thatjimguy Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Halconero, I don't read into it like Savedwheat is writing as if in a judgmental attitude. Read it again as a matter-of-fact statement from their point of view. Imagine one of us saying there will be people going to Outer Darkness in the afterlife. Are we judging, or simply stating what our scriptures tell us? Savedwheat, I would like to ask you the real question. Why do you want to believe in the Trinity or anything you mentioned that differs from us (and other) religions? Because, as a convert, I can tell you that choosing to follow a religion has nothing to do with anything based on non-provable facts. For instance, I did not hear that Jesus came to the Americas and said "sign me up!" Instead, I loved that it represented that he would not keep his word through only one group of people. I think if you can tell me that, we can get somewhere...thanks.
thesometimesaint Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: You're a Mormon but let's pretend you are Christian so you truly believe that Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity, created ALL things and died on the cross for the sins of the world, resurrected the 3rd day, and the Godhead of One Being was alone from everlasting. If you say you murdered someone yesterday for no good reason, then I am sure you will admit you don't believe in Jesus and if you thought you did, you admit it wasn't genuine. But if you come to me and say you really believe I will sense by the Holy Spirit if you are genuine so that I know you will never murder someone; and thus, you are my broter in Christ. Fortunately I don't have to pretend to be a Christian. The Godhead of One Being was alone from everlasting is gibberish. I've never murdered anyone, and have no intention of doing so. You don't know me. But you are still passing judgement of me. If that is your religion that gives you the right to pass judgement on anyone. I want to stay as far away from you and your religion as is humanly possible.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Since the Father is I AM and Jesus is I AM that is the Trinity.
thesometimesaint Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 18 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since the Father is I AM and Jesus is I AM that is the Trinity. And the Holy Ghost is I Am. "Ye are Gods". SEE John 10:34 We can become like God. Does that make us an I Am too? SEE John 17.
RevTestament Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 41 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Since the Father is I AM and Jesus is I AM that is the Trinity. That's ok friend.... we understand you are a fallible man like those who wrote the Nicene Creed, and tried to tell God His true nature.... They left the Holy Spirit out of their formulation too, and had to add Him in 40 yrs later at Constantinople. Yet, they still have men fooled 1500 years later that they received revelation from God....quite sad really.
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 Bible says what it says Father is Alpha and Omega and Jesus is Alpha and Omega. Trinity.
halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 7 minutes ago, RevTestament said: That's ok friend.... we understand you are a fallible man like those who wrote the Nicene Creed, and tried to tell God His true nature.... They left the Holy Spirit out of their formulation too, and had to add Him in 40 yrs later at Constantinople. Yet, they still have men fooled 1500 years later that they received revelation from God....quite sad really. I've said this before...I have 0 problem from an argumentative perspective with small c-catholics accepting the creeds. Obviously I don't believe them myself, but in that case I believe that the burden of claiming an apostasy lies on us as restorationists. Their argument for apostolic authority and tradition vested in the Bishops is a strong one. Where I have a problem is the Trinitarians like those of savedwheat's who rip apart the Church Fathers, the authority of Bishops, and the traditions of the catholics, yet still maintain an exceedingly strict belief in the doctrine formulated by them. The Trinity relies on more than just the Bible to be described and explained, and for those who rely completely on Biblical authority alone that's a problem. Heck, even the church of the great reformer himself, the Lutheran, maintains itself as part of the catholic tradition and creeds. 1
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 All you need to know is that you are in a cult when you claim the church disappeared for 18 centuries. Your heart will begin to change when you accept that. Father is the beginning and end. Jesus is the beginning and end. Trinity. Luther, Calvin, Augustine were not saved because they were Calvinists Catholics are not saved because they are non-OSAS and amillennial.
RevTestament Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 22 minutes ago, savedwheat said: Bible says what it says Father is Alpha and Omega and Jesus is Alpha and Omega. Trinity. Uh huh, and the Holy Spirit? Is He alpha and omega... you keep leaving Him out... so it seems you have a binity instead. I would have thought you would have gotten that right after I pointed out that little problem with the Nicene Creed leaving the Holy Spirit out of the one substance formulation....
savedwheat Posted January 25, 2016 Author Posted January 25, 2016 The Holy Spirit is the life of the Father and the Son.
halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 So...this is a question that just popped into my mind savedwheat...but when did the non-divine, mortal founder of your Biblical interpretation come around?
RevTestament Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 20 minutes ago, halconero said: I've said this before...I have 0 problem from an argumentative perspective with small c-catholics accepting the creeds. Obviously I don't believe them myself, but in that case I believe that the burden of claiming an apostasy lies on us as restorationists. Their argument for apostolic authority and tradition vested in the Bishops is a strong one. Not really. In the early church matters of vote were done by common consent. The Nicene Council had a maximum of 330 bishops in attendance out of an estimated 1200 in the empire and many more in Parthia ie Babylon and to the East. Western Roman history always leaves them out - well by that time that had been conquered by Persia again. Anyway that leaves a minority of the bishops telling the rest of the church what they had to believe or get kicked out - not really a strong position in my estimation. What is strong about it is that it shows the early structure of the church did have bishops and priests whereas the evangelicals try to claim the priesthood was done away in Christ. So it shows a gaping hole in their claims of authority from Christ to perform baptisms or do anything. Because they don't have the true priesthood, they don't have laying on of hands etc, that their Bible says was used in ordaining, healing, etc. Yet, they look past their failure to have what the Bible has, and try to point fingers at the LDS...the word hypocrite comes to mind.
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Lutherans are not saved?, tell that to coolrok7 who posts here !. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
busybee Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 3 hours ago, savedwheat said: All you need to know is that you are in a cult when you claim the church disappeared for 18 centuries. Your heart will begin to change when you accept that. Father is the beginning and end. Jesus is the beginning and end. Trinity. Luther, Calvin, Augustine were not saved because they were Calvinists Catholics are not saved because they are non-OSAS and amillennial. I'm guessing you're going to be quite lonely in your heaven. Seems like EVERYONE else is going to hell!!! Thank God (and I mean that with the deepest reverence) for the fact the you don't have the right or the authority to get to decide who goes where in the eternities. That right and authority belongs to only one and He employs no one at the gate of heaven. So consider yourself 'fired'. (pun intended) 2 Nephi 9:41 41 O then, my beloved brethren, come unto the Lord, the Holy One. Remember that his paths are righteous. Behold, the way for man is narrow, but it lieth in a straight course before him, and the keeper of the gate is the Holy One of Israel; and he employeth no servant there; and there is none other way save it be by the gate; for he cannot be deceived, for the Lord God is his name.
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 So one must not be a follower of Jesus Christ Teachings but of Calvin or Augustine Teachings, what is wrong with this picture/scenario ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
thesometimesaint Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: Bible says what it says Father is Alpha and Omega and Jesus is Alpha and Omega. Trinity. The Bible says no such thing. Plus you've left out 1/3 of your Trinity. Making it a Duopoly
thesometimesaint Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 4 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Holy Spirit is the life of the Father and the Son. Not Biblical.
Gray Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 On 1/24/2016 at 1:41 AM, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. Instead of wasting bandwidth speculating on why you think Mormons are going to be tortured for all eternity, why not discuss the finer points of Christian theology regarding salvation? This is in poor taste. 3
The Nehor Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: The Holy Spirit is the life of the Father and the Son. So if the Holy Ghost were to go away the Father and Son would both die? 5 hours ago, savedwheat said: All you need to know is that you are in a cult when you claim the church disappeared for 18 centuries. Your heart will begin to change when you accept that. Father is the beginning and end. Jesus is the beginning and end. Trinity. Luther, Calvin, Augustine were not saved because they were Calvinists Catholics are not saved because they are non-OSAS and amillennial. Ah, but that makes you a cult unless you can show historically a continuous chain of denominations with the exactly the same beliefs as you operating since the time of Christ. I look forward to you sharing this elusive timeline or for your confession that you are a debased satanic cultist who eats babies and tortures puppies. 1
HappyJackWagon Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 On 1/24/2016 at 1:41 AM, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons. I tried giving you the benefit of the doubt with your first post but it's clear you're just a troll. It's too bad you seem incapable of engaging in meaningful discussion.
halconero Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 53 minutes ago, The Nehor said: So if the Holy Ghost were to go away the Father and Son would both die? Ah, but that makes you a cult unless you can show historically a continuous chain of denominations with the exactly the same beliefs as you operating since the time of Christ. I look forward to you sharing this elusive timeline or for your confession that you are a debased satanic cultist who eats babies and tortures puppies. That's what struck me and prompted the question above. He calls is out for being restorationists and believing in an apostasy and in the next breath damns all...and I mean all the extant Christian denominations from the time of St. Peter through Luther and Calvin until the conception of his enlightened interpretation of scripture.
Anakin7 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 What protestant denomination is savedbywheat ?. In His Eternal Debt/Grace Anakin7
Jeanne Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 Hey guys..we need Consig to give Savedwheat a run for his money. 3
ttribe Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said: I tried giving you the benefit of the doubt with your first post but it's clear you're just a troll. It's too bad you seem incapable of engaging in meaningful discussion. Indeed, it is probably not possible for savedwheat to do such a thing. Having encountered very similar rhetoric on an almost weekly basis during my mission in TN and KY, the evidence provided on this board over the weekend suggests the following: 1) savedwheat has a very superficial understanding of the Bible; 2) is parroting what he/she heard from a pastor/video/brochure/Internet source; and 3) adheres to OSAS for the psychological comfort it provides to "know" he/she CANNOT lose his/her salvation (hence, no ongoing accountability), even if that isn't what the doctrine is actually about. Any challenges to this rhetoric will only be met with proof-texting and cliched paraphrasing of Biblical passages. There simply isn't the depth of knowledge, or the ability to face challenges to his/her worldview, sufficient to do anything else. 3
CV75 Posted January 25, 2016 Posted January 25, 2016 On 1/24/2016 at 2:41 AM, savedwheat said: I need to tell you what is on my heart that I know Mormons are going to Hell because they think they always existed alongside God even though God said there is none beside Him. He alone is from everlasting, and that Jesus created all things; nothing exists that exists without Him having created it. Also many express salvation can be lost once saved which is salvation by self strength or works. This shows you did not give your life to the God who keeps and never lets go; now that's a God you can trust in. Since God the Father is God and Jesus is God and the Spirit is God the Godhead is One Being in 3 Persons, Co-Equal, Co-Inherent, One Substance, Distinct but Not Separate in the 3 Persons.
Recommended Posts