David13 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Yeah, thanks for that also, strappingglad, I'd use the reputation button if I could find out how to work it. I guess they don't have a "thank" feature here. I enjoyed the military honors at the funeral for L Tom Perry. But that was done by the Marine Corps. Will Boyd K Packer have similar honors? I know it's up to the family I guess, or is it standard procedure with these WWII vets? I know he wasn't in the Marine Corps.dc
Calm Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 (edited) You press the green arrow in the lower right hand corner. You may need to wait until 25 posts. Family needs to request military honors. You need to have documentation of service. http://usmilitary.about.com/od/jointservices/a/twentyonegun_2.htm BKP was air force like my dad. IIRC higher ranks have more options of what to do. wikipedia says he was a pilot but no rank. My dad was a pilot and had two, maybe three in attendance with a flag ceremony. (it was good that it was small as there weren't that many in attendance...just family as friends lived too far to travel and a lot his age were already gone, nasty day for it as we couldn't even drive up the hill on some of the roads to the graveside, we managed to have the graveside service during a brief lull and dashed back to the chapel for the meal). PS: wiki says LTP was in the MC. Edited July 7, 2015 by calmoriah
David13 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 LTP didn't get 21 guns, but he had 10 or so, from what I could see.dc
David13 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 LTP also had a live bugler. How come I can't edit? Do I have to have 25 posts to edit?dc
Calm Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 LTP also had a live bugler. How come I can't edit? Do I have to have 25 posts to edit?dcIt sounds like civilian leaders can merit more pomp so the logistics are more likely to work out for someone who was both military and well known.
Kenngo1969 Posted July 7, 2015 Posted July 7, 2015 Dgal, Yep! Affirmative Action, Baby! That's what we need! If I were Elder Sitati or Elder Dube and didn't get the call, I'd sue! That's what I'd do! If you were offended (but only if), I apologize for calling you "Baby" ...
Dgal Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Dgal, If you were offended (but only if), I apologize for calling you "Baby" ... No, not at all, Kenngo. There are so many more important things to spend energy on. Being called "baby" is so not important. LOL
Dgal Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Was this person an investigator?if he or she was, was the perception that it was an american church a positive or a negative?If it was a negative, do you think he or she would have been more likely join had there been more general authorities of more diverse races?No. It was just an observation on his part. He lives in a country that has a high degree of diverse cultures. Very New York City-esque. Sees the LDS church as being very white, and very American. He has neither negative nor positive thoughts about Mormonism.
Dgal Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 Dgal,Did you mention that there are now more members of that "American church" outside the U.S. than in? We were talking leadership.
Dgal Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is an American church, and a Spanish church, and an African church, and a Mexican church, and an Italian church, and a French church ... It may not attract very many converts from any one of those places, but it will attract the elect from all of them: "Mine elect hear my voice ..." But it will do that because they ARE the elect, and not because of affirmative action or for any other reason. I agree with you Kenngo.I'm also of the thought that the church will never become a large force in the world nor see large number of converts simply because it is the elect that will hear his voice. The rest will ignore it. With the influx of more missionaries over the past couple of years since the age change, the number of convert baptisms still has not increased all that much. I know we speak of the 15million plus members around the world, but lets face it, that is still a drop in the bucket in a world of 6 billion. It's less than the population of Illinois. Based also on the high numbers of inactives in the wards in the stake, and surrounding stakes, there aren't 15 million faithfully attending either. I think the national average, and I could be wrong in this, for any given denomination of attendees is about 30% in the USA? No idea about in other countries. I would have to look up that latest stats to be sure, though. Edited July 8, 2015 by Dgal
Dgal Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 And dang it, the Church of Jesus Christ can't win: It cannot attract members because its leadership is not diverse, or because it's racist, or sexist, or homophobic, or because it favors traditional marriage ... Dang, there are only about a million possibilities ... The Church can either stand for what's right, or it can try to please everyone, but it can't do both ... Good point. I'm just grapping with the idea, at least based on recent trends, it's never really going to be some massive global force.Case in point. The Catholic church has well over 1 billion people, and it's impact is not as massive as it once was.
Stargazer Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 LTP didn't get 21 guns, but he had 10 or so, from what I could see.dc 21 gun salutes are for cannon salutes, not funerals. At military funerals there is the 3-volley salute. Elder Packer was a bomber pilot in WW2.
Stargazer Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) It sounds like civilian leaders can merit more pomp so the logistics are more likely to work out for someone who was both military and well known. Military funerals are fairly uniform. I've been to a few, and they tend to be similar. My cousin who was in the Navy during WW2 but was nobody special had a live bugler for Taps and a three-volley rifle salute. Another friend of ours who was in the Army during WW2 and was nobody special had the same thing. Yet another friend of ours who was a Navy Medal of Honor awardee got all of the above AND a navy jet flyby. But MoH holders of any rank tend to get special treatment. Civilian leaders who were never in the military don't get military funerals, though. Except for US Presidents, who are ex officio Commanders-in-Chief, even if they were never in the military. Recommended: Military funerals in the United States Edited July 8, 2015 by Stargazer 1
Kenngo1969 Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) We were talking leadership. OK. So you think, perhaps, that there should be an Affirmative Action plan to make the First Presidency and the Twelve more diverse. But somebody has to lead all of those non-white, non-U.S. members, and, in many cases, that "somebody" sure as heck doesn't look like (for example) me. But I think we need to let go of the idea that only someone who looks like me can [fill-in-the--blank here]; for purposes of this discussion, we might fill in the blank with "lead my church." But if that idea were valid, there sure as heck would be quite a few more slightly overweight, balding, bespectacled white guys who walk with a pair of forearm crutches in the general leadership of the Church! And isn't that the whole point? It isn't my Church, or your Church, or anyone else's Church but the Lord's. Edited July 8, 2015 by Kenngo1969
Calm Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) Civilian leaders who were never in the military don't get military funerals, though. I meant civilian leaders who were once in the military... Thanks for the additional info. Edited July 8, 2015 by calmoriah
Stone holm Posted July 8, 2015 Posted July 8, 2015 (edited) OK. So you think, perhaps, that there should be an Affirmative Action plan to make the First Presidency and the Twelve more diverse. But somebody has to lead all of those non-white, non-U.S. members, and, in many cases, that "somebody" sure as heck doesn't look like (for example) me. But I think we need to let go of the idea that only someone who looks like me can [fill-in-the--blank here]; for purposes of this discussion, we might fill in the blank with "lead my church." But if that idea were valid, there sure as heck would be quite a few more slightly overweight, balding, bespectacled white guys who walk with a pair of forearm crutches in the general leadership of the Church! And isn't that the whole point? It isn't my Church, or your Church, or anyone else's Church but the Lord's. I think that perhaps people tend to use certain standards in trying to determine whether an organization is in fact the Lord's Church. Me, I tend not to give a rip who gets appointed an Apostle or Prophet, I figure if President Benson was good enough to eventually wind up at the helm...well the Lord probably doesn't spend as much time worrying about the whole leadership issue as we may think He does...if the Prophet doesn't basically sink the ship, probably good enough for Him. Meanwhile, He was working with the hearts and minds of His people without regards to what their skin color or gender is, and so long as the leadership hierarchy doesn't totally screw that up...well, life goes on. Edited July 8, 2015 by Stone holm 1
Kenngo1969 Posted July 10, 2015 Posted July 10, 2015 Apologies if this has already been posted: http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865632143/On-floor-of-US-Senate-Sen-Mike-Lee-honors-President-Boyd-K-Packer-as-man-of-principles.html
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