carbon dioxide Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Another hit piece on the church at the Huffington post. Basically attacking the Church because the Church went on a campaign against gay marriage. Normal stuff but this particular claim I found interesting: "Insiders have indicated that over the last seven years the Mormon Church may have lost up to 1 million members because of all it did to end gay marriage. These formerly loyal Church members decided to side with their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) family members and friends instead of their Church." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/mormon-church-bleeding-me_b_8299882.html I don't know where they get this from but really 1 million over gay marriage? I am sure a some members might decide to with the LGBT group over Christ but I can't think of one person that has left over gay marriage. If one million is true, I should be aware of at least 5 or 10 by myself.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I think most leave over finding out church history. 1
Popular Post 3DOP Posted October 16, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2015 Your church put an "end" to gay marriage? Wow. How could that have happened after such a long, non-controversial history of acceptance from the beginning, which goes back to Apostolic times one must presume? Shame on you Mormons who put an "end" to gay marriage. 9
JLHPROF Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Really?Utter nonsense. I think if Church membership had dropped by 1 million it might have been noticed. 1
omni Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 That's a pretty bold estimate. It's hard to believe without any citation or documentation to back it up.
VideoGameJunkie Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 That article sucked. The author kept calling a Proclamation of the Family hateful. 1
Popular Post Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Look carefully at the claim. It is saturated with weasel words. "Insiders have indicated." "... may have lost." "...up to 1 million members." (Emphasis mine.) So if, in reality, the Church lost anything shy of 1 million members (even as few as one member), the claimer can say the assertion is accurate. And never mind about documenting it if you attribute it to nebulous "insiders." If you can't pin something down as being true but hope it is the case and are trying to make an impression, express it in weasel words. Give me a break Edited October 16, 2015 by Scott Lloyd 7
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Another hit piece on the church at the Huffington post. Basically attacking the Church because the Church went on a campaign against gay marriage. Normal stuff but this particular claim I found interesting: "Insiders have indicated that over the last seven years the Mormon Church may have lost up to 1 million members because of all it did to end gay marriage. These formerly loyal Church members decided to side with their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) family members and friends instead of their Church." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/mormon-church-bleeding-me_b_8299882.html I don't know where they get this from but really 1 million over gay marriage? I am sure a some members might decide to with the LGBT group over Christ but I can't think of one person that has left over gay marriage. If one million is true, I should be aware of at least 5 or 10 by myself.Should we include in that number those who had already left anyway but want to get the most political mileage out of their apostasy, so they blame it on doctrinal opposition to "gay" marriage? 2
Freedom Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Understand that Huffington Post is the Wikipedia of journalism. anybody an write an article for them. There is no vetting to ensure that anybody knows what they are talking about.
Stargazer Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Understand that Huffington Post is the Wikipedia of journalism. anybody an write an article for them. There is no vetting to ensure that anybody knows what they are talking about. As a Wikipedia editor myself, I'm actually offended by that statement. Wikipedia has been shown to as reliable as many professional publications. Please read: "How Accurate is Wikipedia?" on LiveScience. The fact that Wikipedia's edit model makes it possible for people to insert garbage is offset by the fact that changes to the site are watched by thousands of dedicated editors who catch and correct attempts to vandalize it. Of course it's not perfect. You might find Wikipedia's own assessment of its accuracy to be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_Wikipedia NOW, as to the Huff post, if the site claimed the year was 2015, I would make sure to verify it using my very own calendar. Edited October 16, 2015 by Stargazer
why me Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Not to mention those members who joined because the church had the guts to stand up to gay marriage. Many people are looking for churches who don't cave in to social pressure and social blackmail. Those members who did leave were most likely a lttle weak anyway since the idea of eternal marriage has been taught quite often in various sunday meetings. And the proclamation has been around for quite some time.
rockpond Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Another hit piece on the church at the Huffington post. Basically attacking the Church because the Church went on a campaign against gay marriage. Normal stuff but this particular claim I found interesting: "Insiders have indicated that over the last seven years the Mormon Church may have lost up to 1 million members because of all it did to end gay marriage. These formerly loyal Church members decided to side with their lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) family members and friends instead of their Church." http://www.huffingtonpost.com/fred-karger/mormon-church-bleeding-me_b_8299882.html I don't know where they get this from but really 1 million over gay marriage? I am sure a some members might decide to with the LGBT group over Christ but I can't think of one person that has left over gay marriage. If one million is true, I should be aware of at least 5 or 10 by myself. It was a ridiculous, attention grabbing headline that had absolutely NO support within the article itself. But, with respect to your "5 or 10" comment, I will say that within online forums I have heard far more than that state that Prop 8 was a key factor in their leaving the Church (either formally or informally). Anecdotal and not a representative sample, just responding to comment.
HappyJackWagon Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 It was a ridiculous, attention grabbing headline that had absolutely NO support within the article itself. But, with respect to your "5 or 10" comment, I will say that within online forums I have heard far more than that state that Prop 8 was a key factor in their leaving the Church (either formally or informally). Anecdotal and not a representative sample, just responding to comment.Terrible article!Prop 8 and the current relationship between the church and LGBT issues are causing problems for many members. There are elements of truth in the article but it is so venomous that the author of this article harms the cause he's trying to help. No one can take that article seriously.
jkwilliams Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I think most leave over finding out church history. Yep, that's what I see, too. The only way the church has "lost" 1 million members is if you count all the inactives as lost, but there's no way that the church's position on gay marriage was the main factor for more than a tiny fraction of that. That article was more than a little absurd. Of course, this is the Huffington Post. Full disclosure: I work for the company that owns HuffPo. If you ask if I'm in charge of vetting Mormon-related content, I will just say "no comment."
california boy Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Terrible article!Prop 8 and the current relationship between the church and LGBT issues are causing problems for many members. There are elements of truth in the article but it is so venomous that the author of this article harms the cause he's trying to help. No one can take that article seriously.I agree. The author is a known guy who brought the lawsuits against the church for not being truthful about campaign donation. The church was found guilty and fined, but it was the author who has been an activist against the church. He also tried to take away the tax exemption status of the church. Hardly a bias-free article. The headline should have read, "I would like the Mormon church to loose a million members". While I know of some that have left the church over this issue, I highly doubt it is anywhere close to the numbers Kruger wants to believe. I hate distortion of truth on both sides of this issue. 1
JAHS Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I started a thread on this in the News forum yesterday in case anyone wants to see other resopnses. Hard to know sometimes where to post such things. 1
jkwilliams Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I agree. The author is a known guy who brought the lawsuits against the church for not being truthful about campaign donation. The church was found guilty and fined, but it was the author who has been an activist against the church. He also tried to take away the tax exemption status of the church. Hardly a bias-free article. The headline should have read, "I would like the Mormon church to loose a million members". While I know of some that have left the church over this issue, I highly doubt it is anywhere close to the numbers Kruger wants to believe. I hate distortion of truth on both sides of this issue.I know a few people for whom this issue was the proverbial last straw, but the article is silly. Your assessment is spot on.
Popular Post Thinking Posted October 16, 2015 Popular Post Posted October 16, 2015 may have lost up to 1 million members... I may have made up to a million dollars last year. 7
omni Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I may have made up to a million dollars last year.At least that's what some insiders told you. 4
Kenngo1969 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I may have made up to a million dollars last year.Thus, I may ask you for a loan, and for very favorable terms.
Kenngo1969 Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 At least that's what some insiders told you. I'm sure they're about as reliable as Grant Palmer's conveniently-anonymous General Authority. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 As a Wikipedia editor myself, I'm actually offended by that statement.Wikipedia has been shown to as reliable as many professional publications.Please read: "How Accurate is Wikipedia?" on LiveScience. The fact that Wikipedia's edit model makes it possible for people to insert garbage is offset by the fact that changes to the site are watched by thousands of dedicated editors who catch and correct attempts to vandalize it. Of course it's not perfect.You might find Wikipedia's own assessment of its accuracy to be of interest: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reliability_of_WikipediaNOW, as to the Huff post, if the site claimed the year was 2015, I would make sure to verify it using my very own calendar.Roger Nicholson of FairMormon (known here as Wiki Wonka) has addressed the matter of the treatment of Mormonism and Mormon-related subjects on Wikipedia. He has done this in a number of places, including the FairMormon Conference. But here's a link to his article in Interpreter: a Journal of Mormon Scripture. 1
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 Not to mention those members who joined because the church had the guts to stand up to gay marriage. Many people are looking for churches who don't cave in to social pressure and social blackmail. Those members who did leave were most likely a lttle weak anyway since the idea of eternal marriage has been taught quite often in various sunday meetings. And the proclamation has been around for quite some time.Indeed. Those who got huffy and left over the Church's stance regarding marriage need to recognize that if any party changed, it was they, not the Church.
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 It was a ridiculous, attention grabbing headline that had absolutely NO support within the article itself. But, with respect to your "5 or 10" comment, I will say that within online forums I have heard far more than that state that Prop 8 was a key factor in their leaving the Church (either formally or informally). Anecdotal and not a representative sample, just responding to comment.Apart from anonymous individuals posting online, I am personally acquainted with absolutely no one who left the Church over the gay marriage issue. And I know a good deal of Mormons. Anecdotal and not a representative sample, just responding to comment. 2
Scott Lloyd Posted October 16, 2015 Posted October 16, 2015 I started a thread on this in the News forum yesterday in case anyone wants to see other resopnses. Hard to know sometimes where to post such things.I rarely look at the In the News forum anymore. Those who want their threads to get attention and traffic will post them here. If I ran the circus, In the News would be merged with this forum.
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