Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: Bible teaches if you are not saved before you die, you will never be saved. Anyone who goes to Hell stays in Hell forever. No baptizing for the dead. That's entirely delusional. I would call Paul delusional. And the scriptures clearly state many are delivered from hell. In fact the gates of hell will not prevail against us. Christ returned after all and we follow his example 1
Avatar4321 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: Faith and works are contrasted. We are saved by faith. Coming to the cross as a helpless sinner to receive the Lord Jesus as Savior is not a work but a faith. So when you do works to show your faith you are right but if others do it they are evil and denying the grace of God? There is a word for that 4
Zakuska Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 6 hours ago, savedwheat said: Bible teaches if you are not saved before you die, you will never be saved. Anyone who goes to Hell stays in Hell forever. No baptizing for the dead. That's entirely delusional. Yet another fundamentally flawed misreading of Scripture by our new narcissistic friend. For those who "go to hell to remain in hell forever"... as savedwheat hypothesizes... hell has to remain forever... yet what do the scriptures tell us... Rev 20 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Hell at some future point is emptied of souls and ceases to exist. So we know savedwheat is misreading scripture here. We also know that Jonah went to hell and his Spirit remained conscious and he prayed and repented and he "escaped" hell. Jonah 2 1 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly, 2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice. How was Jonah able to repent AFTER he was drowned in the sea and found himself in hell? PS. Faith IS a work. Edited January 24, 2016 by Zakuska 3
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Del Edited January 24, 2016 by JLHPROF
Zakuska Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I nominate this thread for a Golden Ramiumpton Award. 3
bluebell Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 I appreciate your thoughts, but I sincerely don't care what you think about my beliefs. 1
Zakuska Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Another flaw with savedwheat's hypothosis that "those in hell remain in hell forever" is the Biblical/Christian doctrine of the "harrowing of hell". https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrowing_of_Hell Not to mention the prophet David. Psalms 16 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. Edited January 24, 2016 by Zakuska 3
Popular Post Spammer Posted January 24, 2016 Popular Post Posted January 24, 2016 Savedwheat, on whose authority do you rest your claim to possess the correct interpretation of scripture for the entire world, or do you claim that authority for yourself? 8
ttribe Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. Let me get this straight - You believe in a God who would throw millions of his own children into eternal hell filled with torture and flame because they (potentially) misunderstood his nature? Lovely. Edited January 24, 2016 by ttribe 3
JLHPROF Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 29 minutes ago, ttribe said: Let me get this straight - You believe in a God who would throw millions of his own children into eternal hell filled with torture and flame because they (potentially) misunderstood his nature? Lovely. As I told him in another thread, I would never worship the God he follows. And this is just one of many reasons. 2
boblloyd91 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 2 hours ago, Spammer said: Savedwheat, on whose authority do you rest your claim to possess the correct interpretation of scripture for the entire world, or do you claim that authority for yourself? Probably sola scriptura and sola fide so if you're not a fundamentalist Protestant in his eyes you're going to hell. That's usually their modus operandi
Jude2 Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: Matt. 10.32,33 says unless you confess who Jesus is He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so if you teach a Jesus t hat didn't create all things then you got a false Christ and a false God who is not alone from everlasting. And also that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so nobody can lose salvation once saved. Cheery picking one passage out of an entire chapter is not the way to build doctrine, So let’s see what it actually says; 1, And when he had called unto him his twelve disciples,…. 32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. 33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. I don’t see in there anything about a triune God, I don’t see anything in their which says I must believe A,B and C about God in order to be saved. In fact I don’t see anything about my salvation at all. Starting at the beginning of the chapter I see a call to do missionary work, to go before men and preach the Gospel. He’s warning his Apostles “I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves..” And if they preach the gospel to men God the Father will accept them. But if they run and hide or deny the truth that he is the Christ the Son of the living God then he will have to deny them on their judgment day. 3
RevTestament Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, halconero said: Well I believe what Jesus said there. So you don't believe what Jesus said. I would say that you were going to hell for that, but Jesus said that wasn't up for me to decide, and I believe him, so I'll refrain. Good plan 1
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. Wow. Thanks. I think you might have just saved my soul!!! Who knew that God had appointed you to be His judge to decide who goes where in the eternities. So relieved to know my salvation is in capable hands. 1
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: No. I wouldn't be comfortable doing that. Why are you comfortable doing it here on an anonymous message board then? What you meant to say was: 'I don't have enough courage to do that' I'd rather take the guy who has the guts to stand up with his sign over an anonymous poster telling me I'm going to hell. At least he's willing to let people know who he is. 3
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: Read a little further. Whatever judgment you judge by you will be judged if you commit the same. Oh the irony is painfull!!! 1
RevTestament Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. The Hellfire brimstone stuff used to bother me. I've always thought that it was unrighteous for God not to tell people on the earth about Christ, such as millions of Middle Age Chinese, and then send them to hell. I've always had a special place in my heart for Oriental culture, and have always had a great deal of respect for them - until totalitarian "communism" came along. As a result when I first heard the missionaries telling me that people could be saved in their third estate if they for example had not heard of Christ, I realized that the evangelistic Christians had the "good news" of the gospel wrong - that God really is just, and that he does not unfairly punish people - either in a preprogrammed way like the Calvinists believe or in other ways. I realized that 2 Peter taught principles missed by the Reformation churches because they had lost that truth due to the reign of the Catholic church. 2
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: You think you always existed alongside God. That's pride which prevents you from being saved, and rejecting the Jesus who created all things. A lesser Jesus will not save you. You do know that we believe that Christ created all things, right? I don't know where you get the idea that we reject this. Do you have any references showing that we do not believe that Jesus was the creator? I would be really interested to see them.
busybee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: Bible teaches if you are not saved before you die, you will never be saved. Anyone who goes to Hell stays in Hell forever. No baptizing for the dead. That's entirely delusional. So who were the Spirits that Christ preached to in prison referred to in 1 Peter 3:19, And why did He bother if they weren't saved before they died? According to you they are going to hell and will stay there. Who and where were these spirits and what did Christ preach to them? Enlighten us. 2
JAHS Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 13 hours ago, savedwheat said: Matt. 10.32,33 says unless you confess who Jesus is He will deny you before the Father in heaven, so if you teach a Jesus t hat didn't create all things then you got a false Christ and a false God who is not alone from everlasting. And also that salvation is not by works lest anyone should boast so nobody can lose salvation once saved. The following is a list, according to the Bible, of all the things, including certain types of works, that are required before one can be saved: Endure to the end (Matthew 10:22) Bring forth good fruit (Matthew 7:16-20) Do the will of Father in Heaven (Matthew 7:21) Believe(Mark 16:16, Act 13:21) Baptism (Mark 16:16) Jesus Christ (John 3:17, 10:9) Call upon name of Lord(pray) (Acts 2:21) Grace of Jesus Christ (Acts 15:11) Hope (Romans 8:24) Confess Jesus (Romans 10:9) Believe in resurrection (Romans 10:9) Remember teachings of Jesus(1 Corinthians 15:2) Faith (Ephesians 2:8) Lose life for Jesus and Gospel (Mark 8:35) Heed the doctrine and continue in them(1 Timothy 4:16) Shun sin and filthiness (James 1:21) Receive the word (James 1:21) Works (James 2:14-26) The concept of works being involved in our salvation is hard to understand when comparing Biblical scriptures, especially if they are taken out of context. Consider the following: Ephesians 2:8,9 " For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.." Romans 3:20,28 "Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight." Galatians 2:16 "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ." compared to: James 2:24 "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." Matthew 19:16-21 "And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he [Jesus] said unto him . . . keep the commandments. . . . The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven." So, are works required for our salvation or not? Apparent Contradictions such as these and others that are found throughout the Bible are good opportunities for latter-day prophecy to help us understand such scriptures and bring them into harmony with each other. Yes we are saved by grace. Jesus does it all for us. But we can't just sit back and do nothing. In order for us to be perfect as Jesus asked us to be there are things we are told to do so we can become a perfected individual.
Raingirl Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: You think you always existed alongside God. That's pride which prevents you from being saved, and rejecting the Jesus who created all things. A lesser Jesus will not save you. This is what you said in response to a post of mine. You don't know me. You have NO IDEA what I do or do not believe about anything. You have also clearly demonstrated with your spamming of this forum that you also have ZERO clue about...well, anything really...but especially about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. And your ignorance of that is almost equaled by your ignorance of the Bible. There is no "lesser Jesus". Jesus is Jesus. Who he is doesn't change just because someone - you, for instance - doesn't understand who he is. By the way, you also made a statement that Christians would not 'go to hell'. Mormons are Christians. So we're not going to hell. You said so yourself. 2
rodheadlee Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 12 hours ago, savedwheat said: You think you always existed alongside God. That's pride which prevents you from being saved, and rejecting the Jesus who created all things. A lesser Jesus will not save you. CFR. that means Cite Frequent References. If you cannot cite references you MUST retract that statement. I resent you spamming our board because you don't know how to use it, nor did you read the rules. And now you are telling me I'm going to HELL because you say I believe in something that I do not. You are the one with a pride problem. The Church is NOT the Mormon Church, it is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and why have you not heard His Voice calling you to repentance? This same pride you accuse us of is the pride that is causing YOU to reject Christ's own Church. Retract that statement or back it up with references.
strappinglad Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 savedwheat's heaven will be quite the exclusive club, and his hell will be extremely crowded and diverse, everyone from mass murderers to infants.
Russell C McGregor Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 14 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: This is pertinent: 14 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: Matthew 10:32-33 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Excellent! We're in good shape, then.
mfbukowski Posted January 24, 2016 Posted January 24, 2016 15 hours ago, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. Thank you so much for telling us. You did your duty. Bye now. Have a good day. I am afraid we strongly disagree, and you have failed to convince us. You will eventually see this is correct. So just stop wasting your time, and that of all these people who will argue with you to no avail on both sides. There is no basis here for communication. You are the thousandth person to say these things. Been there done that. Thanks again. 1
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