Dehlin, Reel, And Other Do-Gooders Asking For Money To Do...good.

[Jeanne]

Can you provide an authoritative reference that Deseret Book really is selling such a thing?

 

I just checked Google. I've seen some chatter on anti-Mormon and apostate sites, and I saw what appears to be a bogus Deseret Book web page, meant to mock.

 

But so far, I haven't seen what seems to me to be genuine advertising from Deseret Book for something like this. Am I missing something? A link would be nice.

 

And yes, this is a CFR.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

I just went to Deseret Book's home page and typed in "seer stone" as a search term. A bunch of books popped up, but no souvenir or replica or whatever it be.

 

Still wondering about this. Can anybody help Jeanne out?

 

Seems to me that for somebody with a modicum of computer or Photoshop capability, it would be fairly easy to fake something like this.

 

I'll keep looking, but this is appearing more and more doubtful.

Yes, I found out it was a hoax and I knew it.  I wanted to find out if anyone here would come to the defense of Deseret Book.  I was wrong and I am sorry.

That being said, there will be books..and more pictures don't you think?  Will an apostle or someone else grab hold of the history now as it comes to light ot many, and with earnest study make an income?  Again, I apologize.  I appreciate the church for finally getting something out there..for those on the fence, it may be too little, too late.  Some will say...Yeah..a seer stone..and some will say.."it is a rock".

 

Edited to add:  My daughter sent this to me..I am not computer literate..so I can't post the link...I am just thinking that what we may define as priestcraft is could be just the nature of human beings.

Edited August 5, 2015 by Jeanne

[Brian 2.0]

“Priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the Welfare of Zion…. "  2 Ne. 26:29.

 

I have noticed that websites and organizations purporting to lend a hand to the "outcast and downtrodden" among us also ask for donations and sell products.  The explanation is that their charitable "service" costs money.  Dehlin for example made a nice little wage, paying his graduate school and "living" costs.  Bill Reel is another, who asks for donations and even has a "products" page where he sells his own work. http://www.mormondiscussionpodcast.org/products/

 

I think they would contend that they are seeking Zion’s welfare…trying to help and lift.  But then, isn’t it also true that, according to Matthew 6:24, you “cannot serve both God and mammon?”  How are these people doing anything but serving mammon, in the name of God no less, where money is passing hands?  Is the fact that their self-proclaimed poverty or proffer that they do not make “much” really a defense?  Does it matter?

 

Personally, I stay away from anyone using the "compassionate insider" persona that has a shopping card and a credit card slide.  If you want to be a servant of compassion, do your home teaching, say I. 

 

At what point does this "service" cross the line to priestcraft.  Or is there even a line to cross?  Is this not also approaching blasphemy?

 

Say Bill's podcast didn't have any controversial subjects in it.  It was just a podcast devoted to helping the downtrodden and those with feeble knees and he strengthened them by singing hymns, reading poetry, and posting funny cat pics.  And he also asked for donations.

 

Is that okay?  

 

Is it the content that makes you question whether Bill's podcast is priestcraft?

Is it the target audience combined with asking for money?

Is it the motive of the podcaster?

Edited August 5, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[Mormonmaniac]

So, are you contending that Dehlin and Reel are going to hell?

Well, they aren't headed towards heaven. What's left?

[Mormonmaniac]

Are people who come to different conclusions than you guilty of pride?

Being wrong and flaunting it and wanting money for it is being prideful

[Robert F. Smith]

Can you provide an authoritative reference that Deseret Book really is selling such a thing?

 

I just checked Google. I've seen some chatter on anti-Mormon and apostate sites, and I saw what appears to be a bogus Deseret Book web page, meant to mock.

 

But so far, I haven't seen what seems to me to be genuine advertising from Deseret Book for something like this. Am I missing something? A link would be nice.

 

And yes, this is a CFR.

 

 

Edited to add:

 

I just went to Deseret Book's home page and typed in "seer stone" as a search term. A bunch of books popped up, but no souvenir or replica or whatever it be.

 

Still wondering about this. Can anybody help Jeanne out?

 

Seems to me that for somebody with a modicum of computer or Photoshop capability, it would be fairly easy to fake something like this.

 

I'll keep looking, but this is appearing more and more doubtful.

Sounds like a job for a 3-D printer, Scott.   If not Deseret Book, then maybe Seagull?  Didn't Joseph once say that everyone should have his own seerstone?

[Brian 2.0]

Well, they aren't headed towards heaven. What's left?

 

 

Being wrong and flaunting it and wanting money for it is being prideful

 

I must say, your really do live up to your name sometimes.  

[Brian 2.0]

Didn't Joseph once say that everyone should have his own seerstone?

 

Pretty much:

 

“[Joseph Smith, Jr. said] every man who lived on the earth was entitled to a seer stone, and should have one, but they are kept from them in consequence of their wickedness.”

- Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864

 

 

“[Joseph Smith, Jr.] claims and believes that there is a [seer] stone of this quality, somewhere, for every one.”

- Patriarch Joseph Smith, Sr., in Fayette Lampham, “Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet,” p. 306, also Kirkham, New Witness for Christ in America, v. 2, p. 384

 

 

 

ETA:  This is probably off-topic though and should go in the other thread.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Brian 2.0

[Scott Lloyd]

Pretty much:

 

- Prophet Brigham Young, “History of Brigham Young,” Latter-day Saints’ Millennial Star, v. 26, February 20, 1864

 

 

- Patriarch Joseph Smith, Sr., in Fayette Lampham, “Interview with the Father of Joseph Smith, the Mormon Prophet,” p. 306, also Kirkham, New Witness for Christ in America, v. 2, p. 384

 

 

 

ETA:  This is probably off-topic though and should go in the other thread.

Yes.

 

It seems Jeanne was attempting to troll us and has now apologized.

 

I'm willing to drop it at this point and not have it further derail the thread.

 

And since I don't have anything to say on the thread topic, I'm out.

Edited August 6, 2015 by Scott Lloyd

[ttribe]

Well, they aren't headed towards heaven. What's left?

Last time I checked the scriptures, there's only one judge of such things, and I'm pretty sure you aren't Him.

Edited August 6, 2015 by ttribe

[Mormonmaniac]

Last time I checked the scriptures, there's only one judge of such things, and I'm pretty sure you aren't Him.

Just warning others of the wolves.

[Tacenda]

Thanks for the comments. Let me clarify a few things:

I am speaking specifically to people that market their websites to vulnerable types of people...the abused, the disaffected, etc. Now, I don't doubt that many people truly want to help others, but there is also a great risk that they prey on susceptible persons. On its face, their "service" is in direct conflict with their personal gain. For example, Bill Reel's website states that it exists to "strengthening feeble knees and lifting hands that hang." I guess we should ask, who's arms and knees is he trying to help? His own? I think Reel's head got big after he was made a Bishop, got a little air time with John Dehlin, and thought "I can do this too!" And now, he's of the mind that a "personal visit from Bill" is marketable. Gag!

I think John Dehlin's is an extremely dangerous case. If I correctly recall, Dehlin was getting a master's degree is psychology. So, here you have a mental health professional that talks about the mental health challenges of church separation, abuse, blah, blah. He thereby created a new market for his unique services. And then, marketing cruises for couples therapy and everything else to boot. Exceptionally crafty, Dehlin is. And, exceptionally dangerous.

I hope everyone can see why Deseret Book isn't even in the same discussion. In full disclosure, I really am not a fan of the Mormon media market. But we are not talking about general audience marketing. My concern is where "compassionate insiders" market to susceptible, and often legitimate victims that are desperately looking for solutions. If you tell them what they want to hear, human nature says that they'll pay...voluntarily.

I can agree with you on some points if the church is true, but if the FV didn't happen, then it is a fraud, a sham, a delusion and blasphemy, according to some of GBH's past statements. It may be important to be warned. But I'm not convinced it did or didn't happen yet. ETA: "Warned" was a bad description. I guess John & Bill were/are aware of the reasons members are struggling and try to be a net. John 'was' a net to keep members from jumping ship and Bill is a net for now. But now that the church is acknowledging confusing church history, hopefully they'll be a net too. Some just don't have the luxury of having a strong spiritual witness after knowing some controversial issues. Edited August 6, 2015 by Tacenda

[Tacenda]

So I still haven't found anything authentic from Deseret Book advertising a replica seer stone.

 

But I did take a moment to glance at some of the chatter on the RfM website (exMormon.org). Even some of the good folks there have spotted this as a fake.

 

"That's a Photoshop, and not even a good one at that," says one.

 

"Uh... That's PhotoShop there. Until somebody can point me to a link at deseret book's web site indicating availability, I'm pretty sure somebody's just trolling you," says another.

 

Still, I'll wait to see whether Jeanne can answer the CFR or, alternatively, admit that she has been duped.

Give it time, they sold a replica of the Liahona didn't they?

https://deseretbook.com/p/liahona-latter-day-designs-47474?taxon_id=10013&variant_id=55501

[strappinglad]

When I think of priest craft ,I think of the likes of Peter Popoff and his ministry. He also asked/asks for donations. Apparently there is big money in it. Nice work if you succeed in searing your conscience .

[ttribe]

Just warning others of the wolves.

Not your place. If you really do believe in the the Spirit, perhaps you should trust him to do his job. Besides, declaring that someone else is going to hell isn't warning others about those people, it's an exercise in flexing your own self righteousness and ego.

Edited August 6, 2015 by ttribe

[jkwilliams]

Not your place. If you really do believe in the the Spirit, perhaps you should trust him to do his job. Besides, declaring that someone else is going to hell isn't warning others about those people, it's an exercise in flexing your own self righteousness and ego.

Spoken like a true wolf.

[ttribe]

Spoken like a true wolf.

Grrrrrrr.

[sethpayne]

Spoken like a true wolf.

 

Shh!!!!

 

We are trying to keep this on the DL, JKW!

[Duncan]

I don't know who Bill Reel is and why the kerfuffle is about him lately, is he ICE-T's rapper cousin or something?

[Teancum]

 What is Deseret Book's motto?  Is it anything like ""strengthening feeble knees and lifting hands that hang."  Who does it cater to?

 

Are there "self-help" books?  Sure.  Are there "Dealing With Patriarchal Abuse?"  Probably not.  I hope you can see those are very different things.  Deseret Book markets to the general public.  Dehlin and Reel do not.  They market to victims.  And they happily take their money.

.

CFR that Dehlin and Reel market to victims.

[rockpond]

Being wrong and flaunting it and wanting money for it is being prideful

 

CFR what Bill said that is wrong, how he flaunted it, and wanted money for it.  These misrepresentations of people and baseless accusations are ridiculous.  Can we not elevate the discourse a bit?

[Mormonmaniac]

Not your place. If you really do believe in the the Spirit, perhaps you should trust him to do his job. Besides, declaring that someone else is going to hell isn't warning others about those people, it's an exercise in flexing your own self righteousness and ego.

Folks like Bill worry me more than anyone. Let me explain why. First- they are in a high leadership position with an exacting stewardship. Second- they have established their voice to a large audience. Third- they have questioned the validity of the prophets.

Now, when you combine those three it sets for a big prideful downfall into apostacy. Not only that but they drag so many with them to also question the prophets. If he really is a bishop, he has no business questioning the authority of the church on important issues let alone posting his voice all over the world as a voice of questioning dissent. There is a proper way to question the church and it's history and beliefs. His method is like a wolf set out to devour lost sheep. I am sorry if I am blunt but I have seen this before and it doesn't end well.

[ttribe]

Folks like Bill worry me more than anyone. Let me explain why. First- they are in a high leadership position with an exacting stewardship. Second- they have established their voice to a large audience. Third- they have questioned the validity of the prophets.

Now, when you combine those three it sets for a big prideful downfall into apostacy. Not only that but they drag so many with them to also question the prophets. If he really is a bishop, he has no business questioning the authority of the church on important issues let alone posting his voice all over the world as a voice of questioning dissent. There is a proper way to question the church and it's history and beliefs. His method is like a wolf set out to devour lost sheep. I am sorry if I am blunt but I have seen this before and it doesn't end well.

Are you Bill Reel's Stake President? I suspect not. Since that is likely the case, you have no stewardship in the matter. I suggest trusting those who do have that responsibility to do their job.

[Bob Crockett]

Folks like Bill worry me more than anyone. Let me explain why. First- they are in a high leadership position with an exacting stewardship. Second- they have established their voice to a large audience. Third- they have questioned the validity of the prophets.

Now, when you combine those three it sets for a big prideful downfall into apostacy. Not only that but they drag so many with them to also question the prophets. If he really is a bishop, he has no business questioning the authority of the church on important issues let alone posting his voice all over the world as a voice of questioning dissent. There is a proper way to question the church and it's history and beliefs. His method is like a wolf set out to devour lost sheep. I am sorry if I am blunt but I have seen this before and it doesn't end well.

I think Bill is just having a little fun, and if he snares the sanctimonious he his having more fun. Listen to his podcasts before judgment. He is different there. I think his written output is terrible and doesn't do him justice. I have been guilty of confusing his lack of grammatical skill with lack of ability.

[Mormonmaniac]

Are you Bill Reel's Stake President? I suspect not. Since that is likely the case, you have no stewardship in the matter. I suggest trusting those who do have that responsibility to do their job.

The warning flag is already there plain as day. I feel it the responsibility of members to spot a wolf and cry out. I am crying out, that is all.

[Mormonmaniac]

I think Bill is just having a little fun, and if he snares the sanctimonious he his having more fun. Listen to his podcasts before judgment. He is different there. I think his written output is terrible and doesn't do him justice. I have been guilty of confusing his lack of grammatical skill with lack of ability.

Will I hear a howl?