The Fate Of Those That Die Before Accountability?

[Silhouette]

Well, as the Joseph F. Smith quote above (and Joseph Smith other places) teach, parents with children who die before adulthood will have the privilege of raising them in the Millennium. So this means there are absolutely spirits that are children. I have never seen any teaching to the effect that all spirits are adults. All spirits will eventually be adults.

Well what I mean is that they are adults in the spirit world, but come the millennium/resurrection those spirits will rejoin with their infant or child bodies again in order to be raised to adulthood in the millennium.

Please understand that I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand something that is a little bit different than what I've always thought. It's important to me to be able to understand completely about this because it directly affects me and the infant daughter that I lost. I wonder if she is an adult spirit now or an infant. I've always pictured her as an adult, perhaps helping to teach those in Spirit Prison. I liked to think of her teaching the Gospel to her Grandfather, who died in a different faith, and perhaps comforting and teaching her Uncle who took his own life.

If this is getting too deep for the open thread, please private me. Thanks much for your help.

[JLHPROF]

Well what I mean is that they are adults in the spirit world, but come the millennium/resurrection those spirits will rejoin with their infant or child bodies again in order to be raised to adulthood in the millennium.

Please understand that I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand something that is a little bit different than what I've always thought. It's important to me to be able to understand completely about this because it directly affects me and the infant daughter that I lost. I wonder if she is an adult spirit now or an infant. I've always pictured her as an adult, perhaps helping to teach those in Spirit Prison. I liked to think of her teaching the Gospel to her Grandfather, who died in a different faith, and perhaps comforting and teaching her Uncle who took his own life.

If this is getting too deep for the open thread, please private me. Thanks much for your help.

 

Not at all, and actually, now that I've reread your post (and this one) I stand corrected.  No argument necessary - I jumped the gun.

 

Upon review, you are absolutely correct that there are no child spirits according to our scripture and prophets.  The children who pass away and are raised by their parents in the Millennium are resurrected beings according to the prophets.

 

I think they will be resurrected as celestial bodies just as they lay them down.  They will then grow, receive baptism, endowment and marriage necessary for exaltation if they choose (or ministering servants if they'd rather for some crazy reason).

 

I think this answers your other question - why do they need baptism and endowments?  Because when they are resurrected they are still children.  Why don't we do work for them now?  Because they'll have the opportunity as they grow, just as we do.

Some will say "you can't receive your baptism/endowment" after being resurrected, but that is not entirely correct.  All ordinances pertaining to this earth have to be received during the mortal life of this earth - hence the 1000 year millennium to get them all done.  But there will be work for the dead, resurrected beings visiting the temples, and all kinds of fixes and corrections until the winding up scene ends.

 

I think you are probably correct - your daughter would be an adult spirit, perhaps serving as you think (she might even be your guardian angel).  But you will yet get to raise her, ensure she receives her baptism, endowment and marriage if she chooses that path, and hopefully see her receive her exaltation too.

 

Thanks for the correction!

Edited October 21, 2014 by JLHPROF

[Silhouette]

Thanks very much, I'm grateful to you for taking the time with me to clarify some things for me. This clarification makes sense to me, and I feel that I can rest easy about what is happening with my daughter now, and what will happen in the future. Sisterly hugs to you.

[JAHS]

I have always wondered about this principle.  If Satan has no influence over children, how is it that children can knowingly act contrary to their conscience?  Children understand right and wrong and knowingly choose wrong.  The scriptures state that man cannot act without being enticed by the one or the other, so who or what is it that entices (tempts) children to do wrong?  We say that children are innocent because they do not understand right and wrong.  That is not my experience.  They feel guilt when they knowingly do wrong, and have spiritual confirmations when doing good just like the rest of us.

 

The fact is that our tendency to choose between right and wrong is engrained in us long before the age of accountability.  This tendency does not generally change significantly after our formative years.  This makes me wonder than, how actively does Satan really tempt us?  He doesn't seem to need to, because most of the time we are battling our tendencies engrained from our formative years. 

 

You are right that kids probably do understand when they are doing something that is wrong long before they turn 8 yrs old simply by virtue of the fact that everyone is given the light of Christ, probably at birth. 

But I think a difference can be made in the sense that children probably cannot understand that choosing wrong is a sin until they are older and are taught that choosing wrong is a sin and is something that God does not want them to do. Mostly they only feel bad that they got caught doing something they were told not to do. They do not yet understand the long term spiritual consequences of committing sin.  Adam and Eve transgressed the command of God and realized they were doing something they were told not to do, but they did not yet understand the concept of sin.  

[JAHS]

Well what I mean is that they are adults in the spirit world, but come the millennium/resurrection those spirits will rejoin with their infant or child bodies again in order to be raised to adulthood in the millennium.

Please understand that I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand something that is a little bit different than what I've always thought. It's important to me to be able to understand completely about this because it directly affects me and the infant daughter that I lost. I wonder if she is an adult spirit now or an infant. I've always pictured her as an adult, perhaps helping to teach those in Spirit Prison. I liked to think of her teaching the Gospel to her Grandfather, who died in a different faith, and perhaps comforting and teaching her Uncle who took his own life.

If this is getting too deep for the open thread, please private me. Thanks much for your help.

 

 Elder Bruce R. McConkie said:

"A child is an adult spirit in a newly born body, a body capable of growing and maturing according to the providences of Him whose spirit children we all are."

Another General authority once said that the reason why little children wiggle around so much is because their adult spirits are so crowded in those little bodies.

 

My wife and I also lost an infant daughter many years ago. We also assume that her adult spirit is now involved in the preaching of the gospel which she now remembers from the pre-mortal life. On our Family Home evening chart we have pictures representing the different assignments each person has for a particular night. By our deceased daughters name is a picture of a lighthouse because we consider her our Celestial beacon. Her light shines for us, showing us the way. We know she is going to be there and we want to be with her there too some day. 

[toon]

I have a daughter that died after living only four hours. At the time, I was taught that she would automatically attain exaltation. This has sustained me through some mighty tough times, and I know that she is serving a mission on the other side of the veil. I see no reason to make a change in what I was taught at the time.

Incidentally, the man who taught me this principle is my cousin, who served as the Atlanta temple President, so I reckon he knew what he was talking about.

 

I am so sorry.  I cannot understand that kind of pain, other than to imagine how I might feel if something were to happen to one of my kids.  I've lived a very fortunate life where, at 50 years old, I still have not had to suffer the death of someone so close and so young.

 

I believe that the innocent (whether that is limited to children who have not yet come of age or include room for those who may have come of age but may still not yet be fully accountable) will be saved in the celestial kingdom.  And I believe that as something more than just an attempt to comfort those in grief. 

 

Again, I am truly sorry for your loss.

[Silhouette]

Elder Bruce R. McConkie said:

"A child is an adult spirit in a newly born body, a body capable of growing and maturing according to the providences of Him whose spirit children we all are."

Another General authority once said that the reason why little children wiggle around so much is because their adult spirits are so crowded in those little bodies.

My wife and I also lost an infant daughter many years ago. We also assume that her adult spirit is now involved in the preaching of the gospel which she now remembers from the pre-mortal life. On our Family Home evening chart we have pictures representing the different assignments each person has for a particular night. By our deceased daughters name is a picture of a lighthouse because we consider her our Celestial beacon. Her light shines for us, showing us the way. We know she is going to be there and we want to be with her there too some day.

Thank you so much for that quote. Your post was beautiful, and I'm sure your daughter is doing the work of The Lord even now.

[Silhouette]

I am so sorry. I cannot understand that kind of pain, other than to imagine how I might feel if something were to happen to one of my kids. I've lived a very fortunate life where, at 50 years old, I still have not had to suffer the death of someone so close and so young.

I believe that the innocent (whether that is limited to children who have not yet come of age or include room for those who may have come of age but may still not yet be fully accountable) will be saved in the celestial kingdom. And I believe that as something more than just an attempt to comfort those in grief.

Again, I am truly sorry for your loss.

Thank you very much, toon. It's a feeling I'd never wish on anyone, but the light of the Gospel sees me through.

[Storm Rider]

Silhouette,

 

I was taught the same thing for as long as I can remember.  The challenge I have with the concept is that it is difficult to believe that every mortal to die before the age of accountability will automatically have God-like character and be exalted.  It seems that there is a need to qualify beyond the metric of how many years one spends in mortality.  I have no problem with the sinlessness of infants or children, but the concept of opportunity versus a guarantee seems more consistent with eternal progression.

 

I know that mortality is only a small slice of the venues of progression, but the terminology of Brother England seems appealing.

 

trim, I would disagree with your understanding of exaltation - it is through Christ and his righteousness, his sacrifice that we are sanctified and given this gift of exaltation. He picks us up where we are at and takes us to Exaltation and we are made whole through him.  He does this for each child that dies before the age of accountability as well as for old men and women that have struggled all their lives to be his disciples. 

[mfbukowski]

Wouldn't be great JUST ONCE to have a thread like this where no one knows anything more than anyone else, where we all just said "I don't know and anyone who thinks he does is making it up?"

Sigh.

[mfbukowski]

Well what I mean is that they are adults in the spirit world, but come the millennium/resurrection those spirits will rejoin with their infant or child bodies again in order to be raised to adulthood in the millennium.

Please understand that I'm not trying to argue, I'm just trying to understand something that is a little bit different than what I've always thought. It's important to me to be able to understand completely about this because it directly affects me and the infant daughter that I lost. I wonder if she is an adult spirit now or an infant. I've always pictured her as an adult, perhaps helping to teach those in Spirit Prison. I liked to think of her teaching the Gospel to her Grandfather, who died in a different faith, and perhaps comforting and teaching her Uncle who took his own life.

If this is getting too deep for the open thread, please private me. Thanks much for your help.

Please understand that you are just as entitled to your personal revelations on these subjects as anyone else, and there are no experts who are know what they are talking about.

Follow what the spirit tells you and don't let anyone make you think their opinion is better than yours.

[Silhouette]

Please understand that you are just as entitled to your personal revelations on these subjects as anyone else, and there are no experts who are know what they are talking about.

Follow what the spirit tells you and don't let anyone make you think their opinion is better than yours.

Thank you. No one has really offered an opinion that I didn't ask for. I asked lots of questions in this thread because I wasn't positive what the Church teaches about this subject beyond what my cousin told me at the time my daughter died. I found what he said very comforting, and through discussion here I've found that he was pretty much correct, and that there is no need for me to have a faith crisis about the situation. It appears that things regarding my daughter are and will be what I always thought anyway. It's been a great comfort to me to have my understanding confirmed.

[Calm]

There are a number of articles about loss of a child and what happens on lds.org but this is probably one of the most  specific:

 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1977/04/the-salvation-of-little-children?lang=eng