Afterlife expectations

[Stargazer]

In a now-closed thread, @jkwilliams wrote:

"If there is an afterlife, I’m not sure we can count on it conforming to our expectations."

To which I would have responded, "I'm certain that most of us cannot count on it conforming to our expectations, but for some of us it may broadly conform to some of our expectations, at least. The devil will be in the details, however."

My father was a self-described agnostic, and his outlook was that he hoped there was a god, and an afterlife, but that was far as he could go. On the other hand, I have a deep conviction that there is a God and an afterlife, and that in the end, no matter what we have done in this life (aside from sons of perdition), there will be a glorious end that we cannot now adequately comprehend.

But what about the intermediate place between death and our eventual mansion, the place called the Spirit World? What do you believe will be going on there?

If you utterly reject the idea of an afterlife, I guess you don't have a dog in this hunt, but perhaps you can nevertheless speculate as to how you might like it to be, if it turned out you were wrong.

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by Stargazer
format fix

[rongo]

The modern update to Duane Crowther's "Life Everlasting" contained NDE's from a variety of backgrounds, including non-LDS. It appears from these that the spirit world is what we expect it to be, and not necessarily an "ah ha" moment where people learn in a flash that the Mormons were right after all. We aren't the only ones performing missionary work there, and the same spirit (orientation, biases, tendencies, etc.) that we leave earth with is with us there. 

I think that atheists/agnostics won't necessarily think they were wrong when they get there. 

[Stargazer]

57 minutes ago, rongo said:

The modern update to Duane Crowther's "Life Everlasting"

Where did you find this? Oh, nevermind, I just found it. It's available in Kindle format, so there. 

I was wondering how much to trust Crowther, having heard somewhere that he had been excommunicated at some point, but a quick check shows this not to have been the case. Apparently he was serving in the Asunción Paraguay temple presidency back in 2013.

[rongo]

1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

Where did you find this? Oh, nevermind, I just found it. It's available in Kindle format, so there. 

I was wondering how much to trust Crowther, having heard somewhere that he had been excommunicated at some point, but a quick check shows this not to have been the case. Apparently he was serving in the Asunción Paraguay temple presidency back in 2013.

Those are like the rumors that Cleon Skousen or Hyrum Andrus had been excommunicated. They stem from people who don't like their writings (understatement), but they are solidly non-apostate. Elder McConkie got Deseret Book not to carry Andrus's books for years.

Life Everlasting is a fantastic book. The update is even better, and many of the NDE experiences are simply given without commentary. I found the non-LDS ones fascinating as well --- both in terms of commonalities, and in terms of people experiencing what they expect in the spirit world. 

[strappinglad]

The last book by Crowther that I read was " Prophecy Key to the Future "  ( I think that was the name, it has been many decades )

I guess it is time for another one 

 I can recommend a secular book about NDEs. " The Big Book of Near Death Experiences " by Atwater . It covers many aspects and talks about the several critics of the experience. 

[CV75]

I would think an atheist would expect the afterlife to be like sleep that slips into a coma that slips into brain death and a complete loss of consciousness, and that is a pleasant prospect but one that will never be realized since they won't be able to know it.

Edited May 8, 2021 by CV75

[InCognitus]

I'm looking forward to riding on the monorail that goes around the whole place in the afterlife:

 

[The Nehor]

I suspect the Spirit World may be more bleak than we sometimes imagine.

I admit I look forward with some anticipation for death so I can determine what parts of me exist one due to the fallen nature of this flesh and what I actually am. That may be a joyous realization or a hellish one. So, something to look forward to and/or fear.

[JAHS]

From what I understand we will be preaching and teaching the gospel and will continue to learn more of the Gospel. We will be doing other sorts of work related to salvation of the dead. We will know and associate with our family and friends (Genesis 25:8).
The night my grandmother died (before I was told she had died) I had a dream that she was among relatives who had also died and she was running around to each one of them and hugging them as they rejoiced in seeing her again. I can't imagine a heaven without the ability to in someway embrace our loved ones when we see them again.

The wicked in spirit prison, which is most likely a state of mind rather than a place, will be able to repent of sins and advance in the gospel towards some level of salvation. 
We will remember what happened in this life and what happened in the pre-earth life. President George Q Cannon said:
"You have heard of men who have been drowning or have fallen from a great height describe that in about a second or two every event of their lives passed before them like a panorama with the rapidity of lightning. This shows what power there is latent in the human mind, which, when quickened by the power of God, will make men and women recall not only that which pertains to this life, but our memories will stretch back to the life we had before we came here, with the associations we had with our Father and God and with those bright spirits that stand around His throne and with the righteous and holy ones." (Gospel Truth: Discourses and Writings of President George Q. Cannon, p. 60)

After the reverend Billy Graham passed away I came across a quote of his about death that I though was pretty good.
"Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don’t you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God."

[rpn]

For those who have not mastered their natural man/woman, the immediate afterlife is going to be really hard.   All the urges and desires, but no body to work with/through. 

[Chum]

21 minutes ago, rpn said:

For those who have not mastered their natural man/woman, the immediate afterlife is going to be really hard.   All the urges and desires, but no body to work with/through. 

No body means no sex hormones or associated neurotransmitters. In short, no libido.

[Chum]

1 hour ago, JAHS said:

After the reverend Billy Graham passed away I came across a quote of his about death that I though was pretty good.
"Someday you will read or hear that Billy Graham is dead. Don’t you believe a word of it. I shall be more alive than I am now. I will just have changed my address. I will have gone into the presence of God."

Billy Graham is one of the few things from my former evangelical life that I look back on with any fondness. I got to tour the Graham museum in NC a couple of years back and really enjoyed it.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Chum said:

No body means no sex hormones or associated neurotransmitters. In short, no libido.

Speaking as someone with significant physical issues, there are many urges that are a result of the body...craving food (my body thinks it is a sedative) vanishes for me when I get enough sleep, for example.  I have to remind myself to eat even. 
 

I suspect for me it will be anxiety that I will still need to figure out, because the drugs I take both suppress and make it worse depending on the day, but even that is likely mostly due to my restless legs disorder where tension in the body mimics anxiety. Lose the need to balance serotonin and dopamine, got to wonder how much anxiety will be left. 
 

Or maybe it will be boredom for awhile until I get back in the habit of enjoying my own thoughts for company. I use tech for ‘medicinal purposes’, to stop unhealthy thought loops or to keep me awake so I can have a semblance of a schedule. But I notice I get antsy these days when I have to wait and don’t have my phone to distract me. 
 

All I hope is it doesn’t work like phantom limbs. Some with RLS talk about wanting to cut off the offending limb...until they hear that doesn’t make the sensation go away (it is actually something in the brain and not the limb that makes the twitching, pain, or other sensation).  Hell would be having rls and not being able to move to relieve the discomfort, think of your body covered in itching and not being able to scratch. 
 

My image of the spirit world is deep quiet. No more Rls, no tinnitus, no too much or too little in stomach, no aches, no low back pain....just peace. 

Edited May 9, 2021 by Calm

[Chum]

12 minutes ago, Calm said:

My image of the spirit world is deep quiet. No more Rls, no tinnitus, no too much or too little in stomach, no aches, no low back pain....just peace. 

I've blessedly never had RLS.   I won't miss the rest when they go.

[let’s roll]

What we can look forward to in the afterlife is work, lots of work.

 In the Spirit World, ministering work among the daughters and sons of God, our brothers and sisters. 

If exalted, our work will be with our own spiritual posterity, God’s work, creating and parenting.

The same work that causes God to weep, that at times makes Him angry, and that requires perfect love.

For that reason, eternal life was defined in scripture, and is best understood, as knowing Deity.  We are best able to come to know them as we share in their work and ultimately do what they do.

[AtlanticMike]

6 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

The same work that causes God to weep, that at times makes Him angry, and that requires perfect love

Could you explain if possible?

[Calm]

7 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

What we can look forward to in the afterlife is work, lots of work.

As someone who is often stuck in bed with nothing but tech or books to pass time, that sounds like fun. 

[carbon dioxide]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

No body means no sex hormones or associated neurotransmitters. In short, no libido.

That depends how interconnected the spirit and body become.  The way I look at it, if I was able to get my spirit to jump out of my body for 5 minutes, would I be a different person?  Or would I be the same exact person with the same thoughts and tendencies?  I think I would be the same person. 

[JAHS]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

Billy Graham is one of the few things from my former evangelical life that I look back on with any fondness. I got to tour the Graham museum in NC a couple of years back and really enjoyed it.

My wife and I went to one of his crusade appearances at the Arco arena in Sacramento that seats almost 20,000 which was filled up and we had to sit outside on the grass and listen through speakers they had set up.

Edited May 9, 2021 by JAHS

[Calm]

48 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

That depends how interconnected the spirit and body become.  The way I look at it, if I was able to get my spirit to jump out of my body for 5 minutes, would I be a different person?  Or would I be the same exact person with the same thoughts and tendencies?  I think I would be the same person. 

Do you have any chronic physical illnesses?

I think I will feel like I do when I am waking up but still not aware of my body. Bliss. 

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, rpn said:

For those who have not mastered their natural man/woman, the immediate afterlife is going to be really hard.   All the urges and desires, but no body to work with/through. 

This was taught a lot when I was a kid but I suspect most of this came from “Embraced by the Light”. If bodily urges and desires that are not completely subdued torment us in the next life some form of monastic Buddhism might be the smart religion to pick.

[CV75]

I think whatever we find, some will try to tell us it is only confirmation bias...

 

[Kevin Christensen]

When Jedediah Grant fell from a horse, and temporarily went across, and returned to tell Heber C. Kimball about what he experienced, I think the most telling comment is this: "Why it was just as Brigham has told us many times."

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/teachings-brigham-young/chapter-38?lang=eng

There is a great deal of information in this manual that has no precident in the scriptures, not even from Alma's NDE in Alma 36, which has far more than the Bible.  

https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/jbms/vol2/iss1/2/

That is because Brigham fell ill at Winter Quarters and reported a vision of Joseph Smith in the afterlife, and apparently, quite a bite more, which occasionally came out in his funeral discourses.

In The Light Beyond, Raymond Moody reported that the most prominent of the Western Religions to accept the NDE accounts as previews of the other side is the Latter-day Saints.   Where he quotes "Mormon leaders" on the after life it turns out to be Brigham Young.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited May 10, 2021 by Kevin Christensen

[CA Steve]

I do not believe that as finite beings we have any clue what infinite life would entail. I suspect we are like toddlers arguing in the sandbox about the importance of a Tonka truck vs a Barbie doll.

[rpn]

On 5/9/2021 at 2:36 AM, The Nehor said:

This was taught a lot when I was a kid but I suspect most of this came from “Embraced by the Light”. If bodily urges and desires that are not completely subdued torment us in the next life some form of monastic Buddhism might be the smart religion to pick.

“that same spirit that doth possess at the time that ye go out of this life, that same spirit will have power to possess your body in that eternal world” (Alma 32:32)

More importantly, since your body won't be reunited with your spirit until resurrection, what possible alternative teaching could there be?   This is the time to prepare to meet God.