police Sgt. Elle Martin, who is responsible for crime prevention efforts at BYU. “It’s heartbreaking, and I want that to change so bad.”

[ALarson]

Just now, bsjkki said:

I linked this on the other thread but will link it here too.  I was very happy to see the BYU Police know there is a problem and want to fix it.  

http://universe.byu.edu/2016/03/08/technicalities-and-under-reporting-obscure-byu-campus-crime-reporting1/  Here is the relevant quote.

“We know things are happening on campus, but (students) are not coming forth,” said University Police Sgt. Elle Martin, who is responsible for crime prevention efforts at BYU. “It’s heartbreaking, and I want that to change so bad.”

Thanks for posting this again!

I'm still wondering why the University police share confidential information with the Honor Code Office.  Aren't they bound by privacy laws for the victim.  Shouldn't their statement be protected from being shared?

[HappyJackWagon]

12 minutes ago, CV75 said:

It is state-certified, so its mission is kosher...From the Clery Report:

"Mission Statement
The University Police Department facilitates an environment of peace and order for the BYU community through the following:
• Treating others with courtesy, dignity, and respect;
• Preventing crime and eliminating hazards;
• Teaching others how to protect themselves and their property;
• Detecting crime and apprehending violators; and
• Enhancing service through the personal and professional development of department employees.

Okay, good. So it never states that the BYU campus police have a mission of working for the honor code office, right?

So I'm wondering how/why the honor code office would be notified by campus police of an honor code violation that does not involve the breaking of a law.

[USU78]

Rape culture?

Look, I'm certainly no fan of yBu, but to say there is a "rape culture" there is beyond silly, especially where, as demonstrated by me in the other thread, yBu gets an A- safety rating as compared to USU's A rating.  How can yBu be one of the institutions most highly rated for safety if it is a haven for rapists to the extent of having an entire culture named after them?

Besides:  http://nypost.com/2015/09/27/the-myth-of-the-college-rape-culture/

[thesometimesaint]

STOP THIS NONSENSE. The victim is not responsible for their being victimized. End of story.

[Storm Rider]

31 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It's very strange to think that a private institution like BYU would play the governmental role in relation to the police like a city would. In that kind of case would the police have a primary responsibility to serve and protect the public (students & faculty) or is their primary role to protect the reputation of the university and help them uphold the honor code? Why would they do anything except enforce the law? The honor code shouldn't be a concern for the police except when laws are broken.

I'd really like to try to understand this

Seems like your perception is the fruit of ignorance rather than an understanding of how university police departments function.  You should google University Police Department and see exactly how wide spread this type of service is around the United States from coast to coast at private and public universities.  

[CV75]

4 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Okay, good. So it never states that the BYU campus police have a mission of working for the honor code office, right?

So I'm wondering how/why the honor code office would be notified by campus police of an honor code violation that does not involve the breaking of a law.

I'll refer to the Clery Report. I mentioned that university police departments typically work in concert with the audit departments; both cover ethical matters (which I think would include Honor Code issues) as well.

"EthicsPoint Compliance Hotline

"The university provides an anonymous compliance hotline—EthicsPoint—for reporting non-emergency incidents on a voluntary and confidential basis, either by phone or online. Reporters should explain the issue in detail, and they should return to the report, either by internet or phone, to answer questions posed by a BYU representative. Reporters can also return to the report to receive updates."

Such ethics hotlines are considered a best-practice.

I noticed that the BYU Police Blotter doesn't include any Honor Code-specific infractions https://police.byu.edu/content/police-blotter But the Honor Code Office is listed as one of the “Campus Security Authorities (CSAs)

"University police is the preferred contact for reporting campus crimes. However, individuals may also report criminal incidents to Campus Security Authorities, who include individuals responsible for campus security and others who have been designated due to their significant responsibility for student and campus activities. Specifically, the following persons and organizations may receive reports of criminal offenses…”

I'm sure there is cooperation between the various "agencies" that deal with campus security since that is a hallmark of good public safety. I'm getting all my info from the Clery Report and the BYU website--where are you getting your information that campus police report non-criminal Honor Code infractions to the Honor Code Office? I suppose anyone has that option per the scope of the EthicsPoint Compliance Hotline described above.

 

[USU78]

5 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said:

STOP THIS NONSENSE. The victim is not responsible for their being victimized. End of story.

I quite agree.  Why a separate thread when there's a perfectly good one already where the horse is failing fast.

[HappyJackWagon]

33 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Seems like your perception is the fruit of ignorance rather than an understanding of how university police departments function.  You should google University Police Department and see exactly how wide spread this type of service is around the United States from coast to coast at private and public universities.  

Yes- I'm asking about how university police departments work precisely because I don't know how they work. Good catch.

[Storm Rider]

This is the type of thing that where it become pre-programmed trite phrases that only show emotion and no rational discussion.  Not a single person has ever said the victim of a rape is responsible for being raped, yet this knee-jerk response is quite common.  It is impossible to have a discussion about common sense, avoiding risky behavior, because of the great god of rape theology commands that the victim is not responsible for her actions.  It is just tiring.

God forbid a university that significantly subsidized by the Church making tuition affordable also have the temerity to have an honor code - something each student promises to observe and not to violate.  In addition, the vast majority of the students are members of the LDS Church that has some pretty clear teachings on what is and what is not acceptable behavior.  However, the rape god comes on the scene and everything is dismissed because the victim is not responsible for her rape, WHICH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CONVERSATION.  

All students will be treated equally and fairly.  If you violate the Honor Code you open yourself up for discipline.  It does not matter if another crime was committed at the same time - each student remains responsible for their actions and the resulting consequences for violations of the Honor Code.  It is just so simple.  

[CV75]

57 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Yes- I'm asking about how university police departments work precisely because I don't know how they work. Good catch.

Wikipedia has some good articles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&search=university+police+departments&profile=default&searchToken=2p6zn9fvhn3mejmfrtbwiemb9

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campus_police

I think for those universities that subscribe to the principle of in loco parentis, that principle serves as the basis for good communication between the various university departments to promote a "safe" environment for all. Any university will subscribe to the idea of a community of growth and fulfillment for everyone, on terms agreed-upon in the honor code the students sign off on. As I check out random honor code handbooks of both religious and secular universities, there is typically a tie-in with the university police departments on some level.

Edited April 12, 2016 by CV75

[rpn]

In the case that is recent, it was a friend of the rape perp that reported that the rape survivor had violated the honor code (probably in retaliation for the perp's arrest). 

 

[bsjkki]

10 minutes ago, rpn said:

In the case that is recent, it was a friend of the rape perp that reported that the rape survivor had violated the honor code (probably in retaliation for the perp's arrest). 

 

She confirms that retaliation was the motivation.  

Madi says:

April 12, 2016 at 9:35 am

These hypothetical situations are useless. They have nothing to do with rape, the Honor Code (which is actually NOT law), and should not be misconstrued to seem as they do.

And Jane – the Honor Code Office was used as retaliation in my case. The friend of my rapist turned my report in into the Honor Code Office in order to retaliate against me.