General Conference Thoughts

[juliann]

24 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Sometimes I read reactions to particular talks and am dumbfounded that a given talk got such a negative reaction, when I felt uplifted/informed/inspired by it.

This is what I take from this phenomenon: if you get offended at what you hear, perhaps you need to reconsider what was said, and look at it from a different angle. Because some people, perhaps many, will have the opposite reaction from you. And perhaps it's a matter of if the shoe fits. If the shoe doesn't fit, disregard what was said. If it doesn't apply, then pass it by.

I seem to recall that the Savior said that offence was in the mind of the offended. And I would add, especially when the person who spoke did not intend to offend.

Oh, geez....condescend much? Why don't you follow your own advice and if someone else's opinion doesn't apply, pass it by.

[Maestrophil]

I missed the make up of this choir in the Saturday afternoon session.  Who are these people?  I am so excited to see beards and variet of hair, color, ages, etc.  

[Stargazer]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Why are all these licked cupcakes getting so offended?

???

 

[The Nehor]

2 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

I missed the make up of this choir in the Saturday afternoon session.  Who are these people?  I am so excited to see beards and variet of hair, color, ages, etc.  

I assume they are all witches.

[bluebell]

35 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I seem to recall that the Savior said that offence was in the mind of the offended. And I would add, especially when the person who spoke did not intend to offend.

Often it is not offense but hurt and pain, that people are feeling.

[Okrahomer]

5 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

I missed the make up of this choir in the Saturday afternoon session.  Who are these people?  I am so excited to see beards and variet of hair, color, ages, etc.  

They are a multicultural choir made up of members of the Church from Northern Utah.

[Maestrophil]

6 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

They are a multicultural choir made up of members of the Church from Northern Utah.

Did they just put out an audition call?  Haven’t seen such variety ever in conference. Love it. 

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I assume they are all witches.

 

6 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

They are a multicultural choir made up of members of the Church from Northern Utah.

[Stargazer]

7 minutes ago, juliann said:

Oh, geez....condescend much? Why don't you follow your own advice and if someone else's opinion doesn't apply, pass it by.

Interesting reaction! You sound offended, Juliann. I didn't mean to cause offense. I apologize.

I know you and I have disagreed about a number of things over the years, but really? I was referring to public talks (especially in General Conference) that are  given by those who are not seeking to offend, but for some reason give offense. What about what I wrote did you feel was condescending?

Definition: Condescension -> "an attitude of patronizing superiority; disdain"

I wasn't trying to be disdainful, nor trying to parade my superiority (such as it is). At least I don't think I was.

Perhaps you felt my tone was condescending. It's possible. Again, I apologize for any offense I caused.

 

[The Nehor]

Well, after that last talk:

 

[MustardSeed]

Alan Philips was wonderful.  Great speaker- the amazing accent only made it even better 

[Peacefully]

Just now, MustardSeed said:

Alan Philips was wonderful.  Great speaker- the amazing accent only made it even better 

Definitely “posh”  

[Stargazer]

10 minutes ago, bluebell said:

Often it is not offense but hurt and pain, that people are feeling.

I've been there.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Alan Philips was wonderful.  Great speaker- the amazing accent only made it even better 

His talk was so good!

[MustardSeed]

Just now, Stargazer said:

I've been there.

Me too.  If someone is hurt by a talk, they are hurt.  Important to consider that hurt is not intended, but hurt hurts regardless.  

[ksfisher]

22 minutes ago, Maestrophil said:

Did they just put out an audition call?

They did. 

[The Nehor]

So did that choir just legalize facial hair?

[let’s roll]

Having just retuned with my wife from a mission in Latin American, I offer a heartfelt amen to Elder Rasband’s talk.  I’ve missed interacting with all of you and look forward to re-engaging.

[Okrahomer]

4 minutes ago, let’s roll said:

Having just retuned with my wife from a mission in Latin American, I offer a heartfelt amen to Elder Rasband’s talk.  I’ve missed interacting with all of you and look forward to re-engaging.

Welcome home!  I hope you’ll share some of your experiences with us.

[Stargazer]

5 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

Me too.  If someone is hurt by a talk, they are hurt.  Important to consider that hurt is not intended, but hurt hurts regardless.  

I was once hurt in a priesthood meeting. The teacher brought up a principle that I suddenly realized I had been guilty of not following. It wasn't a major thing in the sense of talking to the bishop, but I really felt guilty. I corrected my behavior, but foolishly, to avoid being hurt again, I avoided priesthood meeting for a few months. 

At another time I observed a very sad thing, again in a priesthood meeting. We had a brother who was had served in the Vietnam war, though not in any combat role. His job had consisted of loading dead soldiers' coffins onto airplanes to be returned to the States, a very safe job, but I imagine that it plagued him, and he was preternaturally sensitive to any mention of the war. Not everyone knew this. One time the teacher mentioned the Vietnam war in the context of some principle in the lesson, and this brother jumped up and furiously stormed out of the meeting. Everyone was stunned watching this. He never ever attended priesthood again, as far as I remember. Ironically, the teacher was also a Vietnam vet, having fought in the infantry. Some others present were also veterans of that war, including another brother who had been seriously wounded by a mine in Vietnam and was still suffering from lingering issues over his wounds. I gather that the brother who ran out was both hurt and offended. It seems certain that he needed some kind of counseling.

A granddaughter of mine died at 3 months of SIDS. I carried her dead body from her mother's arms to the coroner. Should I get hurt or offended anytime someone talks about SIDS? I know people who get that way, who are triggered by anything that reminds them of that negative experience, no matter the context sometimes. 

In all of this I am reminded of this message:

 

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I was once hurt in a priesthood meeting. The teacher brought up a principle that I suddenly realized I had been guilty of not following.

Feeling hurt because you feel guilty is dramatically different than feeling hurt because you have been misunderstood, mistreated, or even abused in the past and what is being said is connected to those experiences. 

[MustardSeed]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Should I get hurt or offended anytime someone talks about SIDS?

Since you’re asking, my answer is if you get hurt you get hurt. Offense is something different IMO.  
 

I feel hurt that I only heard one woman speak today. Should I feel hurt? Should I be offended? Does it matter? 
 

I think if someone is hurt or offended by a story that someone shares and that is their right to feel hurt or offended. It doesn’t necessarily mean that anyone needs to change anything.
 

Yesterday I went to acmovie theater in Portland for a Premier of Common Ground (highly recommend) - it was being shown in the college district so there are a lot of young people in the area. As I walked into the movie theater the couple in front of me were 20 some things and one of them sneezed. I said bless you. They both glared at me and one said “No.” 

Should she have been offended by my “bless you?”  Should I have been offended by the response? I was surprised but not offended.  I was in Portland after all.  But I’m sure if I had all the info it would make sense (I mean I had enough info, the sneezer looked trans so they felt I was forcing God on them.  Ok. ) but I’m not going to stop saying bless you.  I won’t say it again to them.  
 

I digress.  But I’m not gonna tell someone they should or shouldn’t feel something,  I’m too much of a therapist to do that 🥸

 

[Stargazer]

Just now, Calm said:

Feeling hurt because you feel guilty is dramatically different than feeling hurt because you have been misunderstood, mistreated, or even abused in the past and what is being said is connected to those experiences. 

Yes. And I've felt hurt from those kinds of things, too. Some of them I am still sensitive about. A couple of these things have been caused by people on this forum, in fact. I fear to involve myself in some discussions for just that reason, but this poor fool sometimes can't stay out of it.

But these things are almost unavoidable. You can't go anywhere without risking them popping up unexpectedly. For the sake of one's peace of mind, one must just learn to bear with the hurt, and learn not to overreact. Sometimes that's the only way. Tears for Fears once recorded the song "Everybody Wants to Rule the World", and though it wasn't what they meant, exactly, trying to rule the world to prevent ever being hurt again is very impractical.

 

 

[CV75]

4 hours ago, Stargazer said:

As part of an elders quorum presidency I am paying close attention to the talks, since we will be selecting talks as lesson topics for the next six months. I'm pretty excited by three of the talks today so far (Sat. Morn). Sis. Amy Wright, Elder Hugo Montoya (I think that's him, missed the name display), and Pres. Oaks. 

President Oaks' talk was especially valuable, I thought, due to being a very complete and thorough overview of the Plan of Salvation. We have a brother in our quorum who after 15 years absence has just recently come back on the radar with the gospel, and he said he would be watching conference. I know he has forgotten a lot, and Pres. Oaks' talk will be very valuable for him.

My notes on Pres. Oaks: A complete overview of the Plan of Salvation.
My thoughts on what he said: It is not enough to know something. The gospel of Jesus Christ requires us to do something! It is not enough to go through the motions, it is a plan that requires us to become like Jesus Christ. We’re not trying to get our celestial passports stamped with the requisite stamps, but becoming what God wants us to become. Salvation is an individual matter, but exaltation is a family matter. No one will be forced into a sealing relationship against their will.

I thought about his remarks in terms of stewardship. The celestial stewardship is the business of creating life (in addition to maintaining and using life), terrestrial stewardship is the business of maintaining life (in addition to using it), telestial stewardship is limited to the business of using life. Each kingdom's limits and opportunities are ours, according to our agency's alignment with God's ideal. The celestial scope (especially exaltation) is perfectly aligned, terrestrial somewhat, and telestial less so.

He used the word "comfortable," which tends to eliminate striving for improvement at that point.

Adam and Eve lived the terrestrial law in Eden; after the Fall their wayward posterity lived the telestial law, and in the resurrection Adam and Eve are exalted.

I think it is very interesting that President Oaks framed his remarks in this fashion, as if to say, "If you don't want to be part of pursuing the ideal, you can go someplace else more comfortable, but respect our mission. God still loves you and prepares a place for you." -- as if the Church is going to spend less time and energy addressing the demands of detractors and more wherewithal proactively building Zion, as Elder Bednar pointed out in terms of those in the "last wagon".

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

And I've felt hurt from those kinds of things, too.

Then why use the guilt example which implies there is something the person who feels hurt has done wrong, something besides their mere existence?