mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Oh, no! Someone who focuses so much on language seems to be making the word "optional" out to mean nothing... Nah. I am saying that obedience to the commandments is voluntary and that we have a choice to obey or not obey.
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Is it your understanding that tithing is "not required or mandatory"?What is your question? If you want a temple recommend it's mandatory. If you don't care, it's not. As always we can vote with our feet.
Calm Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 No. And that's the key, I think. Most of you are defending tithing as being "optional" because you've bought into the premise that if it is required then fraud is involved. Nah, this is a longstanding discussion. I remember having it as a kid.
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 No one forces you to pay income tax, either. If you choose not to pay, you suffer the consequences (fines, jail, etc). Isn't the same true of paying tithing? No one forces you to, but if you choose not to, you suffer the consequences (not being temple worthy, not getting to the celestial kingdom, etc). I said it before: if we stretch the definitions of mandatory and optional so far as to mean that anytime we have a choice to do something then doing it is optional, it makes the word meaningless.OK then YOU define "optional".
Tacenda Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 OK then YOU define "optional". It's optional alright, just as it's optional to chose to die by fire, and if you don't pay you don't love Jesus!
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 In response to the fraud case, many are claiming that tithing is optional. I beg to differ.I will be getting a settlement, for medical bills. It will be enough to buy a house, which I will rent out, as my wife and I will have to live with my a mother, because she cannot care for herself. So the question is, do I pay tithing on the settlement or the rent I receive?
Bikeemikey Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I will be getting a settlement, for medical bills. It will be enough to buy a house, which I will rent out, as my wife and I will have to live with my a mother, because she cannot care for herself. So the question is, do I pay tithing on the settlement or the rent I receive? both :-) Sucker!! 1
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I will be getting a settlement, for medical bills. It will be enough to buy a house, which I will rent out, as my wife and I will have to live with my a mother, because she cannot care for herself. So the question is, do I pay tithing on the settlement or the rent I receive?What is your "increase"? And what about that "or"? How much of that did God give you? Just deduct what God did not give you and you will have your answer Edited March 19, 2014 by mfbukowski
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 What is your "increase"? And what about that "or"? How much of that did God give you? Just deduct what God did not give you and you will have your answer The settlement is to cover my medical cost.
omni Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I will be getting a settlement, for medical bills. It will be enough to buy a house, which I will rent out, as my wife and I will have to live with my a mother, because she cannot care for herself. So the question is, do I pay tithing on the settlement or the rent I receive?Do you want rent blessings or settlement blessings?
Anijen Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I have heard from a number of individuals that were required to pay their last year's tithing before they were able to get their temple recommend. I don't know if this was official policy however. Any bishops in the house?This is wrong. The requirement is to be a full tithe payer (that could be zero). A Bishop will not ask for back anything (or they shouldn't), but will work with them to become current tithe payers and then if all else falls into place they get the recommend. Same thing goes for an excommunicated member, they do not pay tithing, and if they are re-baptized they are not asked to pay tithing back from when they were exed...
ALarson Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 This is wrong. The requirement is to be a full tithe payer (that could be zero). A Bishop will not ask for back anything (or they shouldn't), but will work with them to become current tithe payers and then if all else falls into place they get the recommend. What happened in the instances I know of (where the Bishop required the paying of past tithing owed), was that it was a family member (father, brother) who wanted to get a recommend to attend the temple wedding and were worthy except they hadn't paid tithing for at least a year. The Bishop agreed to giving them the recommend if they paid the past tithing owed. I really don't know what the church directive is regarding this and maybe there are some current or past Bishops who can address it. I tend to believe that it is at the discretion of the Bishop, but I don't really know.
strappinglad Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 It is my understanding that insurance is there to RESTORE one to the position one was at BEFORE the situation/accident happened. In other words not to make one better or worse off but the same , as if the events never happened. Often that goal is not achieved . In PaPa's case ,in my opinion, total restoration is never going to happen because of ongoing and likely permanent damage. My unsolicited advice is to pay on the future income generated by the settlement because the settlement was to put you back where you should have been, impossible though that is. One goes forward from there. As for the OP, the paying of tithing is OPTIONAL for the maintenance of membership in the church. It is not optional for the maintenance of a recommend( an honest one). One has the OPTION of making the payment of tithing a requirement of salvation by one's beliefs. 2
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The settlement is to cover my medical cost.So it is a reimbursement for funds you already paid out and is not an increase. Presumably you already paid tithing on your income and gave that tithed money to the doctors. So pay on your income from the house you will buy. But why ask us? It's between you the Lord and your Bishop.
Calm Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) The settlement is to cover my medical cost.Did you already pay the medical bills…and will likely be paying more, I suspect? It seems like it is not an increase, but simply a zero sum equation. If the money had been sent directly to the doctor and you never saw it, it would be essentially the same I am thinking. I don't see it as an increase. If there is concern, keep track of the rent and when it gets to the point where the amount is surpassing the bills, then pay tithing on that. I would see it much like I see a student loan, it is money given us for a specific purpose, not for income. The benefit we received would be in being able to pay higher tithing due to better income later after graduation. At least that is what I would do. I would be more cautious in my choices of paying tithing on either gross or net or somewhere in between because of being responsible for others with the income and not having the potential one has when one is younger. I would pray and follow the Spirit about it. We do choose to pay tithing before paying necessary bills, etc and we didn't feel the need to pray about which we should do, but I do not think it is required in all cases if any. We choose to do so because we can. If we get to the point where it is more difficult, we will seek out the Spirit about it. I don't think we get more 'tithing blessings' because we do, myself, save that we feel blessed to be able to participate in building up the Kingdom and having the money to begin with. Edited March 19, 2014 by calmoriah
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 This is wrong. The requirement is to be a full tithe payer (that could be zero). A Bishop will not ask for back anything (or they shouldn't), but will work with them to become current tithe payers and then if all else falls into place they get the recommend. Same thing goes for an excommunicated member, they do not pay tithing, and if they are re-baptized they are not asked to pay tithing back from when they were exed...Yep. You start today and repent for not paying. Pay for whatever time your Bishop says and then you are a "full" tithe payer. No one can turn time back to correct past mistakes
mfbukowski Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 What happened in the instances I know of (where the Bishop required the paying of past tithing owed), was that it was a family member (father, brother) who wanted to get a recommend to attend the temple wedding and were worthy except they hadn't paid tithing for at least a year. The Bishop agreed to giving them the recommend if they paid the past tithing owed. I really don't know what the church directive is regarding this and maybe there are some current or past Bishops who can address it. I tend to believe that it is at the discretion of the Bishop, but I don't really know.it is. You do not know all the circumstances-it might all be sitting in a savings account. It is the bishops job to figure it out. He is a judge in Israel
jaxenro Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 The settlement is to cover my medical cost.Did you pay the cost? If a reimbursement for expenses paid then no. As for rent I would assume the taxable portion (net profit after expenses) is the increase not the total rent amount
Tacenda Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) Pa Pa, the church doesn't need it, and I'll vouch to say, you and your family might, especially in the aspect of caring for your mom! But if you must, go by the D & C scripture on tithing. Edited March 19, 2014 by Tacenda
bluebell Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Pa Pa, the church doesn't need it, and I'll vouch to say, you and your family might, especially in the aspect of caring for your mom! But if you must, go by the D & C scripture on tithing. Isn't it interesting that God asks us to sacrifice for Him, not because He needs it, but because He knows how much we do. 2
phaedrus ut Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I'm going to reverse my position and agree with what others have written here. Technically speaking tithing is optional in the church and you aren't forced to pay tithing. Likewise, technically speaking, clothing is optional in the church. You can't be forced to follow either rule but if you don't it's going to be difficult to stay an active member. Phaedrus
MiserereNobis Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I'm going to reverse my position and agree with what others have written here. Technically speaking tithing is optional in the church and you aren't forced to pay tithing. Likewise, technically speaking, clothing is optional in the church. You can't be forced to follow either rule but if you don't it's going to be difficult to stay an active member. Phaedrus You should start your own break-off church: The Church of the Nude Non-tithing Payers. 2
pogi Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 (edited) I'm going to reverse my position and agree with what others have written here. Technically speaking tithing is optional in the church and you aren't forced to pay tithing. Likewise, technically speaking, clothing is optional in the church. You can't be forced to follow either rule but if you don't it's going to be difficult to stay an active member. Tithing is not enforced, but it is expected. Clothing, on the other hand, is both enforced and expected. You will not be kicked out for not paying tithing. You will be kicked out and arrested for not wearing clothing. Which one sounds optional and which one doesn't? Edited March 19, 2014 by pogi
Danzo Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 I'm going to reverse my position and agree with what others have written here. Technically speaking tithing is optional in the church and you aren't forced to pay tithing. Likewise, technically speaking, clothing is optional in the church. You can't be forced to follow either rule but if you don't it's going to be difficult to stay an active member. Phaedrus I am not going to disagree with you about the clothing, but if you ever had access to the tithing records you would know that there are many active (members who show up for most meetings) that are not full tithe payers.
thesometimesaint Posted March 19, 2014 Posted March 19, 2014 Except the IRS will garnish wages, impose leans, etc. So they actually do compel payment. So are you recommending theft? You've used government services, and yet you don't want to pay for them.
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