What's This Stuff About Getting My Own Planet?

[Stone holm]

Much of the changes that the church has recently made to curricula is to bring things more in line with scripture and to rein in on conjecture.  The statement about "our own planet" seems to be in line with this general trend.

 

Has the church taught about having our own planet(s)?  Sure.

Can it be reasonably extrapolated from scripture?  I guess so.

 

I think the underlying issue is that to state that we "get our own planet" is demeaning when compared to reality.  It is intentionally used in a pejorative sense by critics and when employed by church members it is far short of the majestic reality of the gospel.  My take is that the church is trying to change the language used rather than "soften" the doctrine.  The doctrine is that we can become like God and be joint-heirs with Christ.  That is majestic -- much more so than getting my own planet.

 

The problem with the way the response was written was it gives the reasonable impression that we won't be organizing planets, etc. although that isn't exactly what it says -- so its a somewhat misleadking truth, and I suspect it was intentionally misleading as it was probably directed at anti-Mormons, but it winds up misleading Mormons, and the anti-Mormons will just ignore it anyway.

[Scott Lloyd]

I confess that I'm simply not as smart or as earnest in my studies as you are, so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me: Do I get my own planet or not?

I've already given a response from scripture as I understand it. That, in my view, is the best I can do.  If that's not good enough for you, I'll guess you'll have to live with being dissatisfied with me.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I confess that I'm simply not as smart or as earnest in my studies as you are, so PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE tell me: Do I get my own planet or not?

You will have several.  You know the saying "Worlds with out end" and "Eternal Lives".

Edited December 17, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[mormonnewb]

Much of the changes that the church has recently made to curricula is to bring things more in line with scripture and to rein in on conjecture.  The statement about "our own planet" seems to be in line with this general trend.

 

Has the church taught about having our own planet(s)?  Sure.

Can it be reasonably extrapolated from scripture?  I guess so.

 

I think the underlying issue is that to state that we "get our own planet" is demeaning when compared to reality.  It is intentionally used in a pejorative sense by critics and when employed by church members it is far short of the majestic reality of the gospel.  My take is that the church is trying to change the language used rather than "soften" the doctrine.  The doctrine is that we can become like God and be joint-heirs with Christ.  That is majestic -- much more so than getting my own planet.

 

I'd like to argue with you on this one (it's kind of "my thing") but I'm quite satisfied with your answer.  It is logical, cogent and not unfairly critical of other's motives.  While these are attributes that could never be applied to any of my posts, I'm glad that other people employ them ... from time to time (oops, I did it again).  So thank you!  Of course, I would have been quite a bit more thankful had you posted this comment about two days ago as there are several other threads that could use my sarcasm and skepticism.

 

Temporarily satisfiedly yours,

[mormonnewb]

... I'll guess you'll have to live with being dissatisfied with me.

 

I wouldn't have it any other way, my Brother!

[mfbukowski]

If that's not good enough for you, I'll guess you'll have to live with being dissatisfied with me.

Join the club.  This guy is a real charmer.

[Lachoneus]

Heber C. Kimball seems to have believed that none of us will ever leave this earth until we are able to become "a father" of another earth.   

 

"You are talking about heaven and about earth, and about hell, &c.; but let me tell you, you are in hell now, and you have got to qualify yourselves here in hell to become subjects for heaven; and even when you have got into heaven, you will find it right here where you are on this earth. When we escape from this earth, we suppose we are going to heaven? Do you suppose you are going to the earth that Adam came from? that Eloheim came from? where Jehovah the Lord came from? No. When you have learned to become obedient to the Father that dwells upon this earth, to the Father and God of this earth, and obedient to the messengers He sends — when you have done all that, remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated to become a father of an earth yourselves. Not one soul of you ever will leave this earth, for if you go to hell, it is on this earth; and if you go to heaven, it is on this earth; and you will not find it anywhere else." (Heber C. Kimball, 1 Journal of Discourses 354-358, ¶7 (14 November 1852))

 

Brigham Young thought that those who are exalted would be allowed to create a new earth for their spirit children.

 

"After men have got their exaltation, and their crowns; have become Gods, even the sons of God; are made king of kings, and Lord of Lords; they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit, and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the organization of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth?" (Brigham Young, 6 Journal of Discourses 272-277, ¶ 13 (28August 1852))

[Sanpitch]

Hey, guys, I'm not active in the church so I'm rather an outsider but I do know some of church history and beliefs. Isn't it rather foolish to take the word of past apostles and even prophets such as Brigham Young when you are trying to determine your beliefs? The Journal of Discourses are not accepted as reliable now, they were just the statements of men. They were reliable when I was young and dad depended on them but times change. And other apostles have made all kinds of statements that are not accepted now; Bruce McConkie; and Mark Petersen come to mind and Mark's 1954 statement on race and skin color.

Better just find out what the present day church claims the truth is and let it go be cause you'll never find a definite answer otherwise. Find out from the spirit? That's why there are many multiply answers.

I think the JWs are cukie but if you ask them to back up their claims and beliefs they can do it from the bible. No matter whether they interpret accurately or not, they all agree because it comes from Bethel their headquarters.

[Stone holm]

Heber C. Kimball seems to have believed that none of us will ever leave this earth until we are able to become "a father" of another earth.   

 

"You are talking about heaven and about earth, and about hell, &c.; but let me tell you, you are in hell now, and you have got to qualify yourselves here in hell to become subjects for heaven; and even when you have got into heaven, you will find it right here where you are on this earth. When we escape from this earth, we suppose we are going to heaven? Do you suppose you are going to the earth that Adam came from? that Eloheim came from? where Jehovah the Lord came from? No. When you have learned to become obedient to the Father that dwells upon this earth, to the Father and God of this earth, and obedient to the messengers He sends — when you have done all that, remember you are not going to leave this earth. You will never leave it until you become qualified, and capable, and capacitated to become a father of an earth yourselves. Not one soul of you ever will leave this earth, for if you go to hell, it is on this earth; and if you go to heaven, it is on this earth; and you will not find it anywhere else." (Heber C. Kimball, 1 Journal of Discourses 354-358, ¶7 (14 November 1852))

 

Brigham Young thought that those who are exalted would be allowed to create a new earth for their spirit children.

 

"After men have got their exaltation, and their crowns; have become Gods, even the sons of God; are made king of kings, and Lord of Lords; they have the power then of propagating their species in spirit, and that is the first of their operations with regard to organizing a world. Power is then given to them to organize the elements, and then commence the organization of tabernacles. How can they do it? Have they to go to that earth?" (Brigham Young, 6 Journal of Discourses 272-277, ¶ 13 (28August 1852))

The Kimball quote is a bit confusing because he has sort of squashed differing planes of existence together . Yes, Hell, the temporary abode of disobedient spirits is here, yes spirit prison is here, and paradise is here, and our Celestial Kingdom will eventually be here. But, the other Kingdoms of Glory and Outer Darkness ... At least as far as I have ever understood... Are not here.

[JLHPROF]

Hello  Mormonewb and JLHPROF... 

Exaltation is indeed very much a part of our theology... and I don't understand JLHPROF's comment that exaltation is not emphasized very often today... or am I misunderstanding you? 

In our current Gospel Principles manual that was recently used in Priesthood and Relief Society, Chapter 47 (pages 275 - 280) is titled "Exaltation" and goes on to address the topic IMO quite completely, and gives numerous scriptural references... additionally there are subheadings describing the "Blessings of Exaltation," and, "Requirements for Exaltation."

 

And in the current P/RS lesson taught yesterday from Teachings of the Presidents... Lorenzo Snow... Chap 24 pages 280 and 28l, we read Snow's counsel: "We are dependent upon Jesus Christ, upon his coming into the world to open the way whereby we might secure peace , happiness, and exaltation."

And... "We understand fully that as Jesus Christ dwelt here in a body and that He received that body and now dwells in it glorified, that we are entitled to the same blessing, the same exaltation, and the same glory."

Additionally, pages 84 - 89, and 130-131 discuss the potential for exaltation... "because we have divinity within us, we can become like our Father in Heaven."  These may be quotes from Pres Snow, but they are being emphasized today.

 

Many times teachings and references to exaltation are included in various conference talks as part of the Plan of Salvation (Happiness) etc...  example: Elder Bednar's talk on Sat. afternoon speaks of the Plan of Happiness during May 2013 gen. conference... "The Father's plan enables His spirit sons and daughters to obtain physical bodies, to gain mortal experience, and to progress toward exaltation."

 

IMO we are talking/writing about our theology on exaltation quite often... 

 

GG

 

Hi GG,

 

You are kind of misunderstanding me.  When I said that exaltation isn't emphasized, what I perhaps should have said is that it really isn't defined or clarified as to what exaltation entails.

 

To use your quotes & Gospel Principles what we get told is:

 

1. "we can become like our Father in Heaven."  - meaning what exactly?

2. "to gain mortal experience, and to progress toward exaltation." - which is what?

3. "Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."  This ALMOST provides a defintion, but not much of one.

 

I'm sorry, but when I read the Gospel Principles manual on exaltation, I just feel like it does almost nothing to define exaltation.  It talks in platitudes and rhetoric.

So yes, exaltation is "emphasized" but it really isn't explained or discussed fully.  It's kind of glossed over.  The focus is on that we CAN achieve exaltation rather than what it actually is we are trying to achieve.

[Stone holm]

Hi GG,

 

You are kind of misunderstanding me.  When I said that exaltation isn't emphasized, what I perhaps should have said is that it really isn't defined or clarified as to what exaltation entails.

 

To use your quotes & Gospel Principles what we get told is:

 

1. "we can become like our Father in Heaven."  - meaning what exactly?

2. "to gain mortal experience, and to progress toward exaltation." - which is what?

3. "Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation."  This ALMOST provides a defintion, but not much of one.

 

I'm sorry, but when I read the Gospel Principles manual on exaltation, I just feel like it does almost nothing to define exaltation.  It talks in platitudes and rhetoric.

So yes, exaltation is "emphasized" but it really isn't explained or discussed fully.  It's kind of glossed over.  The focus is on that we CAN achieve exaltation rather than what it actually is we are trying to achieve.

Would you not understand from that, that is you are exalted that you would father spirit children and become a creator?

[JLHPROF]

Would you not understand from that, that is you are exalted that you would father spirit children and become a creator?

 

I think defining specific characteristics, blessings, and progression used to be more common and we have replaced it with generalities and warm fuzzies.

[Stone holm]

I think defining specific characteristics, blessings, and progression used to be more common and we have replaced it with generalities and warm fuzzies.

Can't disagree with that

[Calm]

I think defining specific characteristics, blessings, and progression used to be more common and we have replaced it with generalities and warm fuzzies.

Perhaps, all I know is that in comparison to most of my nonLDS friends over the years, our definitions of exaltation and what will happen to us in the next life are much more detailed and precise.  I don't see it as being "general" save in the sense that we are talking about standards that apply for all of mankind.

[Stone holm]

Perhaps, all I know is that in comparison to most of my nonLDS friends over the years, our definitions of exaltation and what will happen to us in the next life are much more detailed and precise.  I don't see it as being "general" save in the sense that we are talking about standards that apply for all of mankind.

But we are more doctrine driven than most Christian Faiths and to whom much is given much is expected, that applies not only to individuals, but to Churches.

[Bernard Gui]

I believe that God as any parent is trying to create those who will become the same. We are promised to be "joint heirs with Christ" and they we will have all that the Father has; why would we need more? What worries me is some think that one day they will be Elohiem's equal.

Who thinks that we will be Elohim's equal?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Who thinks that we will be Elohim's equal?

I have known many.

[Stargazer]

Hello  Mormonewb and JLHPROF... 

Exaltation is indeed very much a part of our theology... and I don't understand JLHPROF's comment that exaltation is not emphasized very often today... or am I misunderstanding you? 

 

I don't understand that comment either.

 

This past Sunday I taught the High Priests Group in my ward, and believe me I brought the subject up, with emphasis, in the course of the lesson.  It is emphasized a lot, in my observation.

 

And, of course GG mentioned lesson 24, which was what I was teaching from, and it did indeed bring it up.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Stargazer

[thesometimesaint]

I have known many.

 

Depends on how equal is defined. To be equal is not the same thing as being the same. IE 2+2=4 but 2 will always be 2 and 4 will always be 4. They are equal in only one sense of the word. In a Gospel sense. We will always be subject to God the Father, even if we become like him, a God.

[Bernard Gui]

I have known many.

I don't know anyone who believes that.  

 

From a doctrinal exposition of the First Presidency:

 

Those who have been born unto God through obedience to the gospel may by valiant devotion to righteousness obtain exaltation and even reach the status of godhood. Of such we read: “Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God” (D&C 76:58; compare D&C 132:20, and contrast D&C 132:17 in same section; see also D&C 132:37). Yet though they be gods, they are still subject to Jesus Christ as their Father in this exalted relationship; and so we read in the paragraph following the above quotation: “And they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s” (D&C 76:59).

 

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/04/the-father-and-the-son

[Bernard Gui]

I don't understand that comment either.

 

This past Sunday I taught the High Priests Group in my ward, and believe me I brought the subject up, with emphasis, in the course of the lesson.  It is emphasized a lot, in my observation.

 

And, of course GG mentioned lesson 24, which was what I was teaching from, and it did indeed bring it up.

 

Gospel Principles Chapter 47 "Exaltation"

 

The Plan for Our Progression

When we lived with our Heavenly Father, He explained a plan for our progression. We could become like Him, an exalted being. The plan required that we be separated from Him and come to earth. This separation was necessary to prove whether we would obey our Father’s commandments even though we were no longer in His presence. The plan provided that when earth life ended, we would be judged and rewarded according to the degree of our faith and obedience. From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was “caught up to the third heaven” (2 Corinthians 12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40–42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81). We also learn that there are three heavens or degrees within the celestial kingdom (see D&C 131:1).

 

Exaltation

• What is exaltation?

Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation. If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, to live with our Heavenly Father in eternal families. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give His children (see D&C 14:7).

Blessings of Exaltation

• What are some blessings that will be given to those who are exalted?

Our Heavenly Father is perfect, and He glories in the fact that it is possible for His children to become like Him. His work and glory is “to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man” (Moses 1:39). Those who receive exaltation in the celestial kingdom through faith in Jesus Christ will receive special blessings. The Lord has promised, “All things are theirs” (D&C 76:59). These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:

1. They will become gods (see D&C 132:20–23).

2. They will be united eternally with their righteous family members and will be able to have eternal increase.

3. They will receive a fulness of joy.

4. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have—all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge (see D&C 132:19–20). President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: “The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to His commandments. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 2:36; italics in original).

Edited December 18, 2013 by Bernard Gui

[Stone holm]

Who thinks that we will be Elohim's equal?

 

Not me, He is progressing just like us, that is like asking of a child whether the child will ever be as old as his/her father.  There is some debate, I believe, as to how Heavenly Father progresses -- but have never heard anyone, unless taken out of context, suggest that we will ever actually catch up with Him.

[Scott Lloyd]

Not me, He is progressing just like us, that is like asking of a child whether the child will ever be as old as his/her father.  There is some debate, I believe, as to how Heavenly Father progresses -- but have never heard anyone, unless taken out of context, suggest that we will ever actually catch up with Him.

The notion that "He is progressing just like us" strikes me as folk doctrine.

[Stone holm]

The notion that "He is progressing just like us" strikes me as folk doctrine.

Well possibly, lots of things are getting dismissed as folk doctrine these days. Course then we would have to toss aside the idea of eternal progression as well.

[pmccombs1]

Not me, He is progressing just like us, that is like asking of a child whether the child will ever be as old as his/her father.  There is some debate, I believe, as to how Heavenly Father progresses -- but have never heard anyone, unless taken out of context, suggest that we will ever actually catch up with Him.

 

In a letter addressed to Eugene England, Bruce R. McConkie once offered the following opinion:

 

"There are those who say that God is progressing in knowledge and is learning new truths.

"This is false -- utterly, totally, and completely. There is not one sliver of truth in it. It grows out of a wholly twisted and incorrect view of the King Follet Sermon and of what is meant by eternal progression.

"God progresses in the sense that his kingdoms increase and his dominions multiply -- not in the sense that he learns new truths and discovers new laws. God is not a student. He is not a laboratory technician. He is not postulating new theories on the basis of past experiences. He has indeed graduated to that state of exaltation that consists of knowing all things and having all power.