Bible banned in Davis school libraries. Book of Mormon next?

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, MiserereNobis said:

I've taught in the honors/AP English program for 15 years now (sometimes AP English Language, sometimes honors sophomores). We've had required summer reading that included Greek mythology and passages from the Bible. Here's an excerpt from my instruction page for this summer for honors sophomores:

Quote

The stories from the Bible are among the most alluded to in western literature. A lack of knowledge of these stories will severely hamper your understanding and ability to analyze. Accordingly, the AP English program has decided to require excerpts from the Bible for summer reading. Please understand that this has nothing to do with religion; these readings are for literary purposes only so that you do not miss important references. Just as our requirement to read mythology has nothing to do with the Greek or Roman religions, likewise our requirement to read the Bible has nothing to do with the Jewish and Christian religions. Focus on the stories – feel free to skim over parts that do not have relevance to the narration.

We ask that you use the King James Version (KJV) of the Bible as the language of this translation is most commonly used for allusions and is also highly poetic. Copies of the Bible are readily available both in print and online. There will be a test the second week of the fall semester.

Old Testament: Exodus 1-21, 32-34. Genesis 6-9, 11

New Testament: Matthew (all)

Like, a million times, this.

You don't have to believe in the Bible, but if you refuse to ever read or even familiarize yourself with the book you are going to render wide swaths of classical literature devoid of much of their intended meaning.

 

[Tacenda]

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Is there a lot of book banning happening in Utah right now? I'm only aware of it happening at the moment in Florida, but fully admit I don't know much about what is happening in Utah.

If there is not it seems an odd way to respond to what is happening in Florida. It's putting a target on Utah for being "non christian" more than showing that book banning is not good.  

Now if a lot is being done in Utah a better response would be to try to ban the BoM or both at once. 

I still watch local news. It was interesting that there wasn't a huge uproar locally about this, which was so nice to see.  Tells me people don't like books banned, at least the huge swath that has been mentioned. Here's an article of it happening in Alpine School District, near Provo. https://bookshop.org/lists/52-books-banned-from-alpine-school-district-ut#:~:text=Alpine School District in Utah,for possible removal this fall.

Looks to me like a few of these books banned could have saved some lives.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Tacenda

[Pyreaux]

Stating that heads come off would not be found in any history book? Or classic Greek myths?

Heads coming off in the Book of Mormon is not as graphic as... say, heads coming off in The Three Musketeers. Is the Three Musketeers banned?

Edited June 3, 2023 by Pyreaux

[mfbukowski]

Never mind

Edited June 3, 2023 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

It’s mostly just a few parents that are getting all the books banned. Like, three parents.

https://kutv.com/news/crisis-in-the-classroom/small-group-of-parents-utilizing-new-law-to-ban-books-in-utah-school-libraries

Yep, and a lot of the people screaming at school board meetings don’t live in the district they are complaining about and/or don’t have kids in the school system.

[CV75]

Ban them all to Helper!

[california boy]

On 6/3/2023 at 6:34 AM, pogi said:

There is a difference between banning books because you disagree with the message and insuring that only age appropriate materials are available and accessible.   I don’t want 50 shades of grey available at my kids schools for example.  I approve of having general standards or a rating system based guidelines around violence, sex, vulgarity, and other adult content.  The Bible would be rated R, or worse.  I totally understand how/why the Bible would violate such standards.  There are more age appropriate versions of the Bible that they can supply.  I guarantee more elementary kids would be interested in and read a child version.  King James in an elementary…seriously?  These kids are barely learning to read.

Whether 50 shades of grey is available in a school library is totally irrelevant.  If your child wants to read that book or any other, it is available to them in so many places than just the school library.  Forcing it off the shelf at school will not stop a kid from reading it that really wants to.  In fact, bringing it to their attention as forbidden fruit might just be the best tactic to use to get them to read such material.  It is pretty easy to find the book on the internet or at the local book store.  So honestly, what difference does it actually make whether any book is not available in the school library?  You can't nanny your children to shield them from any choice they personally make.

Personally, I think it is up to the parents to teach their children to make their own correct decisions on what they should read and what they should leave on the shelf. This whole book banning is just for show and a political stunt.  It pushes how to raise your children onto a third party.  More effort should be spent on teaching your own children correct principles and less on relying on pushing this responsibility onto the schools or any other organization.

Serious question.  Does anyone think that banning any book at school will prevent your child from reading something that you don't want them to read?  Is a kid going to actually think, well since it is not in the school library, I guess there is no way I can read that book or any other?

[Hamilton Porter]

Florida does something stupid, Utah pays the price?

Is that how the non-scapegoating works?

[SeekingUnderstanding]

4 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Florida does something stupid, Utah pays the price?

Is that how the non-scapegoating works?

It’s Utah competing with Florida to do stupid things. 

[pogi]

6 hours ago, california boy said:

Whether 50 shades of grey is available in a school library is totally irrelevant.  If your child wants to read that book or any other, it is available to them in so many places than just the school library.  Forcing it off the shelf at school will not stop a kid from reading it that really wants to.  In fact, bringing it to their attention as forbidden fruit might just be the best tactic to use to get them to read such material.  It is pretty easy to find the book on the internet or at the local book store.  So honestly, what difference does it actually make whether any book is not available in the school library?  You can't nanny your children to shield them from any choice they personally make.

Personally, I think it is up to the parents to teach their children to make their own correct decisions on what they should read and what they should leave on the shelf. This whole book banning is just for show and a political stunt.  It pushes how to raise your children onto a third party.  More effort should be spent on teaching your own children correct principles and less on relying on pushing this responsibility onto the schools or any other organization.

Serious question.  Does anyone think that banning any book at school will prevent your child from reading something that you don't want them to read?  Is a kid going to actually think, well since it is not in the school library, I guess there is no way I can read that book or any other?

There is some truth to what you say, and I agree that trying to keep our children in a bubble isn't going to work.  I believe in a much more holistic approach.  I think it is important for parents to understand that we are not going to be able to completely keep potentially harmful materials and substances out of the reach of our children, but that doesn't mean that we should make it easily accessible in the domains that we can control for.  If I was to take your philosophy and position in an absolute sense, then any material such as porn, or any substance/drug, or weapon should not have mandated age-appropriate guidelines/restrictions for consumption or use - because if they really wanted it they could find it easy enough, right? 

I believe the right way is a more balanced approach that limits accessibility but also does as you suggest and has healthy conversations with their children about these materials or substances.   I just had the porn talk with my 7 year old last week, knowing that I was exposed to it at an even younger age.  I was careful not to present it as a "forbidden fruit" or as "evil", or even "bad", knowing that my kids will eventually be exposed to it, and will likely be intrigued, aroused, and curious by it.  So, presenting it as evil is a sure way to set them up for toxic shame for liking it.  They shouldn't feel any shame for that.  That is normal and they need to know it.  I taught him that the human body is beautiful and there is nothing wrong with being attracted to it. But I also taught him that there are safe and more dangerous ways to see or use just about everything, just like medicine.  That is why there are child-protective lids on medicine bottles, because unintentional accidents happen, and we want to limit those accidents from happening as much as possible. 

I think that a completely libertarian approach with elementary aged children is not safe or appropriate.  These are not adults with fully developed brains capable of making sound judgment.  As much as we praise liberty of choice, my kids don't have a choice about wearing a seat belt if they want to ride in my car.  Does that make me a terrible and restrictive parent?    Even if a child wanted to avoid certain materials and content in books, it may not be immediately possible to judge a book by its cover - and that is often all they have to go off of.  It is up to the district to provide only age-appropriate materials for that reason.

It is not about keeping our kids in a bubble and trying to control everything that they are exposed to throughout their lives, it is about limiting and preventing accidental and unnecessary exposure where possible, and also teaching our children about correct choices and how to respond to exposure throughout their lives, knowing that all of this stuff is accessible if they want.  But while they are in elementary, it is not that easy to find on their own, so let's not make it available in our schools if it is age-inappropriate material.

I understand that some parents may be wanting to take this to the extreme and use these libraries as a weapon in the culture wars, but that is no reason to take the opposite extreme and make our school libraries a free-for-all with no oversight or guidelines for content whatsoever. 

 

Edited June 4, 2023 by pogi

[Tacenda]

In answering the OP, it looks like the BoM could be next. Here's this CNN article about it that seems credible. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/03/us/utah-bible-ban-schools-trnd/index.html

[The Nehor]

Levar Burton, once the host of the Reading Rainbow show that many of my generation grew up watching weighs in on book bannings.

 

[InCognitus]

1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

In answering the OP, it looks like the BoM could be next. Here's this CNN article about it that seems credible. 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/03/us/utah-bible-ban-schools-trnd/index.html

If nothing else, it's a very unique way of getting people to read the Book of Mormon.

[Hamilton Porter]

8 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Florida does something stupid, Utah pays the price?

Is that how the non-scapegoating works?

Which books did Utah ban? It's not making national news.

[Tacenda]

6 minutes ago, Hamilton Porter said:

Which books did Utah ban? It's not making national news.

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/02/1179906120/utah-bible-book-challenge

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/03/utah-schools-remove-bible/

https://www.kcra.com/article/a-utah-school-district-removed-the-bible-from-some-school-libraries/44083713

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/03/utah-school-district-book-of-morman-ban

https://www.gpb.org/news/2023/06/03/utah-school-district-has-removed-the-bible-some-schools-shelves

https://www.kptv.com/2023/06/02/utah-district-bans-bible-elementary-middle-schools/

Tired of posting there seems to be so many, lol.

[carbon dioxide]

Perhaps everything should be taken out of libraries that is not related to school related stuff like history, math, science.   Religion should be taught in the churches and homes and LGBT and other political issues should discussed outside of school.   However if this is not going to happen we should look at the real world.  Kids are not wasting much of their time reading books.  They are playing video games or on their phone with Tic Tok and other social media.  If you don't like a book in a school library, don't ban it just ignore it.  Attempts to ban just bring attention to the book.   If they are ignored, the book just sits on the shelf collecting dust which is just as good as banning the book.  Yes perhaps a kid or two is checking a book out of the library but generally kids today want to be Tic Tok influencers, not book worms.

[Hamilton Porter]

38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

https://www.npr.org/2023/06/02/1179906120/utah-bible-book-challenge

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2023/06/03/utah-schools-remove-bible/

https://www.kcra.com/article/a-utah-school-district-removed-the-bible-from-some-school-libraries/44083713

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2023/jun/03/utah-school-district-book-of-morman-ban

https://www.gpb.org/news/2023/06/03/utah-school-district-has-removed-the-bible-some-schools-shelves

https://www.kptv.com/2023/06/02/utah-district-bans-bible-elementary-middle-schools/

Tired of posting there seems to be so many, lol.

I'm asking about which books conservative idiots in Utah try to ban. 

[The Nehor]

19 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Perhaps everything should be taken out of libraries that is not related to school related stuff like history, math, science.   Religion should be taught in the churches and homes and LGBT and other political issues should discussed outside of school.   However if this is not going to happen we should look at the real world.  Kids are not wasting much of their time reading books.  They are playing video games or on their phone with Tic Tok and other social media.  If you don't like a book in a school library, don't ban it just ignore it.  Attempts to ban just bring attention to the book.   If they are ignored, the book just sits on the shelf collecting dust which is just as good as banning the book.  Yes perhaps a kid or two is checking a book out of the library but generally kids today want to be Tic Tok influencers, not book worms.

I think it is unfair to generalize about an entire generation. The bookworms are also usually on their phones reading books on it. The library is there primarily to help the kids who have little parental support and can’t get access to books. I can tell stories about kids who escaped their difficult lives through school library books. Those are the kids it is there for. Keeping LGBT out of schools might make sense but to LGBT kids whose well-being is in danger discussing it outside of school a book might help them. This is why these parental reporting laws if a kid discloses their sexuality to a teacher or counselor are so horrifying. It is putting some kids in literal physical danger.

I think Orson Scott Card would be horrified at how may gay, lesbian, and bi awakenings his books have been involved in. Ender’s Game in particular. It certainly contributed to mine.

[Stormin' Mormon]

I'm really not fond of the term "book banning" in conversations like this. The phrase has been used to describe a wide range of actions from the innocuous on one end (removal from an elementary school classroom curriculum, without actually removal from the library) to the sinister on the other end (government criminalization of purchase or possession).

One end of that range is definitely "book banning" and the other is not. The middle of that range requires a nuanced approach. A broad label that covers the whole range of "book banning" actions is the opposite of nuanced and will not likely yield fruitful discussions. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Hamilton Porter said:

I'm asking about which books conservative idiots in Utah try to ban. 

There’s almost 300 of them I think. I’m not sure if there is a list online. Probably not since it varies by school district. 

[The Nehor]

20 minutes ago, Stormin' Mormon said:

I'm really not fond of the term "book banning" in conversations like this. The phrase has been used to describe a wide range of actions from the innocuous on one end (removal from an elementary school classroom curriculum, without actually removal from the library) to the sinister on the other end (government criminalization of purchase or possession).

One end of that range is definitely "book banning" and the other is not. The middle of that range requires a nuanced approach. A broad label that covers the whole range of "book banning" actions is the opposite of nuanced and will not likely yield fruitful discussions. 

Don’t worry, many are moving on to defunding libraries. It is a race to the bottom.

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is a race to the bottom.

It sure feels that way. 

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, Hamilton Porter said:

I'm asking about which books conservative idiots in Utah try to ban. 

Well you mentioned it's not national news, and I had already posted to Rain's question on which books on this thread. But here it is, it's Alpine School District in Utah County. https://bookshop.org/lists/52-books-banned-from-alpine-school-district-ut#:~:text=Alpine School District in Utah,for possible removal this fall.

And this site has interesting statistics:

https://pen.org/report/banned-in-the-usa-state-laws-supercharge-book-suppression-in-schools/

Edited June 4, 2023 by Tacenda

[Calm]

Unfortunately the banned booklist does not explain why they were banned and the blurbs are pretty tame.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Here’s another list from last year, I have no idea how accurate it is:

https://www.abc4.com/news/most-banned-books-in-utah/

Quote

Many groups such as Utah Parents United say they target these books not because of the LGBTQ+ characters and themes, but because of the “sexually explicit conduct” and “sexual conduct” that is found in these books.

If there are bannings for comparable non queer books, I think the conversation should note this and then shift to whether sexually explicit or sexual content should be banned.

I tutored a girl in fifth grade (Witchita, Kansas in 1988) who was pregnant in sixth after swearing she would never be one of those girls.  Perhaps she didn’t understand what could get her pregnant (I never saw her after fifth grade, so only heard the report).

I think there is an inherent difficulty given you have kindergartners and first graders sharing the same library with fifth and sixth graders, including many who are going through or have gone through puberty or may even be sexually active.

If by sexual conduct they mean talking about queer attraction while they aren’t banning books that talk in the same ways about straight attraction, then claiming LGBTQ+ themes, etc are not targeted is a lie or at least they are blind to their own prejudice.  

I would not be opposed to books about abuse, including sexual abuse as kids need to know what abuse is and that they have a right to be safe and ways to get help.  I wonder if there is any info out there on kids who found their first help in books.  Kids needing answers may not being willing to be public about it due to worries someone is going to ask questions, otoh books don’t ask questions.  

I also wonder if any juvenile perpetrators (2/3 of child sexual abuse is by other juveniles) got the idea to abuse from books.  Seems unlikely books would be the deciding factor, but want to examine all possibilities where possible since that is the only way to prevent abuse as much as we can prevent it.

Since I am not familiar with the discussion around what is happening with kids and sex and sexual abuse these days or any of the books and the blurbs don’t provide enough detail, I am an inadequate judge for any of this.

Edited June 4, 2023 by Calm