Bible banned in Davis school libraries. Book of Mormon next?

[The Nehor]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

Why would these lawmakers care about how the LGBT kids feel, especially wanting them to feel isolated?

Hate.

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, gopher said:

I still trying to understand why parents who object to some of these books are being vilified.  Sure, go after the politicians and advocacy groups who are using this for their own purposes.  But what's wrong with parents who want their kids to read good books that don't include profanity, sexual and anti-religious themes, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.  

I think it's mostly a symptom of the ideologies at play and the breakdown in our society's ability to deal with views we don't agree with. 

You've got to make the person doing something you don't agree with look as bad as possible.  It's like a rule or something.  Bonus points if you can turn them into a caricature while you do it.  It's also important to always compare their worst with your best, and to assume their motives are the worst while the motives of those you agree with are above reproach.

Quote

Is there really a shortage of good books for kids to read today?  I'm not in favor of banning books either, but why are so many insisting on putting adult books in our schools?  If an adult wants to read a book about a 10 year boy performing oral sex on another boy, why not put that book in the adult section of the library?  It's getting creepy to see how many adults want our youth to read some of these books.

I don't get it either.  Adults are fascinated by asking kids to read books about kids but that are meant for adults.  I think it might have something to do with adults being unable to separate their (adult) opinions on books about their youth from the kids mental and emotional abilities that they are asking to read them.

[bluebell]

On 6/3/2023 at 11:43 AM, The Nehor said:

Yep, and a lot of the people screaming at school board meetings don’t live in the district they are complaining about and/or don’t have kids in the school system.

We also see a lot of people screaming about book bannings in schools and parenting who don't even have kids, period.  There is no shortage of people on both sides of the isle who think they are the main character in everyone's story.

[provoman]

I laughed when I read the article. I was shocked the District banned the Bible; someone had the foresight to see a lawsuit if they had not.

 

This is what happens when societies allow extremist of any political/moral view to enact laws.

No one is an island. Who will speak for you, after they have taken everyone else. Give the Devil the benefit of the law, for your own safety.

 

[ttribe]

18 hours ago, Calm said:

Why would these lawmakers care about how the LGBT kids feel, especially wanting them to feel isolated?

Haven't spent any time on Twitter lately, I take it. It's obvious many so-called "lawmakers" either truly believe, or are trading on the idea, that anyone other than straight, cisgendered people are a contagion to be contained and stamped out.

[bluebell]

9 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Haven't spent any time on Twitter lately, I take it. It's obvious many so-called "lawmakers" either truly believe, or are trading on the idea, that anyone other than straight, cisgendered people are a contagion to be contained and stamped out.

How are these multiple lawmakers suggesting we "contain and stamp out" lgtbq kids?

[Calm]

35 minutes ago, ttribe said:

It's obvious many so-called "lawmakers" either truly believe, or are trading on the idea, that anyone other than straight, cisgendered people are a contagion to be contained and stamped out.

I get that they would like the LBGT issue to vanish, which means the kids are gone from the school or turned harmless (silent, no longer see themselves as queer, whatever unrealistic dream they might have.. But wanting to isolate them is different than wanting them to feel isolated, wanting to cause them pain.

I see lawmakers who are attempting to ban LBGT ideas and behaviour from schools, etc as having their focus on more the feelings of the nonLGBT community (as they see it), they want to protect (again in their view) the straights rather than make the LGBT kids suffer surely.  I think the politicians would even be happier if the LGBT kids weren’t hurt because then it would be easier to get their projects passed and enforced and kept in force.

Are all our lawmakers sadist, more concerned with hurting those they hate, delighting when these kids feel isolated or even kill themselves rather than being intent on helping or appearing to want to help those who vote them into office, presenting themselves as trying to prevent the straight kids from being sucked into the mire (in their view)?  
 

To illustrate my point (in no way do I see LGBT individuals as similar to lepers, being a disease, etc)…while many of those who locked up and abandoned lepers in leper colonies may have feared and been disgusted by them and therefore even hate lepers as individuals as well as a group, they didn’t isolate the lepers because they wanted to see the lepers suffer.  Lepers were locked up because the ones locking them up thought that would prevent others they cared about more from getting infected or even turning into lepers themselves or just prevent more lepers from being created out of nonlepers, which would cause them to shift from resource to burden (in rulers and others’ views) dragging the economy down.
 

I think most politicians are too self serving to waste time and money on being petty enough to make kids cry.   I think LGBT kids feeling isolated is an unintended consequence many don’t care about, some might even be happy about it as a nice benefit, but the primary motivation?  Seems very unlikely.  If it stopped drawing crowds and donations, I suspect it would be easily dropped and something else to promote would be found.  
 

It may seem a nitpicky difference, but I don’t think it wise to claim motivations that are unlikely because they are too easily denied and then other accusations may look less credible when they should be taken seriously.

Edited June 6, 2023 by Calm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

How are these multiple lawmakers suggesting we "contain and stamp out" lgtbq kids?

Provide an environment so hostile that they stay closeted. Also some still believe sexuality is a choice so if you can make this imaginary choice hard enough no one will make it and we will go back to the good old days when there were almost no gays and those that were about had to hide.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I get that they would like the LBGT issue to vanish, which means the kids are gone from the school or turned harmless (silent, no longer see themselves as queer, whatever unrealistic dream they might have.. But wanting to isolate them is different than wanting them to feel isolated, wanting to cause them pain.

I see lawmakers who are attempting to ban LBGT ideas and behaviour from schools, etc as having their focus on more the feelings of the nonLGBT community (as they see it), they want to protect (again in their view) the straights rather than make the LGBT kids suffer surely.  I think the politicians would even be happier if the LGBT kids weren’t hurt because then it would be easier to get their projects passed and enforced and kept in force.

Are all our lawmakers sadist, more concerned with hurting those they hate, delighting when these kids feel isolated or even kill themselves rather than being intent on helping or appearing to want to help those who vote them into office, presenting themselves as trying to prevent the straight kids from being sucked into the mire (in their view)?  

Not sadists. Sadism is not a prerequisite to want to enact genocide. I am sure they would be equally happy if the LGBT community were shot on a rocket to another star or sealed in a cavern beneath the earth. Anything that makes them go away. Some are sadists and like the pain they are causing. Some just want the “threat” annihilated.

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

I think most politicians are too self serving to waste time and money on being petty enough to make kids cry.   I think LGBT kids feeling isolated is an unintended consequence many don’t care about, some might even be happy about it as a nice benefit, but the primary motivation?  Seems very unlikely.  If it stopped drawing crowds and donations, I suspect it would be easily dropped and something else to promote would be found.  

It may seem a nitpicky difference, but I don’t think it wise to claim motivations that are unlikely because they are too easily denied and then other accusations may look less credible when they should be taken seriously.

What you describe used to be the case. The politicians used some issues (abortions, LGBT rights, guns, etc.) to rile up their base and get them to the polls so they could do what brought the donor money in and make token gestures towards the stuff they convinced the masses they wanted. Then they created a media environment that raised a generation who were so high on their own propaganda that they thought it was actually about abortion, LGBT rights, and the like. Even the politicians. The lunatics are running the asylum now and the few remaining old-school members are barely holding on to any power.

[Tweed1944]

I did a search of the catalogue for Salt Lake Public Library for Lady Chatterley's lover and it was available. 

 ""Constance (Lady Chatterley) is sexually frustrated because her husband has been paralyzed in the war and rendered impotent. She starts an affair with the gamekeeper, Oliver Mellors... the book was banned as pornography, in the U.S.A., until 1960."

The DVD is available. Is this book restricted to adults. Dangerous if borrowing and the Library staff Member is your Bishop. Does a teens library card have some restriction on what they can borrow. Now days one just shows your card o be read and then place your book under and it marks it out to you.

Most teens have their own phone. There has been an issue with them downloading porn. My daughter who is a counselor in a Christian school gives talks on consent in relationships with the opposite sex.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Tweed1944

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, Tweed1944 said:

I did a search of the catalogue for Salt Lake Public Library for Lady Chatterley's lover and it was available. 

 ""Constance (Lady Chatterley) is sexually frustrated because her husband has been paralyzed in the war and rendered impotent. She starts an affair with the gamekeeper, Oliver Mellors... the book was banned as pornography, in the U.S.A., until 1960."

The DVD is available. Is this book restricted to adults. Dangerous if borrowing and the Library staff Member is your Bishop. 

We actually had that book in my parents’ bookcases for awhile.  My uncle, the rebel, had stored his massive paperback collection at his mom’s when he moved to California and it got passed on to Mom when her mother moved into assisted living.  Dad, being practical and seeing no purpose in a book in a box, built bookcases and just unpacked them all out on the shelves as they came out of the box.  I was one day going through them looking for something to read….died of laughing almost.

Edited June 7, 2023 by Calm

[Tacenda]

Here's the latest on the topic:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50662056/after-bible-pulled-from-some-schools-lawmaker-wants-to-rework-his-sensitive-materials-law

[provoman]

11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Here's the latest on the topic:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50662056/after-bible-pulled-from-some-schools-lawmaker-wants-to-rework-his-sensitive-materials-law

Thanks for posting.

How many stories have been told throughout human history that teach 'when you try to prevent something, you become the cause for why it happens'

 

[The Nehor]

18 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Here's the latest on the topic:

https://www.ksl.com/article/50662056/after-bible-pulled-from-some-schools-lawmaker-wants-to-rework-his-sensitive-materials-law

He should really resign for not seeing this coming when he wrote the bill.

[provoman]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

He should really resign for not seeing this coming when he wrote the bill.

 

[ttribe]

Some phrase about "Play stupid games..." comes to mind.

[InCognitus]

The parent who started this whole thing about the Book of Mormon has come out and described some of the reasons for challenging the book at Kaysville Junior High. 

https://www.ksl.com/article/50663857/parent-describes-reason-for-challenging-book-of-mormon-in-davis-school-district

I saw this coming a mile away.

They said the book is "very violent" and:

Quote

The petitioner, whose name was redacted, said he or she doesn't want children reading about "murder, rape and torture, or learning that it is OK to murder somebody if God tells them to (Nephi)."

"Nephi cuts off Laban's head and his brothers are constantly beating him up. There are also the war chapters of Alma that describe dead bodies littered across the land. The Nephites and Lamanites torture and murder each other," the person wrote in his or her request for the book to be removed. "There is also burning people at the stake (Abinadi); and forced cannibalism (Moroni 9). There is also sex and visiting prostitutes. While this is framed as a sin, it is still mentioned. Further, the Lamanite women are kidnapped and raped in Mosiah 20."

No surprises there, but I didn't see any mention of Ammon chopping off the arms of the men trying to scatter the flocks of king Lamoni, and Ammon carrying the severed arms to the king (my favorite part), or the beheading of Shiz (maybe I missed it).  That one is the probably the most graphic.

Edited June 10, 2023 by InCognitus

[Tweed1944]

Numbers 31:17–18

English Standard Version

17 Now therefore, ekill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him fkeep alive for yourselves.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Tweed1944 said:

Numbers 31:17–18

English Standard Version

17 Now therefore, ekill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him fkeep alive for yourselves.

GROOMING ALERT!!!!!!!!!

[Tacenda]

16 hours ago, Tweed1944 said:

Numbers 31:17–18

English Standard Version

17 Now therefore, ekill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman who has known man by lying with him. 18 But all the young girls who have not known man by lying with him fkeep alive for yourselves.

Woah! This shows the Bible isn't always God breathed.

[provoman]

76-10-1227.  Indecent public displays -- Definitions. 

(1)For purposes of this section and Section 76-10-1228:(a)"Description or depiction of illicit sex or sexual immorality" means:

...

(ii)...., sexual intercourse, or

(2)

(a)Subject to Subsection (2)(c), this section and Section 76-10-1228 do not apply to any material which, when taken as a whole, has serious value for minors.

(b)As used in Subsection (2)(a), "serious value" means having serious literary, artistic, political, or scientific value for minors, taking into consideration the ages of all minors who could be exposed to the material.

(c)A description or depiction of illicit sex or sexual immorality as defined in Subsection (1)(a)(i), (ii), or (iii) has no serious value for minors.

 

Not sure how one could be knowledgeable of the KJV and think it would not be subject to ban or removal. 

[The Nehor]

What kind of deviant wrote this pornographic trash?

Ezekiel 23:20

“There she lusted after her lovers, whose genitals were like those of donkeys and whose emission was like that of horses.”

 

[Tacenda]

On 6/5/2023 at 7:25 PM, The Nehor said:

Provide an environment so hostile that they stay closeted. Also some still believe sexuality is a choice so if you can make this imaginary choice hard enough no one will make it and we will go back to the good old days when there were almost no gays and those that were about had to hide.

I do believe that many you know whats out there want it to go back to the fifties.

[The Nehor]

14 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I do believe that many you know whats out there want it to go back to the fifties.

Yep, while also destroying everything that made the fifties so prosperous.