Pres. Packer Died

[Rain]

I can't remember.  Do they generally wait till conference to announce/sustain/call a new apostle?  I'm not sure what t call that because if we know before conference then we aren't sustaining a new one yet.  Looking at the dates then I can see the calls didn't all come at conference.  I'm just wanting to know when, in general, the members get to know.

[Mystery Meat]

I can't remember.  Do they generally wait till conference to announce/sustain/call a new apostle?  I'm not sure what t call that because if we know before conference then we aren't sustaining a new one yet.  Looking at the dates then I can see the calls didn't all come at conference.  I'm just wanting to know when, in general, the members get to know.

 

With there being two vacancies and at least one other who is no longer participating, they are short staffed. I would not be surprised if calls were issued before conference to help with the burden of Church leadership.

[JAHS]

I'll be honest, with the aging and passing of two leaders now, and perhaps more in the fairly near future, I think it's a good thing. It's the 21st century and I believe we need some new, and yes, younger blood, in the 12 and 1st Presidency.

 

What is needed is a  fresh perspective for moving forward with our changing culture

No, we need prophets who will stay the course and continue to receive revelation from God according to what He wants us to do, not what people in the 21st century changing culture want us to do.

Edited July 4, 2015 by JAHS

[carbon dioxide]

I'll be honest, with the aging and passing of two leaders now, and perhaps more in the fairly near future, I think it's a good thing. It's the 21st century and I believe we need some new, and yes, younger blood, in the 12 and 1st Presidency.

 

What is needed is a  fresh perspective for moving forward with our changing culture

There will be natural changes that will occur.  As the Church becomes more non-American, we will see non-white apostles.  Perhaps a black or Hispanic one within the next 20 years.   I can understand the need for younger apostles.  They are able to do more than older ones and that will occur with turnover as well.

 

I don't know what you mean by a fresh perspective with our changing culture. One of the main missions of the Church is to prepare people to stand before God at the judgement bar.  If changing with the culture leaves one ill prepared to do that, the Church really has no purpose.  The Church needs to move forward with doing its job and keeping the culture from staining us.  Some adjustments may be required with the change of times but we must keep our eyes what is really important and what truly lasts.

[Avatar4321]

The culture needs to be changing for the better. We need to be the influence on that cultural change.

[cinepro]

I'll be honest, with the aging and passing of two leaders now, and perhaps more in the fairly near future, I think it's a good thing. It's the 21st century and I believe we need some new, and yes, younger blood, in the 12 and 1st Presidency.

 

What is needed is a  fresh perspective for moving forward with our changing culture

 

Yes, I'm sure the new Apostles will bring fresh new perspectives on a great many issues, like only a seasoned LDS leader in their 50's or 60's can.

Edited July 4, 2015 by cinepro

[thesometimesaint]

Prayers to friends and family. He was in such ill health I imagine being released from his mission was a relief.

[Freedom]

He was a good man but he won't be missed any more than any other apostle was missed. The church will go on without skipping a beat. I will not miss his opinions on evolution and homosexuality. I suspect that Elder Scott will pass before the end of the year.

[The Nehor]

I'll be honest, with the aging and passing of two leaders now, and perhaps more in the fairly near future, I think it's a good thing. It's the 21st century and I believe we need some new, and yes, younger blood, in the 12 and 1st Presidency.

 

What is needed is a  fresh perspective for moving forward with our changing culture

 

I am sure God is very grateful for your input on this matter and will take your counsel under advisement.

 

I ran into one guy convinced he should be an apostle because he had great ideas as to how the church should be run. My thought was that anyone who thinks he knows how the church should be run should never be an apostle.

[Garden Girl]

I loved Elder Packer... and have been thankful for his counsel many times during the years since I reactivated.  I will miss him...

 

GG

[cinepro]

I've mentioned this before, but President Packer spoke at my Stake Conference about 10 years ago, and it was a great experience. He told many personal stories (he had once lived in the area), and it was a very enjoyable (and memorable) experience. It is unfortunate, but perhaps inevitable, that Church leaders get judged based on their General Conference talks and "persona", when I suspect their harshest critics would be surprised at how different they are in person.

[Dgal]

There will be natural changes that will occur.  As the Church becomes more non-American, we will see non-white apostles.  Perhaps a black or Hispanic one within the next 20 years.   I can understand the need for younger apostles.  They are able to do more than older ones and that will occur with turnover as well.

 

I don't know what you mean by a fresh perspective with our changing culture. One of the main missions of the Church is to prepare people to stand before God at the judgement bar.  If changing with the culture leaves one ill prepared to do that, the Church really has no purpose.  The Church needs to move forward with doing its job and keeping the culture from staining us.  Some adjustments may be required with the change of times but we must keep our eyes what is really important and what truly lasts.

What I mean is that right now, to look at the leadership, it's looks for the most part is, whitey whitey American.

 

It's the 21st century. It needs to look as global as it is. That includes it's leadership at the highest level.

Right now there is 15+million members. Which is less than the population of Illinois.

[ERayR]

I am sure God is very grateful for your input on this matter and will take your counsel under advisement.

 

I ran into one guy convinced he should be an apostle because he had great ideas as to how the church should be run. My thought was that anyone who thinks he knows how the church should be run should never be an apostle.

 

You promised our conversation would be confidential.

[Tacenda]

I looked at the first few comments. The first one says "Good riddance. The world is a less hateful place." Apparently the irony is lost on the commenter. I can say the President Packer has been perhaps more influential on me than any other apostle in my lifetime. I have at times disagreed with him, but those who call him a hater missed the majority of his talks/words.

Those are heartless people, that judge worse then they say Pres. Packer did, hypocrites!

RIP Pres. Packer, you were true to your beliefs.

[Calm]

I've mentioned this before, but President Packer spoke at my Stake Conference about 10 years ago, and it was a great experience. He told many personal stories (he had once lived in the area), and it was a very enjoyable (and memorable) experience. It is unfortunate, but perhaps inevitable, that Church leaders get judged based on their General Conference talks and "persona", when I suspect their harshest critics would be surprised at how different they are in person.

I understand why they don't, but I wish we (humanity) were less prone to taking things out of context so such meetings could be broadcasted and shared with anyone who wanted to share them. I think I would like this to happen for stake conferences on up.

[The Nehor]

You promised our conversation would be confidential.

 

Had my fingers crossed.

[Kenngo1969]

I'll be honest, with the aging and passing of two leaders now, and perhaps more in the fairly near future, I think it's a good thing. It's the 21st century and I believe we need some new, and yes, younger blood, in the 12 and 1st Presidency.

 

What is needed is a  fresh perspective for moving forward with our changing culture

 

I believe these men are called of God, and are led by Him.  They're not simply doddering old fools who have lost it and are behind the times anyway, so it's about time many of them kick the bucket. A few months ago, I gave a talk in the ward in which I resided then, in which I quoted the following from Elder Jeffrey R. Holland (I commend the entire address to you: https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2006/10/prophets-in-the-land-again?lang=eng; yes, things have changed since he delivered it in 2006, but not that much, and, while your mileage may vary, the ways in which they have changed have only confirmed for me that there are indeed "Prophets In The Land Again" who earnestly seek the Lord's will, who strive to implement it, and who are led by Him as they do so):

 

As the least of those who have been sustained by you to witness the guidance of this Church firsthand, I say with all the fervor of my soul that never in my personal or professional life have I ever associated with any group who are so in touch, who know so profoundly the issues facing us, who look so deeply into the old, stay so open to the new, and weigh so carefully, thoughtfully, and prayerfully everything in between. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.] I testify that the grasp this body of men and women have of moral and societal issues exceeds that of any think tank or brain trust of comparable endeavor of which I know anywhere on the earth. I bear personal witness of how thoroughly good they are, of how hard they work, and how humbly they live. It is no trivial matter for this Church to declare to the world prophecy, seership, and revelation, but we do declare it. It is true light shining in a dark world, and it shines from these proceedings.

 

I believe, in accordance with what the Lord said in the Doctrine and Covenants, that "all flesh is in [God's] hand," and that what the Lord told Joseph Smith is true of all of us: "Thy days are known, and shall not be numbered less."  I don't think the Lord is waiting impatiently, tapping his foot, checking his watch, and sighing as he calculates how long it's going to take some of those alleged doddering old fools to die off so that He can finally implement some aspect of His Work that they, somehow, are currently impeding. I believe God's assurance to those who might be tempted to condescend to Him: "I am able to do mine own work."

 

P.S.: At the risk of engaging in shameless self-promotion, here are my remarks on that occasion in their entirety: https://greatgourdini.wordpress.com/2015/05/25/on-being-led-by-living-prophets/

Edited July 4, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

What I mean is that right now, to look at the leadership, it's looks for the most part is, whitey whitey American.

 

It's the 21st century. It needs to look as global as it is. That includes it's leadership at the highest level.

Right now there is 15+million members. Which is less than the population of Illinois.

Yep!  Affirmative Action, Baby!  That's what we need!  If I were Elder Sitati or Elder Dube and didn't get the call, I'd sue! That's what I'd do!

Edited July 4, 2015 by Kenngo1969

[Kenngo1969]

Those are heartless people, that judge worse then they say Pres. Packer did, hypocrites!

RIP Pres. Packer, you were true to your beliefs.

Due respect accorded one of the Brethren!  Good call, Tacenda: gave you a rep point for it.

[JAHS]

What I mean is that right now, to look at the leadership, it's looks for the most part is, whitey whitey American.

 

It's the 21st century. It needs to look as global as it is. That includes it's leadership at the highest level.

Right now there is 15+million members. Which is less than the population of Illinois.

You need to give the church a little more time. It is a relatively young church compared to others and it was fairly recent that the priesthood was gven to all men of color. It will eventually happen.

[Calm]

Look how long it took for a pope to come from a country outside of the Mediterranean area.

[Damien the Leper]

Boyd Packer wasn't very influential, spiritual speaking, for me. That's not to say there was no value in what he taught but his teachings didn't resound with my heart as much as Howard Hunter, David Haight and Joseph Wirthlin. Today, I look most forward to what Dieter Uchtdorf and Todd Christofferson.

Best wishes to Packer's family.

[Dgal]

Look how long it took for a pope to come from a country outside of the Mediterranean area.

I wasn't speaking specifically of the prophet, but more general about the highest level of leadership. The Catholic hierarchy is very diverse in it's bishops across the globe, who are the equivalent of the Quorum of 12.

 

 I would just like to have the Church look less whitey whitey American and far more diverse at all levels of it's leadership. In the 70's and in the 12.

[rodheadlee]

Do sun tans count?

[Stone holm]

Well many of them are very old men!

But I actually was quite fond of Elder Packer. He took a lot of criticism for a few GC talks and one to CES personel. But many of his talks were full of love and compassion as were his writings,

I always respected his honesty, frankness and willingness to be candid. I have this memory of him at a Priesthood leadership meeting being asked if additional Counselors would be appointed for Pres. Kimball. He could have given a mushy vacuous answer, instead, he said "No, Counselors are only called while the President is still mentally vigorous." It was evidence to me of a leader willing to say it like it was, practical and pragmatic without spin. Although I did not always agree with his approach to certain matters, I always thought he was straight forward. Dallin Oakks' supposed comment that Elder Packer was like trying to stage manage a grizzly bear to me merely evidenced the difference in character of the two men, rather than an accurate description of Elder Packer. He was a great icon of the Church and will be missed.