Am I doing something wrong?

[BlueDreams]

On 4/8/2026 at 9:11 PM, Maestrophil said:

I am in the doghouse.  It is so bad that my wife aid she questions the entire foundation of our marriage!

What did I do? My sister in law suggested my brother might like a bottle of Utah brewed whiskey for his birthday while he is here for a couple of days from California.  So I went in halfsies with my sister and got him a bottle. 

When my wife came home from work and learned what I had done, she was so angry and hurt and said she felt betrayed.  I tried to explain that I don't have any intention of consuming at all and my family knows it. I felt that it would help my brother and sister and parents feel I accept them and see their wants above my personal morals.  I also don't see alcohol as inherently evil.  We have been asked not to consume it as members currently, but I don't think non-members who casually drink represent evil.  

Now to add one wrinkle - recently my wife and I decided we would pay for drink for our kids who have left the church when we take them out for dinner on their birthdays etc.  We used to say we would pay for the dinner, but the drinks were on them.  But we decided it felt weird and alienated our kids, so we agreed to start just letting them order what they would like and paying the entire bill.  So why is she ok with that, but now somehow angry with me to the point of telling me I am betraying our marriage and she feels like she needs to separate herself emotionally for her 'safety'? 

 

help

COMPLETELY guessing, since the only one who really knows is your wife. But I'm wondering if the kids buys drinks thing being fairly recent was a bigger concession than she cares to admit and this event triggered her hurt of having what she feels and values in life being compromised. Logically agreeing to something isn't the same as emotionally accepting it. 

 

 

21 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Yes, I agree - and I didn't intend this to be as much a discussion about my spouse as much as trying to get a feel for how people feel about the thought of buying alcohol and coffee etc for people not of our faith and who feels it is ok vs not ok? 

I suppose I should have just started it as a poll.  

Though I do appreciate the great advice and good intentions of the advice I received that is belong me be introspective so I approach my wife with the kindness and understanding she deserves. 

Quick reaction: I've never done it. Though to be fair,I have very few family members who drink that I'm close to. The only one currently is my brother and his wife. But they drink SUPER rarely after their heavy drinking early years led to an episode of alcohol poisoning. 

We don't usually buy each others' meals or drinks. Personally I probably would have had a food, no drink policy mainly because I'm cheap and never buy drinks period. It's water 98% of the time. The 2% I'd probably be willing to buy an equivalent alcoholic beverage for someone too. 

That said, I do have more emotional baggage around drinking. I think my bro has a healthy limit now, but I've seen a ton of the negative consequences from drinking and they've been pretty harmful in just the short term consequences, let alone the long term health ones. For me it's not at the level of ice cream and more like buying someone a gun (if guns were cheap...I know they're not). Or cigars I guess too. I get that all of those are very different. But I have similar emotional reactions to them in my body due to values I hold and they're Things I've heard being bought as high-end gifts to somebody. I don't buy these for other people and don't enjoy being around them. I can handle all of these in limited controlled circumstances...but don't purposely seek them out. With cigars, they can make me feel sick from the second hand smoke, so I really try to avoid that. But I don't like guns and don't want them in my house. If someone open carried, I'd insist they store their gun in their car while visiting. If someone loves a good wine, I'd say cool... I don't got that here. 

There are things that are me specific in health or beliefs that I have no problem with happening around me or buying someone something different. I'm a vegetarian....my husband and family regularly eat meat. I don't eat dairy often. They do. I'm a health freak. Most aren't or interpret that differently. On these, there are very few hard lines on things. Minus chuckarama. I will not eat that overpriced crap anymore and will bow out of family dinners that happen there. (No offense to those who like it).

But again these emotionally register differently. Not consistently so...not always logically so. But as I mentioned above, logic and emotional reactions are two very different beasts. I think the more consistent value is a live-let live attitude and a limit to accomodations and respect of differences. I can respect a different choice as long as it doesn't directly effect me and my sense of safety/health in some way. I don't expect people to be excessively accommodating to mine and my daughters dietary restraints on the regular. I get that they're extra and may be limiting to the group. I don't have a need to show respect for other's choices that I don't actually value. I show respect by not insisting they live by mine, not enabling theirs. And I engage and support the parts of their lives that I can readily participate in. 

But again. That's just me. I should also note, gift giving isn't my love language at all to begin with. So some of this is purely hypothetical. I also am fairly independent oriented. Social acquiescence doesn't come naturally for me and annoys me. So validating others in their life choices when I don't really value said choices equally feels weird. 

 

With luv, 

BD

[Calm]

I don’t think I would buy alcohol for someone out of the blue, even if I knew what I was doing, lol.

High probability if a nonmember family member or friend expressed a desire to buy it together as a gift for someone who did drink and I knew they would choose something of quality that would be enjoyed, I would…though the science being what it is now, I might ask if they had another option.  It does seem more personal to me than a gift card.  If a member family member suggested it, I would share my reluctance…that based on the the science, not the WoW because I don’t see others as under covenant.

I also dislike what I hear of the industry behind it, but that goes for many things I consume these days.

If Christ instructed his disciples to drink in the past, to use wine in sacraments and will be drinking wine with us in the great reunion when there are no doubt other options to choose, I don’t see it as inherently evil.

Matt 26

Quote

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.28 This is my blood of the[a] covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

 

I have been given some wine by one of my daughter’s teachers as a thank you, I thought that was very sweet…the gesture, not the wine, though it was blackberry so maybe; my husband regifted it to a friend who knew we were LDS and understood why it would have felt wrong just to throw it away…teachers do not make that much, it was a sacrifice on his part, if small, I wanted to respect it.

[MustardSeed]

I bought a coffee maker for when my kids visit. They appreciate not having to drive 20 min to the nearest town every morning. 
 

[BlueDreams]

28 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

I bought a coffee maker for when my kids visit. They appreciate not having to drive 20 min to the nearest town every morning. 
 

We did the same for my grandma when I was a kid. FWIW I definitely don't feel the same about coffee or tea as I do with drinking or smoking.

 

With luv, 

BD

[rpn]

Because you expanded what has been carefully calibrated discussion unilaterally in a way that hospitality before discussion with her didn't require.   She's afraid you've abandoned your faith and maybe wondering if you're going to start drinking too. 

[longview]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think this is purity culture gone nuts.

It is NOT just any worldly culture. This is a more important test of discipleship. It is NOT just about purity (although it is one of the important attributes for emulating God).

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Financing a lifestyle choice? It is a gift.

It is about messaging. To the receiver, it is love, esteem, gratitude, etc. To some, it might signal a willingness to compromise standards or integrity.

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

This seems to be more about signaling to everyone else . . .

Everyone needs to be aware of the negative aspects of alcohol consumption. Such as toxicity to the liver, addictions, mind alterations, etc. Some families are cursed by fractured relationships, financial ruin, violence, etc.

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

. . . as opposed to focusing on the relationship the gift is a part of. I mean don’t do it if you don’t want to but making not giving certain gifts to people a virtue is making virtue itself cheap and petty.

Why would sincere disciples want to send a double-minded message? What kind of message would they want to send to God?

Suppose you substitute pornagraphy or some lurid item, would you be comfortable?

3 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

3 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I bought a coffee maker for when my kids visit. They appreciate not having to drive 20 min to the nearest town every morning. 

We did the same for my grandma when I was a kid. FWIW I definitely don't feel the same about coffee or tea as I do with drinking or smoking.

Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

[The Nehor]

37 minutes ago, longview said:

It is NOT just any worldly culture. This is a more important test of discipleship. It is NOT just about purity (although it is one of the important attributes for emulating God).

I don’t think this has anything to do with discipleship. I don’t think any real form of purity is even possible for humans. Some elements of what we call purity or aspirational but the nature of our being makes it impossible to achieve.

37 minutes ago, longview said:

It is about messaging. To the receiver, it is love, esteem, gratitude, etc. To some, it might signal a willingness to compromise standards or integrity.

That seem like it is just worrying about what the neighbors will think with extra steps. Jesus wasn’t big on that kind of thinking.

37 minutes ago, longview said:

Everyone needs to be aware of the negative aspects of alcohol consumption. Such as toxicity to the liver, addictions, mind alterations, etc. Some families are cursed by fractured relationships, financial ruin, violence, etc.

Which is odd since the Word of Wisdom as written endorses beer drinking and doesn’t mention any of those reasons for the things it does disapprove of.

37 minutes ago, longview said:

Why would sincere disciples want to send a double-minded message? What kind of message would they want to send to God?

God doesn’t need us to do virtue signaling to figure out where someone stands.

37 minutes ago, longview said:

Suppose you substitute pornagraphy or some lurid item, would you be comfortable?

No, I would not give my child (even if they are an adult) pornography or a lurid item (I assume you mean sex toys here). That would be deeply weird. It would be weird with any family member really. 

37 minutes ago, longview said:

Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

I don’t know of any scripture that makes the “hot drinks” bit less important than the “strong drink” bit. I know that culturally they are treated differently on separate tiers but I have no reason to believe God makes any such distinction.

[MustardSeed]

57 minutes ago, longview said:

But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

A real gift is knowing what the other wants and offering when it’s not my cup of tea. imo  

[BlueDreams]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

 

Ehh. Grandma wants coffee in the morning with her breakfast when she visits for a long stay. A used coffee machine and some basic coffee isn't what I'd call a gift and it isn't even rocking the bank much. It's similar for me to when my husband buys more meat than we usually get when his sister and/or mom visit for longer stays. Or when we bought completely different food for his brother's family that neither of us would want to eat because it was too sweet/processed.

Groceries ain't gifts. I'm not going to police what people think is a meal. Besides, I've been a health freak long enough to know that heavily disrupting people's diets can be very miserable for someone. I like my guests to be comfortable. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

Edited April 12 by BlueDreams

[Calm]

You don’t want Grandma to be going through caffeine withdrawal*** while she is visiting.  Not a good way to entertain her.

And it’s less financing than Grandma taking the car to Starbucks daily or multiple times daily.

***not that big of a deal for most, though could get severe headaches the second day or so, and wouldn’t last that long, but bad enough to dampen the fun.

Edited April 12 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, longview said:

would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc.

Would you “finance” sugar consumption since that can be more detrimental than coffee?

[BlueDreams]

41 minutes ago, Calm said:

Would you “finance” sugar consumption since that can be more detrimental than coffee?

You Can also make a strong case that that's against the word of wisdom too.

[MustardSeed]

I wonder if he’d finance health care for someone who is overweight. 

[Rain]

7 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I bought a coffee maker for when my kids visit. They appreciate not having to drive 20 min to the nearest town every morning. 
 

I spent last Tuesday with an Afghan woman learning to make Afghan food.  She had an electric coffee carafe that she used several times for making the meal that had nothing to do with coffee.  After seeing how quickly she was getting the water hot, I was thinking of getting one of those for myself!  I've occasionally thought of getting a tea kettle for the same reason, but this was even better! I know that's not what you were talking about, but saying something about not having to drive 20 min reminded me of how convenient coffee and tea items can be!

[Calm]

I have used an electric tea kettle before, just a small one.  It came in handy.

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, BlueDreams said:

You Can also make a strong case that that's against the word of wisdom too.

How? I wouldn’t think you can do it from the text? Admittedly the text of D&C 89 and the Word of Wisdom as it is practiced don’t share much in common and there probably is an argument that the Word of Wisdom as practiced suggests it would be against a lot of sugar consumption. I have a private suspicion that some of the craziness in the US is due to our lax food regulations giving us a pretty horrific amount of sugar. There’s that one rat study where they fed the rats the equivalent of a North American diet in terms of sugar and fat and they got really stupid and confused.

Edited April 12 by The Nehor

[longview]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

It is NOT just any worldly culture. This is a more important test of discipleship. It is NOT just about purity (although it is one of the important attributes for emulating God).

I don’t think this has anything to do with discipleship. I don’t think any real form of purity is even possible for humans. Some elements of what we call purity or aspirational but the nature of our being makes it impossible to achieve.

This is NOT about perfection. This mortal fallen world is intended to be a challenge and a test and a learning experience. We can strive to be pure WITHOUT having to be perfectly pure. The Plan of Happiness is marvelous. Discipleship is WORTH striving for! We can make choices about important issues (about everything). Some deserve careful consideration.

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

It is about messaging. To the receiver, it is love, esteem, gratitude, etc. To some, it might signal a willingness to compromise standards or integrity.

That seem like it is just worrying about what the neighbors will think with extra steps. Jesus wasn’t big on that kind of thinking.

Signaling to God is more important than appeasing carnal flesh.

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

Everyone needs to be aware of the negative aspects of alcohol consumption. Such as toxicity to the liver, addictions, mind alterations, etc. Some families are cursed by fractured relationships, financial ruin, violence, etc.

Which is odd since the Word of Wisdom as written endorses beer drinking and doesn’t mention any of those reasons for the things it does disapprove of.

Yet some do get into grief with over consumption of beer. Trust in God's counsels and His saving commands.

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

Why would sincere disciples want to send a double-minded message? What kind of message would they want to send to God?

God doesn’t need us to do virtue signaling to figure out where someone stands.

Neither does God want us to do "play acting" but to truly engage in the challenges of mortal life. It is a tremendous blessing to participate in the Second Estate.

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

Suppose you substitute pornagraphy or some lurid item, would you be comfortable?

No, I would not give my child (even if they are an adult) pornography or a lurid item (I assume you mean sex toys here). That would be deeply weird. It would be weird with any family member really. 

This is why we gauge our choices. Some are off limits. Some require sincere and thoughtful considerations. Some are in the gray zone.

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

20 hours ago, longview said:

Coffee consumption is NOT as drastic as alcohol. I suppose circumstances can vary. I would NOT "finance" coffee or smoking or drugs, etc. But rather, something that both the recipient and giver enjoy or appreciate.

I don’t know of any scripture that makes the “hot drinks” bit less important than the “strong drink” bit. I know that culturally they are treated differently on separate tiers but I have no reason to believe God makes any such distinction.

God sees the heart and the mind AND knows MORE than you know about yourself.

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have a private suspicion that some of the craziness in the US is due to our lax food regulations giving us a pretty horrific amount of sugar. There’s that one rat study where they fed the rats the equivalent of a North American diet in terms of sugar and fat and they got really stupid and confused.

GOOO-O-O-O-O-O MAHA ! ! ! (Make America Healthy Again)

[Calm]

1 hour ago, longview said:

Make America Healthy Again

If only they put as much energy into the science and being accurate as they do the propaganda 

Edited April 12 by Calm

[BlueDreams]

16 hours ago, The Nehor said:

How? I wouldn’t think you can do it from the text? Admittedly the text of D&C 89 and the Word of Wisdom as it is practiced don’t share much in common and there probably is an argument that the Word of Wisdom as practiced suggests it would be against a lot of sugar consumption. I have a private suspicion that some of the craziness in the US is due to our lax food regulations giving us a pretty horrific amount of sugar. There’s that one rat study where they fed the rats the equivalent of a North American diet in terms of sugar and fat and they got really stupid and confused.

I'm talking about the text not the practice when I say this. It should be noted much of the SAD diet especially isn't living up to those standards period. It's heavily processed, pulled early from all over the world, and often super out of season (the overall vibes of the wow is definitely more fresh and whole foods in their proper seasons), and super meat heavy (I'm not going to debate that comma placement). It also is marketed more for the few food we heavily subsidize to support big ag (see the warnings of why the WOW is given), and is extremely limited in food diversity (again a general sense focuses on a brought range of herbs and grains and plants). And the blessing tied to it as you point out includes being able to walk and not be weary/run and not faint, and have treasures of knowledge even hidden treasures.  Excessive sugar consumption fails on so many of these things.

....not that I never eat it. We all have our points of hypocrisy or failure in living up to wisdom. 😋

 

With luv,

BD 

 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, longview said:

This is NOT about perfection. This mortal fallen world is intended to be a challenge and a test and a learning experience. We can strive to be pure WITHOUT having to be perfectly pure. The Plan of Happiness is marvelous. Discipleship is WORTH striving for! We can make choices about important issues (about everything). Some deserve careful consideration.

It is about becoming perfect. Just that we won’t get that close to it. I do wonder if people in the past had an elevated view of virtue to the point that they throught they were closer to perfections than they were.

3 hours ago, longview said:

Signaling to God is more important than appeasing carnal flesh.

God doesn’t need signals. He knows what we want and what our motivations are. Also in situations like the one described I wonder if this is some kind of sacrifice for God or just doing what you want to do anyways and thinking God is pleased at it for some reason and that ‘waving the flag’ in itself is a virtue.

3 hours ago, longview said:

Yet some do get into grief with over consumption of beer. Trust in God's counsels and His saving commands.

The Word of Wisdom as written is okay with beer. I agree that beer can get people into trouble. Lots of things get people into trouble.

3 hours ago, longview said:

Neither does God want us to do "play acting" but to truly engage in the challenges of mortal life. It is a tremendous blessing to participate in the Second Estate.

Hooray…….

3 hours ago, longview said:

This is why we gauge our choices. Some are off limits. Some require sincere and thoughtful considerations. Some are in the gray zone.

No problem here.

3 hours ago, longview said:

God sees the heart and the mind AND knows MORE than you know about yourself.

I hear this a lot but experience hasn’t borne this out in my experience.

3 hours ago, longview said:

GOOO-O-O-O-O-O MAHA ! ! ! (Make America Healthy Again)

Ugh, no. MAHA is gross. I prefer my medical and public health initiatives to be grounded in experimentation and understanding and not pseudoscience.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, BlueDreams said:

I'm talking about the text not the practice when I say this. It should be noted much of the SAD diet especially isn't living up to those standards period. It's heavily processed, pulled early from all over the world, and often super out of season (the overall vibes of the wow is definitely more fresh and whole foods in their proper seasons), and super meat heavy (I'm not going to debate that comma placement). It also is marketed more for the few food we heavily subsidize to support big ag (see the warnings of why the WOW is given), and is extremely limited in food diversity (again a general sense focuses on a brought range of herbs and grains and plants). And the blessing tied to it as you point out includes being able to walk and not be weary/run and not faint, and have treasures of knowledge even hidden treasures.  Excessive sugar consumption fails on so many of these things.

....not that I never eat it. We all have our points of hypocrisy or failure in living up to wisdom. 😋

 

With luv,

BD 

 

Sugat and caffeine soothe my ADHD but it is probably not worth it. Then again, almost everything that ameliorates the symptoms has drawbacks.

[BlueDreams]

26 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Sugat and caffeine soothe my ADHD but it is probably not worth it. Then again, almost everything that ameliorates the symptoms has drawbacks.

Caffeine is my lifesaver when I have a migraine. Ironically sugar cancels that out for me, so I have maté cocido with a Tylenol when that happens. Also have it on really bad nights of sleep. Like any medicinal plant/substance, I try to use it moderately. Partially because I don't want the dependency. Mainly because I know the effect shrinks if my body gets used to it and can end up backfiring. 

 

But nothing has been more effective in dropping my migraines than getting rid of cheese from my regular diet (I can have it a few times a year). I curse the day that i figured that one out. Even if I feel better. 

 

With luv, 

BD 

Edited April 13 by BlueDreams

[Calm]

43 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Also in situations like the one described I wonder if this is some kind of sacrifice for God or just doing what you want to do anyways and thinking God is pleased at it for some reason and that ‘waving the flag’ in itself is a virtue.

Something we should be constantly asking ourselves given what is said about tradition in the scriptures (just because something is traditional doesn’t mean it’s seen as good by God).

Edited April 13 by Calm

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

ut nothing has been more effective in dropping my migraines than getting rid of cheese from my regular diet (I can have it a few times a year). I curse the day that i figured that one out. Even if I feel better. 

I really miss mushrooms, onions, garlic, chocolate, and wheat (can manage sourdough bread, it’s the sugars, not the gluten).  But so much less problems with stomach and gut that I am not the least bit tempted….just in mourning.  Thank goodness green onions work okay, but hing does not satisfy the garlic craving.  Besides waffles, I can do without wheat as corn and rice flour work great.

But mushrooms 😭

I wish there was some way to remove pressure changes from my life like food.

[Maestrophil]

On 4/10/2026 at 11:27 PM, MustardSeed said:

I purchase ice cream for my husband but I don’t eat it because it’s unhealthy.  It feels fine to me to do so.  

Great comparison