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Degrees Within the Celestial Kingdom


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Posted

One last idea from me (unless someone wishes to discuss): In D&C 131:1-4, where the singular “the other” is used to describe the two non-exalted heavens or degrees, it may refer to 1) two glorious designations where males and females are separate but equal in celestial glory but without anyone sealed to them as a spouse or descendant, and they serve accordingly (making gender still a practical eternal attribute regardless of inability to have an increase); 2) two glorious places where one is the base camp for the beasts living in the enjoyment of their eternal felicity (77:3) and the other for the sons and daughters of God that are to have no increase, regardless of how they relate one to another without being sealed as spouses.

Posted
On ‎3‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 9:23 AM, Ahab said:

He can not have an increase WHILE HE IS SINGLE.

To have an increase he must get married.

Well, then I won't have an increase since I am still single.  The Terrestrial Kingdom will be fine for me. 

Posted
30 minutes ago, Helaman said:

Well, then I won't have an increase since I am still single.  The Terrestrial Kingdom will be fine for me. 

Then I would not bother with the gospel. Now if you want lower degree Celestial I would.

Posted
38 minutes ago, Helaman said:

Well, then I won't have an increase since I am still single.  The Terrestrial Kingdom will be fine for me. 

You have 1000 year millennial period to find an eternal companion plus however long before that starts.
I think you have time.

Only those who reject marriage and any connected laws will find themselves without increase.  By their choice.

Posted
On 3/31/2017 at 4:44 PM, probablyHagoth7 said:

1. Precisely what does it mean to be "as the angels which are in heaven"?

2. And to whom does that outcome apply? Only people like those in the scenario he was asked to comment on? Everyone?

And how does one begin to explore/answer such questions without at least some element of initial speculation?

It applies to all those who don't make it to the house of elohim:

1 Cor 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

  • 1 month later...
Posted
On 3/30/2017 at 10:31 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

The church often teaches about the 3 degrees of glory. Within the highest glory, the Celestial Kingdom, there are also three subdivisions. It is taught that to achieve the highest level in the highest degree one must enter into celestial marriage. I further recall that the lowest level of the Celestial Kingdom will be home to angels and those who will be servants, ie those who did not enter the covenant of celestial marriage. I cannot seem to recall who resides in the middle degree of the Celestial Kingdom. There seems to be very little taught about the 3 degrees within the Celestial Kingdom but I'd love to hear ideas or see references about it.

D&C 131:1-4

In the celestial glory there are three heavens or degrees; And in order to obtain the highest, a man must enter into this order of the priesthood [meaning the new and everlasting covenant of marriage]; And if he does not, he cannot obtain it. He may enter into the other, but that is the end of his kingdom; he cannot have an increase.

From an article by common consent I read this...

From D&C 76: 92 96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one.

Also, from another thread where we have been discussing the teaching the Jackson County, Missouri (Independence) was the location of the Garden of Eden, it has been argued by some that despite a number of different prophets/apostles teaching that in various talks, conference, books, and Ensign articles, that because we don't have anything directly from Joseph (Even though Brigham cites Joseph) that it is an unreliable teaching. But this common consent article raises the same point about the 3 degrees within the Celestial Kingdom.

The church seems to hang on to the concept of three degrees within the Celestial Kingdom but there really isn't much known or taught about it, beyond the highest level. What do we know about the bottom 2 levels of the Celestial Kingdom?

https://bycommonconsent.com/2006/03/18/is-the-celestial-kingdom-divided-into-three-subdegrees/

Here's another idea, based on D&C 132:19:

The two non-exalted kingdoms are celestial beings, but one degree (the angels) are not married; there is one place for the males, and one place for the females, living "separately and singly" as "ministering servants" (D&C 132:116-7). The other degree, for the gods might be those who are married and yet preparing to receive their exaltation (verse 19, "they shall pass by the angels, and the gods [those who are sealed and preparing to receive their exaltation], which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things").

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 268). https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

Posted
3 hours ago, CV75 said:

Here's another idea, based on D&C 132:19:

The two non-exalted kingdoms are celestial beings, but one degree (the angels) are not married; there is one place for the males, and one place for the females, living "separately and singly" as "ministering servants" (D&C 132:116-7). The other degree, for the gods might be those who are married and yet preparing to receive their exaltation (verse 19, "they shall pass by the angels, and the gods [those who are sealed and preparing to receive their exaltation], which are set there, to their exaltation and glory in all things").

The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: “When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the gospel—you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil [died] before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave” (Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith [2007], 268). https://www.lds.org/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-47-exaltation?lang=eng

I kind of like this idea.  Quite a lot actually.  It's one I haven't heard.
The middle degree being those who have lived all the laws in mortality necessary for exaltation, but have not yet been "ordained" if you will.

It makes as much sense as the other 2 most popular theories.  In fact, it makes a little more sense.

Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

I kind of like this idea.  Quite a lot actually.  It's one I haven't heard.
The middle degree being those who have lived all the laws in mortality necessary for exaltation, but have not yet been "ordained" if you will.

It makes as much sense as the other 2 most popular theories.  In fact, it makes a little more sense.

I think verses 19 and 20 offer some additional insight if we use “then” as a sequential conjunction and “shall” to convey the future tense:

[First the couple] shall come forth in the first resurrection; and shall inherit thrones, kingdoms, principalities, and powers, dominions, all heights and depths—then …whatsoever my servant hath put upon them …shall be of full force when they are out of the world…   Then shall they be gods …then shall they be above all …Then shall they …have all power, and the angels are subject unto them.

I know that’s taking some liberties but such a reading conveys the kind of post-resurrection learning Joseph Smith may have been referring to.And if he means it is to take place before the resurrection, then these verses lay out the "preparatory redemption" in the spirit world which also reflects the post-resurrection kingdoms.

Edited by CV75
Posted

And then again, The three degrees in the celestial kingdom could be: a) the angles, or the pre-mortal spirits still dwelling in the presence of their Father(s); b) the gods, or the translated beings not yet resurrected but promised exaltation, such as all those living in the City of Zion; and c) exalted resurrected beings.

Posted
3 hours ago, CV75 said:

And then again, The three degrees in the celestial kingdom could be: a) the angles, or the pre-mortal spirits still dwelling in the presence of their Father(s); b) the gods, or the translated beings not yet resurrected but promised exaltation, such as all those living in the City of Zion; and c) exalted resurrected beings.

That one I have heard before.
I am less inclined towards the kingdoms being related to physical conditions as D&C 88 makes it clear that kingdoms are directly related to the laws obeyed.
There is a connection between obedience to law and physical condition, but if the requirement of entrance into the Celestial Kingdom is baptism, I don't see that pre-mortal spirits can be considered Celestial beings yet.

Posted
43 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That one I have heard before.
I am less inclined towards the kingdoms being related to physical conditions as D&C 88 makes it clear that kingdoms are directly related to the laws obeyed.
There is a connection between obedience to law and physical condition, but if the requirement of entrance into the Celestial Kingdom is baptism, I don't see that pre-mortal spirits can be considered Celestial beings yet.

Good point. But pre-mortal spirits who have chosen to follow Christ have kept that law which places them where they await transfer from the presence of God to the fallen world; they just haven't yet kept the laws of baptism and so forth that enable them to live in the presence of God as translated beings (gods) or exalted gods (in the resurrection). This assumes that the place where God lives and permits His children to be with Him, in any of their estates / conditions, is the celestial kingdom.

Posted
4 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Good point. But pre-mortal spirits who have chosen to follow Christ have kept that law which places them where they await transfer from the presence of God to the fallen world; they just haven't yet kept the laws of baptism and so forth that enable them to live in the presence of God as translated beings (gods) or exalted gods (in the resurrection). This assumes that the place where God lives and permits His children to be with Him, in any of their estates / conditions, is the celestial kingdom.

I think we are thinking of the kingdoms too much as locations.  (IE, the Celestial Kingdom is where God dwells etc).
While I think there is a location aspect (no space without kingdom etc) I think that the most clear indicator of kingdom is the laws kept.

Your ward may be consist of people around you who are at all different levels of progression.  But to be a member of the Elder's quorum in good standing you have to at least be ordained an Elder in the Melchizedek priesthood.
The spirit world contains people of all different progressions.  God is the father of our spirits so we dwelt with him, yet D&C 76:112 tells us that Telestial beings (not Terrestrial oddly enough) cannot enter into God's presence.

Based on what we know, I think there is more to kingdom than location.  I think there are those dwelling with God who are not yet Celestial, who aren't even born into mortality yet.  Perhaps they are considered Celestial until they fall to this telestial world.
 

Posted
1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I think we are thinking of the kingdoms too much as locations.  (IE, the Celestial Kingdom is where God dwells etc).
While I think there is a location aspect (no space without kingdom etc) I think that the most clear indicator of kingdom is the laws kept.

Your ward may be consist of people around you who are at all different levels of progression.  But to be a member of the Elder's quorum in good standing you have to at least be ordained an Elder in the Melchizedek priesthood.
The spirit world contains people of all different progressions.  God is the father of our spirits so we dwelt with him, yet D&C 76:112 tells us that Telestial beings (not Terrestrial oddly enough) cannot enter into God's presence.

Based on what we know, I think there is more to kingdom than location.  I think there are those dwelling with God who are not yet Celestial, who aren't even born into mortality yet.  Perhaps they are considered Celestial until they fall to this telestial world.

I too think "kingdom" can refer to both a place and an attribute or quality. When we say, "heaven on earth" we differentiate an actual heavenly place from the divine qualities we may enjoy while in this world--yet either must be experienced somewhere. At some point along the way, I think the place and the attribute correspond or line up (reconciliation, atonement). For example, I understand this physical world is to become the celestial place, or incorporated into a network or collection of celestial places.

But as you say, taking it figuratively, pre-mortal angels could be considered celestial until they fall. Likewise, translated beings (commonly described as terrestrial or paradisaical in nature) also considered celestial until they are resurrected, and the exalted of course. Perhaps in the pre-resurrected state they are quickened by to endure God's presence, as do men in the flesh (D&C 67:11; and verse 12 also refers to the carnal mind as well as the flesh).

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