longview Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 (edited) Not to derail but this is a VERY interesting question: http://bit.ly/1GPVqNo Edited to add: this link was working but it may no longer be. This was about a Moslem-owned bakery that refused to do service for a homosexual customer. BUT the left (i.e. the activist or "brownshirts") is unwilling to go after them like they do of Christian businesses! Edited November 1, 2015 by longview
Tacenda Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 If your wife discovered you were having sex with another woman you'd deserve it.If you were discovered having sex with your wife, where is the problem? Once again, they were JOSEPH'S WIVES.Until we stop differentiating between Emma and the other wives, and recognize that they were ALL equally his wives, we will never get plural marriage figured out. All wives. All equal. All authorized to have relations with their husband.Joseph publicly denied he had wives remember? In his mind it wasn't legal to have more than one wife. That way he wasn't lying about it. So technically they weren't his wives.
JLHPROF Posted November 1, 2015 Posted November 1, 2015 Joseph publicly denied he had wives remember? In his mind it wasn't legal to have more than one wife. That way he wasn't lying about it. So technically they weren't his wives. Yes Joseph denied having more than one wife when speaking publicly. And it was true that legally he only had one wife in the eyes of those who hadn't yet been taught of eternal or plural marriage. But to say the other women he married weren't "technically his wives" is to imply a difference that Joseph wasn't stating. Those in the know on plural marriage (the Holy Order) would have considered these women 100% his wives. It's the pearls before swine rule.
Daniel2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Not to derail but this is a VERY interesting question:http://bit.ly/1GPVqNoEdited to add: this link was working but it may no longer be. This was about a Moslem-owned bakery that refused to do service for a homosexual customer. BUT the left (i.e. the activist or "brownshirts") is unwilling to go after them like they do of Christian businesses!Hi, Longview,I appreciate you taking the time to post the above link. It's always helpful to examine specific examples during discussions like this, because they help all of us clarify our positions.I'm familiar with the clip you posted, but I took the time to watch it several times again (the link was working just fine for me).Mr. Crowder (the conservative host of the news show featured in your clip) tried to make it appear that those of us who support laws protecting LGBT citizens from discrimination (in the realm of public accommodations on the same, equal grounds as we support laws protecting religious citizens from discrimination in the realm of public accommodations) are applying a double-standard by allegedly "going after Christian businesses" while allegedly being "unwilling to go after Muslim bakeries...that refused to do business with a homosexual customer."What Mr. Crowder omits from his report is the fact that what he's asking from the Muslim bakers is ENTIRELY DIFFERENT than what has been asked of the Christian bakers (or florists). In each of Mr. Crowder's vides, what he's asking of the Muslim bakers is to write a SPECIFIC MESSAGE on a cake, featuring written statements or pictures advocating in favor of same-sex marriage in general, or in favor of a specific couple. The First Amendment of the Constitution PROTECTS the free-speech rights of business owners (including bakers, printing companies, etc) to not be compelled to have to produce a product that has a specific message written or drawn on a cake. Specifically, two court rulings demonstrate this reality: Christian Print Shop Wins Discrimination Case and Colorado's Reverse Discrimination: Yes to Gay Marriage, No to Bible Verses (click on the above titled links for the sources identifying the rulings I'm referring to).The difference between Mr. Crowther's false analogy and the reality of the Christian business owners is that the Christian bakers were simply being asked to provide the SAME wedding cakes (or floral arrangements) for the gay couples that they provide for their straight customers--without any resemblance to the free-speech-encompassing Muslim-bakeries' false analogies that the host was at attempting to provoke.In short: this news host is either ignorant of these issues, or intentionally ignoring the factual differences of these issues in a (failed) attempt to allege hypocrisy where none actually exists and the application of law and constitutional protections are entirely consistent.Once again: I appreciate you bringing up the issue for clarification so that all may see the falsehood being spread by this radio show host.For future reference: labeling those of us who support equal civil rights for gays and lesbians as "brownshirts" belies a bias that isn't likely to add to mutually respectful conversation. ;-) Edited November 2, 2015 by Daniel2 2
why me Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) Joseph publicly denied he had wives remember? In his mind it wasn't legal to have more than one wife. That way he wasn't lying about it. So technically they weren't his wives.I think that it had more to do with the reaction of people to the news that mormons were practicing polygamy. It wasn't only joseph who had more than one wife. Hyrum also had more than one wife. So, this wasn't a joseph thing at all but a mormon thing. The reaction of the people surrounding the lds community would have been swift. But for some strange reason, people just can't get that polygamy was practiced by others in the lds community besides Joseph. Similarly, Hyrum Smith’s plural wife Mercy Rachel Thompson stated that she kept the revelation “some four or five days. Something like that.”50 She also recalled: “I saw that revelation on polygamy, and had it in my hands – saw what kind of paper it was written on. It was written on foolscap paper.”51 Writing in 1886 she reminisced: “On the subject of Brother Hyrum reading it [the revelation] to the High Council, I well remember the circumstances. I remember he told me he had read it to the brethren in his office. He put it into my hands and left it with me for several days. I had been sealed to him by Brother Joseph a few weeks previously.”52 Lucy Walker testified that she saw the revelation “at the Nauvoo Mansion” where she was living.53 Nauvoo Church member Charles Lambert recounted: The Prophet used to hold meetings in a Log house of his sometimes twice a week I donot [sic] remember missing one when I had a chance at one of these he said he wished he had a people that he could reveal to them what the Lord had shown to him but one thing I will say there are thousands of Spirits that have been waiting to come forth in this day and generation thier proper channel is through the Priesthood a way has to be provided but the time has come and they have got to come anyway and thus left me in a fix. Some time after this Wm Clayton told me if I would come down into the basement of the Temple he wanted to show me something and that I might bring Stephen Hales with me we went into a little place boxed of[f] for a paint shop for Wm Pitt he been present there Br Wm C. read unto us the Revelation on Plural Marriage. This explained the above I believed it yet did not obey the same until 1872. I think it was on or about the 6th of May 1844 the Prophet Joseph came up to the Temple and clasping his arms arround me and lifted me of[f] my feet then said the Lord bless thee and I bless thee.54 http://josephsmithspolygamy.org/history-2/changes-in-june-1842/ Edited November 2, 2015 by why me
Guest Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 If we keep losing all these millions, we won't have enough for the Christmas program on Dec 6th, to fill the conference. Who is doing the math; congress?
Daniel2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 (edited) If we keep losing all these millions, we won't have enough for the Christmas program on Dec 6th, to fill the conference. Who is doing the math; congress? Hey, PaPa! Every year, my husband and I (both of whom ultimately left the church because of it's stance on same-sex relationships) put in lottery requests for tickets to the Tabernacle Choir Christmas Concerts, and we bring as many of our kids, grandkids, and siblings to the concert as we can get tickets for... Members of other Faiths (or of no Faith at all) still enjoy the beauty of the concerts, as well as the Christmas devotional on the 6th. Last year, we loved the Muppet's Count and the organist's dueling organs! Edited November 2, 2015 by Daniel2
ERayR Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 Hey, PaPa! Every year, my husband and I (both of whom ultimately left the church because of it's stance on same-sex relationships) put in lottery requests for tickets to the Tabernacle Choir Christmas Concerts, and we bring as many of our kids, grandkids, and siblings to the concert as we can get tickets for... Members of other Faiths (or of no Faith at all) still enjoy the beauty of the concerts, as well as the Christmas devotional on the 6th. Last year, we loved the Muppet's Count and the organist's dueling organs! You missed PaPa's satire.
Daniel2 Posted November 2, 2015 Posted November 2, 2015 You missed PaPa's satire. I know his comment was with his tongue firmly planted in his cheek in that he doesn't believe the church is bleeding that many members over this issue... I just figured it was worth sharing that Christmas programs can be enjoyed by all, regardless of religious affiliation, as well.
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